Turbo Coolant T Pipes gone - what else to replace?

[darrinsmith]

Hi

My turbo dumped all it's coolant out the back of the engine on Thursday, bummer.....

I had the aluminium upgrade done in December 2008 at the local "dealer" at a cost of nearly $5K (which admittedly did include replacing the water pump, all the pencil coils and the horns and $60 for a loan car!)

We were advised to replace all sorts of little pipes and hoses (I have an invoice with a full page of parts!) but they didn't do either of the awful 95510632350 or 94810603551 as I suspect it was deemed "too difficult" and they probably "looked OK"!

While they're in there again, are there any other pipes etc, on the back of the engine they should look at.

I'm tossing up a starter motor also, as the car is a 2003 with over 220,000km on it, so I can't complain really I guess.

There's estimating about $1250 this time (all parts and labour at "trade").

I'm not expecting any further "goodwill" from them or Porsche Cars Australia though, especially as they saw fit to refuse the warranty claim on the spoiler on my 996 turbo as it was 2 weeks out of warranty!

(The salesman always wonders why I never buy any cars from him!)

Thanks for your input!

DS

[wvicary]

I can only suggest they inspect the coolant expansion tank.

[darrinsmith]

Thanks.

I've decided I'm going to do the job myself. While I'm in there I'll do the starter as well, as it does screech every now and then.

I don't see a DIY for the starter. I assume it's just remove connectors and a couple of bolts and replace?

I'm also replacing the coolant tank cap as a precaution, but I'll pressure test the whole system when I finish.

Thanks

DS

[bigbuzuki]

It may be worth while looking at upgrading the plastic t piece with a metal substitute.

I've read about people sourcing metal tees that will fit the hoses.

Will give a more "permanent" repair if anything.

Edited May 22, 2013 by bigbuzuki

[wvicary]

There is also a plastic pipe that runs from the front of the intake to rear and joins in a "T" fitting which then runs to each cylinder head, that "T" fitting fails often.

[darrinsmith]

Thanks

Definitely off to the plumbing store to source brass T.

The front one wvicary is talking about looks like crankcase ventilation. Ill look at that too.

Might take some pics of the starter removal seeing as how theres no DIY.

Got the whole top off this arvo, took about 1.5 hrs.

[darrinsmith]

You'll love this.... so I go to remove the rear upper retaining bracket from the aluminium pipes only to discover that I can't.

The stealer had reused the old superseded part (94810605903) rather than the new 2 piece bracket (94810625900/94810626900), AND had the balls to charge me for the new brackets!

Sent off a "please explain" e-mail....

Can't figure it out, it would have been such a PITA to replace with the old part, the new one would have been much easier...

Oh Well, I'm really glad I decided to tackle this job myself now...

[darrinsmith]

Sorry guys one more.

So I got the top aluminium pipes out (the bottom one is still giving me trouble!).

It looks like the dealer used some sort of pink stuff on the seals (or else the coolant has made it pink).

What should I be using in re-install, I though it should be a lubricant like the porsche grease or similar.

This stuff was like a sealant. Those top pipes were super tough to get out!

Thanks

DS

[wvicary]

I use a product called Rubber Grease to assembly o-rings, it's even safe for brake components such as calliper pistons seals. I think the company name is APR.

[voodoocat]

I recommend to replace secondary air injection valves, both sides. If those fail and stuck open, secondary air pump might fail which is another 200 bucks each. You can do it later, but it's a 5 minute job with hoses in the back out of the way.

Also expansion tank as the other poster mention, the plastic weld will break and eventually leak coolant.

[RLHornbeck]

I recommend to replace secondary air injection valves, both sides. If those fail and stuck open, secondary air pump might fail which is another 200 bucks each. You can do it later, but it's a 5 minute job with hoses in the back out of the way.Also expansion tank as the other poster mention, the plastic weld will break and eventually leak coolant.

I just lost one of my air pumps, to include most of the plastic wheel exploding. Is there a way to confirm the valves are ok and plastic did not get down into them without disassembling everything?

[voodoocat]

That's what happened to me, both motors disintegrated internally. The fan vanes have very tight tolerance.

I think the valve will eventually give out, stuck open and exhaust back flows to the fan. Then, your brand new fan might break again.

Or valve might stick close, overloading the 40A motor.

Motors are about 250'each, valve is 120 each. I recommend to change all 4. Then no worries about it.

I was chasing CEL for over a month until I replaced all 4, resetting and coming back on again.

I think a broken piece jammed my valve open. You should clear the connecting hose so nothing is stuck in there.

[RLHornbeck]

That's what happened to me, both motors disintegrated internally. The fan vanes have very tight tolerance.I think the valve will eventually give out, stuck open and exhaust back flows to the fan. Then, your brand new fan might break again.Or valve might stick close, overloading the 40A motor.Motors are about 250'each, valve is 120 each. I recommend to change all 4. Then no worries about it.I was chasing CEL for over a month until I replaced all 4, resetting and coming back on again.I think a broken piece jammed my valve open. You should clear the connecting hose so nothing is stuck in there.

Thanks

[darrinsmith]

Job done

Did the starter and thermostat as well.

Check out my brass t pipe fix in the DIY section.

Cheers

DS

[Nylon]

Thanks for the trail of info on this. Thinking the pink stuff is not sealer but escaped Pentofrost. I have one that has turned into a pretty good leaker. I can see pink at most fittings clamps on both T's in back.

[Nylon]

I was laying underneath mine for about 30 min trying to figure out if I could band clamp my leaking line from above. I can almost get an arm up to the Ts from below but even if I could... no way to get a band clamp on and tight with one hand. Looking at it from below I realized that taking of the intake...getting at it from above and probably breaking a multitue of plastic and gasket, that I would have a heck of a time clamping it if at all. No room for screw driver at 90 degrees to plumbing. Would be nice if I could reach in from drivers side wheel well. The wheel well looks like layers and layers of trouble though. My line is leaking between the rubber to metal connect below the lower T.

Also anyone know where these lines run to from the bottom T? They snake around the power steering pump then down the frame under the driver side and disappear.

[voodoocat]

If you are talking about the coolant T behind/below firewall leading to the turbos, I was able to blind reach from top, basically lay on top of engine and stick my arm in there. From bottom, you can pick and poke the with a stick but can't grasp it. Besides, you need to further push up to remove them.

The hose that feeds driver side turbo is reachable from bottom.

You need to get a cable operated hose clamp opener. I got craftsman tool, but it opens barely not enough to loosen the clamp, get a better one.

When you remove the T, actually 2 T's connected making an H, observe the hose and T orientation and pre assemble the new units identically. And don't forget to pre install the bands (!)

[deepraver]

Basically all of the plastic lines on the inside of your engine compartment exposed to heat will crack at some point so when you see them, replace them. As for when the coolant pipes go you can count on that coolant having dripped into your starter and run down the back to the transmission main seal. You will be replacing both in the next year unless you got all the coolant out of those at the time of pipe replacement. Your cadran shaft will go so when you drop the tranny, might want to look at that. When it fails its like a hammer to the chest around 70mph.. scary.. feels like the tranny has fallen out and it will keep doing this on hard accelerations.. makes you think its a tranny mount, but its the shaft.. Your battery under your driver's seat will go at some point.. the horn maybe.. the back of a seat may pop off.. good luck gluing the parts back on.. a couple of hooks at the base will break on you.

[ALEV8]

Looking at the coolant Ts now......not seeing much but the intake is still on. All i'm seeing is some pray on the passenger side cat......remove intake? I ordered EVERYthing mentioned to replace while back there from ECS Tuning. Maybe it will get fixed this wk, but I doubt it.

Edited November 30, 2014 by ALEV8

[dan87951]

If you plan on keeping the car a long time I would source the T's in aluminum and not the OEM plastic. 

[ALEV8]

At this point I'm really looking to transition to a 964 or 993. Max 2 yrs more.

[Stueysv8s]

This is perfect, try and source these from marine shop.

As for secondry air pump fans , you don't need them, replace the fuse, pull fans out, clear the valves and pipe( real tight job).

Move on. No codes

[hahnmgh63]

Stueysv8s, are you saying you pulled the SAI pumps plugged the lines and you don't get any codes?  I did the same on my Audi and had to get some custom software to code out the SAI faults I was getting. That would be great if this wasn't required for the Cayenne.  I do believe they are a real waste of space and don't really do much for emissions.  Kind of a complicated way of beating the stupid emissions testing procedure as all of that extra equipment of the SAI system only works for a minute or two on a Cold startup to get extra O2 to the Catalytic converters for warmup on the Cold start.

[khowell]

While you're in there also replace the purge valve.  $90 or so, and it will eventually crap out, too.  Simple repair while you're there (not hugely difficult with the manifold on, but certainly easier to do it while the manifold is off).....

Edited December 4, 2014 by khowell