3.6L IN 2000S? any new devlopments

[pk2]

Recently my 99 Box burnt to the ground.Reamaing is the drive train complete with 275 supercharged 2.5l motor.

I am contemplating the purchace of a 2000 s 3.2 with a bum IMS. Thought of transplanting my 275hp SC motor but would rather have the peace of mind of a 3.6l of similar hp.

- Dated Articals I've read here and elswhere indicate max for this car (2000s) is 3.4@ 240 hp ....yawn. Have any advances been made to facilitate a 3.6 transplant into a 2000 s? How about using a reflashed 2000 DME to avoid the edrive stuff spliced to a 3.6l.

- Can a a 3.2l or 3.4l be bored and tweaked to get me up to the magic 275+ hp # i like without undue exspence?

- Conversly, Will a 2000 s 6 speed bolt to my 99 2.5l if thats the best route.

Regards, D-

[mikefocke]

Are there 3.6s in a 986? Yes. But it wasn't simple, cheap and they were highly mod'ed engines from Flat6.

[pk2]

Thanks,.

I guess the question is, can a 3.6 go into a 2000s, i Know its done DIY on 2002 and later without to much fuss (depending on who you are) but from dated articals I've read, the best I can do is a 3.4.L.

Regards, PK

[JFP in PA]

Thanks,.

I guess the question is, can a 3.6 go into a 2000s, i Know its done DIY on 2002 and later without to much fuss (depending on who you are) but from dated articals I've read, the best I can do is a 3.4.L.

Regards, PK

Can it be done? Sure, with enough money, time, welding rod, and duct tape; anything is possible.

Some differences; DME, engine wiring harness, intake system (height), fuel system, and exhaust system. If you are well equipped, and enjoy fabrication, it is an interesting project.

[mikefocke]

What you are seeing is that the 3.4 of the same electronic control era is the easiest no fuss replacement. Anything newer and you get into custom stuff. IIRC, Pelican in the US has a chart/article on the complexities of the various replacement options.

[pk2]

THanks for the replys,

My issue is that the stock 200hp 2.5l was lacking. a little oversteer snaped back into a frihtening understeer.With 275hp supercharged 2.5, youcould practically drive around a corner wwithout touching the wheel, just the throughtal.rded over the wiring diagrams

The 3.4 is 240hp witch would be a let down, i THINK A 3.6 pushes 275+ and offers some durabbility..

Though my tools largely went up in flames,I know all that wiring like the back of my hand. And though I don't relish the thought of reiventing the wheel again,I know I can do it. Ideally, someone who has done it could give me a step by step and make my life easier.

FYI; I instaled and tuned my super all by myself.I'vs also rebuilt a myriad of porshes and bmw's in addition to v-dubs an stuff

Regards, PK

[mikefocke]

Can you get to a 3.6 from a 3.2 block? Yes you can as an example wander over to lnengineering.com and look in their modified engines section. I know it is a bit far to send an engine but it will give you an idea of what they consider necessary and the aproximate pricing.

[pk2]

Thanks,.

I guess the question is, can a 3.6 go into a 2000s, i Know its done DIY on 2002 and later without to much fuss (depending on who you are) but from dated articals I've read, the best I can do is a 3.4.L.

Regards, PK

Can it be done? Sure, with enough money, time, welding rod, and duct tape; anything is possible.

Some differences; DME, engine wiring harness, intake system (height), fuel system, and exhaust system. If you are well equipped, and enjoy fabrication, it is an interesting project.

unfortunatlly my welding rigs went up in flames with my car. I seem to recall the 3.6 trnsp[amt in later models just reqired lowering the engine mounts or somthing ,I guess to acomodate the manifold. Since it's plastic,I wonder if you couldn't go at it with a heat gun and flatten it out.(and widen to keep th airflow)

What i don't have in money I try to make up for in tenacity and clevernous.(I like to think)

Regards, PK

Edited June 13, 2013 by pk2

[JFP in PA]

Since it's plastic,I wonder if you couldn't go at it with a heat gun and flatten it out.(and widen to keep th airflow)

I really would not go that route as it destroys flow; most use special mounts to lower the engine so it will clear the engine cover.

[pk2]

Hmm, Not somthing I'm dying to do but Ive done a lot of work in the hvac industry and In general it's simply the cross section of runners or plenums that matter and not having to tight a bend in the runners. Even a reduced cross section will work, it will take in the same amount of air, it just robs a little horsepower. In the HVAC world it will howl.

Just an alternative I thought of to avoid some of the formentioned costs. I've got lots of experience in plastics, a small machine shop and acesse to lot of state of the art rapid prototyping resources. So I dunno, 6 of one half dozen .... need to find out exactly whats involved and can't find any dyi's before 2002.

Regards, pk

[txhokie4life]

My understanding is that the motormounts are lowered something like 1/2-1" -- and it's literally a spacer. So not as radical as is might seem.

Mike

[pk2]

Ya that's all it should take accept the 3.6's are drive by wire and a 2000 is cable throttle so it's gets messy..I agree though dropping the engine a bit shouldn't be a big deal, theirs only 3 motor-mounts (I think)

Regards, PK

Edited June 14, 2013 by pk2

[Loren]

Ya that's all it should take accept the 3.6's are drive by wire and a 2000 is cable throttle so it's gets messy..I agree though dropping the engine a bit shouldn't be a big deal, theirs only 3 motor-mounts (I think)

Regards, PK

All 2000 (986 and 996) and newer are eGas (drive by wire).

[pk2]

thanks, always the man I like to here from. I just test drove a 99 986 with with a 3.6 + 6speed.(+ drilled rotors,and supposedly from a carrera, frnt suspention) who and how someone had the gumption to do such a thing,no clue but it was throaty and above 3.5k rpms, blew like a hurricane.

How'ed he do that I wonder. No diy's I've found

Regards, PK

[pk2]

Hello,

I'm found a 99' I'm contemplating purchasing.It somehow received a 03' 3.6L motor. Is such a motor as susceptible to the same IMS failures (or "D" chunks) as the standard 2.5L & 3.4L's?

Also, rated HP of said 3.6L?

Regards, PK

[JFP in PA]

Hello,I'm found a 99' I'm contemplating purchasing.It somehow received a 03' 3.6L motor. Is such a motor as susceptible to the same IMS failures (or "D" chunks) as the standard 2.5L & 3.4L's?Also, rated HP of said 3.6L?Regards, PK

Yes, all M96/97 engines are similar and are susceptible to the same issues, some more than others.

[pk2]

Wonderful (thanks)

So an 03, 3.6 is no more safe than my 2.5l. i might as welll fit my S-charged 2.5 with an IMS retrofit and feel no safer than a stock 3.6L?

Regards, PK

Edited June 22, 2013 by pk2

[mikefocke]

You could "bore" the engine to 2.7 and put in stronger sleaves. Then do the IMS and have only 20 of so other known failure causes to prevent.

You are dealing with an engine designed 20 years ago with materials from the same era.

[JFP in PA]

Wonderful (thanks)

So an 03, 3.6 is no more safe than my 2.5l. i might as welll fit my S-charged 2.5 with an IMS retrofit and feel no safer than a stock 3.6L?

Regards, PK

The 2.5L M96 were know for weak cylinder walls, particularly near the bottom (hence D-chunking). We are not fans of taking any M96/97 above atmospheric for a variety of reasons, and the 2.5L least of all.

[pk2]

Well crap, whats the right engine? what can be done with any of them to m^ake them at least as reliable as ...a ford fiesta.I drove the ell out of supercharged 2.5 with no problems...till it went up in flames with my house.I figured a 3.6 must be beefed up and something you could drive without sitting on tenter hooks.

Regards,PK

Edited June 24, 2013 by pk2

[JFP in PA]

You can make a lot of power out these engines without resorting to blowers or hair dryers. Raby has posted some big numbers for 2.9L engines that are pretty reliable, and I understand he has been working on something in the 3.8L range that is a killer as well. But in either case, he has gone through the entire assembly and relpaced all the weak bits first (rods, pistons, cam followers, cylinder liners, etc.) to make them substantially stronger. Even stock 3.2L or 3.4L are a big jump over a stock 2.5L.

[mikefocke]

It takes money to get the kind of motor you want. Either buying used or one that has all new improved parts.

Figure ~$6-10k used and then add another ~$1-2k for doing updated parts before you install it (RMS, IMS, AOS, water pump, clutch). oklahomaforeign has a 2002 3.6 they will sell you but understand you'll get ~80k miles on it for your ~$10k.

Or spend 2 to 3 times that for the full bore Raby everything improved version that approached 400HP.

[pk2]

It takes money to get the kind of motor you want. Either buying used or one that has all new improved parts.

Figure ~$6-10k used and then add another ~$1-2k for doing updated parts before you install it (RMS, IMS, AOS, water pump, clutch). oklahomaforeign has a 2002 3.6 they will sell you but understand you'll get ~80k miles on it for your ~$10k.

Or spend 2 to 3 times that for the full bore Raby everything improved version that approached 400HP.

THanks, it seems p cars of any sort are alot cheaper in the midwest than here on the left coast.

Can't quite see putting a $10k motor in a $10k car, so I'm looking for what really needs to be addressed, build it to beat my mothballed 275hp 2.5fL Something I don't feel likeI have to stay to close to home.

PK

[pk2]

You can make a lot of power out these engines without resorting to blowers or hair dryers. Raby has.. gone through the entire assembly and relpaced all the weak bits first (rods, pistons, cam followers, cylinder liners, etc.) to make them substantially stronger. Even stock 3.2L or 3.4L are a big jump over a stock 2.5L.

Been around here for awhile and hadn't heard but of rods and piiston going souuth,

PK