FabSpeed Race Exhaust - No PreCats - UK Spec Car - Problems

[dopsonj]

Hello,Firstly I’m Jacques, based in the UK in East Sussex & new to the world of Porsche.I own a 2002 Porsche Boxster 2.7 986 in black which was purchased completely stock 2 months ago now. 45k miles – FPSH etc. Since then the only modification I have done is to de-snorkel and have just progressed onto the idea of an exhaust system – mainly for the noise & very minimal power gains.I have spent a lot of time reading the web, mainly US Boxster forum’s and I came across the FabSpeed Race Exhaust for the 986 – Great I thought, exactly the product I want – Sounds good, reasonably priced and feedback on the company and product has been top class.I went ahead and purchased the product from Vivid Racing who drop shipped it directly from FS to me here in the UK and it turned up on Friday 4 days after leaving the states – Very happy!Now, here’s where things go wrong…. After watching many videos, FabSpeed own video included

(Quote: “Factory OEM Porsche complete exhaust featured on every 2000-2004 Boxster USA and worldwide”) I was under the impression that my UK spec car would have 4 cats – 2 pre (combined with headers/manifolds) and 2 cats in the pipe between headers & mufflers. Or my car would simply have 2 cats as part of the headers as I know there was a change over years where the cats were reduced.In hindsight I should have looked under my car sooner, but I was convinced by what people had said and what I’d seen from Fabspeed that I should have been ok… But after jacking my car up I am surprised to find that I don’t have cats located in my headers, but simply 1 pair located in the pipe between muffler to header with an o2 sensor before and after on both sides.So now I have this lovely race exhaust that I cannot fit because I would be left with no cats – no cats means I won’t pass emissions laws at my next annual check and also my car will through up the CEL light – Which can be disabled but the engine doesn’t behave as it should if I’ve read correctly?So this is what I thought I had:

This is what I actually have:

I didn’t want to change my headers just yet, mainly for monetary reasons but now I have been put into a position where if I return the exhaust I can attempt to fight my case that the description is incorrect and try and get them to waiver the 25% restocking fee, but then I also lose out as I have to pay for shipping and I’ve lost money on import.So ideally I’d like to keep the system and find a way around it… Here are my suggestions so please feel free to make comments!1) Modify the FS system to have cats – There are two locations I believe it might be possible to put in cats – these I would purchase from eBay (200 Cell I think?) and I would also get the company putting them in to make holes for the O2 sensors – See the picture for locations I believe cats could be installed. Questions – Is this possible? Will it completely ruin the sound of the exhaust?

2) Purchase used headers with cats from eBay – Hard to find and often expensive – But this keeps OEM & conforms to emissions laws. Only issue – Will 02 sensors that are currently connected reach to cats located in the headers? I can’t see why Porsche would make the wires longer then they need to be, so I suspect I might have to buy new o2 sensors as well? (This point is important so if someone can confirm that would be great)3) Purchase aftermarket headers with cats. A company in the UK produces headers with cats for the Boxster at £600 a set… Which is cheap, which worries me a little but they have the appropriate o2 senor locations so they should do the job – correct? LINKI can’t think of any other real options but I am open to suggestions please.I haven’t yet approached VR but I have had contact with FS, unfortunately they haven’t been of very much help and have simply dismissed my email and stated that I most likely have aftermarket headers.

If anyone does have a set of headers with cats - wants to sell them to the UK and is happy to declare them a minimal value I'd be very much interested :)Really I’m rather stuck and I am open to all advice and ideas, the more the better!Kind RegardsJacques

[JFP in PA]

Couple of points: Fab Speeds website clearly shows and states that this is "race only" configuration because of the lack of any catalytic converters. What you have is exactly what is described. Secondly, your car is the then standard ROW or rest of world configuration, meaning only main three way cats, no pre-cats. Third, adding back pre-cats will probably not answer your MOT requirement's, they were never designed to handle the full exhaust flow, but only to heat up quickly and aid on cold starts. And lastly, adding any cats is going to quiet down the system.

Probably your best bet is to jump for a set of the 200 cell sport cats, which will add back the emissions capability to get by MOT, which will not be cheap and will quiet down the system:

[dopsonj]

Couple of points: Fab Speeds website clearly shows and states that this is "race only" configuration because of the lack of any catalytic converters. What you have is exactly what is described. Secondly, your car is the then standard ROW or rest of world configuration, meaning only main three way cats, no pre-cats. Third, adding back pre-cats will probably not answer your MOT requirement's, they were never designed to handle the full exhaust flow, but only to heat up quickly and aid on cold starts. And lastly, adding any cats is going to quiet down the system. Probably your best bet is to jump for a set of the 200 cell sport cats, which will add back the emissions capability to get by MOT, which will not be cheap and will quiet down the system:

Thanks for your response,I knew what I was purchasing from the start, I was just under the impression my car would have pre-cats.With regards to adding pre-cats - Is there anyway to find out before purchase if it would pass emissions? The ones I linked on eBay are possibly what I'd go for but with regards to O2 sensors, would they reach as well?I may look at Mid-pipes with Cats, I assume an exhaust specialist would be able to mate the two pipes together?ThanksEdit:

These state they're MOT compatible... So this is the route I'd rather take because then it all fit together! Question is, will O2 sensors reach - If not can they be extended, or do I have any other options?

Edited April 14, 2013 by dopsonj

[JFP in PA]

Couple of points: Fab Speeds website clearly shows and states that this is "race only" configuration because of the lack of any catalytic converters. What you have is exactly what is described. Secondly, your car is the then standard ROW or rest of world configuration, meaning only main three way cats, no pre-cats. Third, adding back pre-cats will probably not answer your MOT requirement's, they were never designed to handle the full exhaust flow, but only to heat up quickly and aid on cold starts. And lastly, adding any cats is going to quiet down the system. Probably your best bet is to jump for a set of the 200 cell sport cats, which will add back the emissions capability to get by MOT, which will not be cheap and will quiet down the system:

Thanks for your response,I knew what I was purchasing from the start, I was just under the impression my car would have pre-cats.With regards to adding pre-cats - Is there anyway to find out before purchase if it would pass emissions? The ones I linked on eBay are possibly what I'd go for but with regards to O2 sensors, would they reach as well?I may look at Mid-pipes with Cats, I assume an exhaust specialist would be able to mate the two pipes together?ThanksEdit:

These state they're MOT compatible... So this is the route I'd rather take because then it all fit together! Question is, will O2 sensors reach - If not can they be extended, or do I have any other options?

It is impossible to say if the O2 sensors would reach, but the harness could be lengthened if required, as long as it is done correctly. It is equally impossible to say if they have enough capacity to keep the car in MOT spec, but they do say they are 200 cell, so they may be enough. One thing you are not addressing is that if your car has the OEM headers on it, there is also a high probability of broken header studs in your future; quite often the header studs on older cars are far too corroded to be undone, and need to be drilled out and replaced.

One option you have not seemed to consider is leaving the car alone. Most after market exhaust systems add only marginal performance at best unless the DME is reflashed, plus they are "drone prone" leading to headache inducing harmonics at normal driving speeds. You would be surprised at how many after market systems get removed because they are just too annoying to enjoy the car.

[logray]

Having been there done that, JFPs advice to remain stock are words of wisdom.

[dopsonj]

It is impossible to say if the O2 sensors would reach, but the harness could be lengthened if required, as long as it is done correctly. It is equally impossible to say if they have enough capacity to keep the car in MOT spec, but they do say they are 200 cell, so they may be enough. One thing you are not addressing is that if your car has the OEM headers on it, there is also a high probability of broken header studs in your future; quite often the header studs on older cars are far too corroded to be undone, and need to be drilled out and replaced.

One option you have not seemed to consider is leaving the car alone. Most after market exhaust systems add only marginal performance at best unless the DME is reflashed, plus they are "drone prone" leading to headache inducing harmonics at normal driving speeds. You would be surprised at how many after market systems get removed because they are just too annoying to enjoy the car.

I have read a lot about headers & bolts - It will be my local garage carrying out the work who I'm on good friendly terms with which helps out with hourly labour charges etc. If I go under the car whilst its on stands will a visual inspection tell me much about the condition of these bolts? Quite a few in the exhaust system are corroded and will need replacing but some are in fairly good condition.

Most journeys in the car are 10-30 miles maximum so they're fairly minimum, for the longer ones I have earplugs handy. I'm young and should be able to deal with a bit of drone and having read & listed to videos etc. I do plan to have the ECU remapped at some stage as I am looking to also track my car on the occasion.

[JFP in PA]

It is impossible to say if the O2 sensors would reach, but the harness could be lengthened if required, as long as it is done correctly. It is equally impossible to say if they have enough capacity to keep the car in MOT spec, but they do say they are 200 cell, so they may be enough. One thing you are not addressing is that if your car has the OEM headers on it, there is also a high probability of broken header studs in your future; quite often the header studs on older cars are far too corroded to be undone, and need to be drilled out and replaced.

One option you have not seemed to consider is leaving the car alone. Most after market exhaust systems add only marginal performance at best unless the DME is reflashed, plus they are "drone prone" leading to headache inducing harmonics at normal driving speeds. You would be surprised at how many after market systems get removed because they are just too annoying to enjoy the car.

I have read a lot about headers & bolts - It will be my local garage carrying out the work who I'm on good friendly terms with which helps out with hourly labour charges etc. If I go under the car whilst its on stands will a visual inspection tell me much about the condition of these bolts? Quite a few in the exhaust system are corroded and will need replacing but some are in fairly good condition.

Most journeys in the car are 10-30 miles maximum so they're fairly minimum, for the longer ones I have earplugs handy. I'm young and should be able to deal with a bit of drone and having read & listed to videos etc. I do plan to have the ECU remapped at some stage as I am looking to also track my car on the occasion.

Not really, when you do the headers on these cars, the studs can be a total crap shoot. Sometimes the nuts come right off, other times you break most, if not all of them off.

[dopsonj]

Not really, when you do the headers on these cars, the studs can be a total crap shoot. Sometimes the nuts come right off, other times you break most, if not all of them off.

Joy! Well I am grateful for yours & Iogray's responses, have opened my eyes to a few issues and things I really should have looked into in more depth!

Lets say I go down the route of selling the FS system and instead purchasing some DesignTek mid-pipes with 200 cell cats along with a DesignTek Muffler, would that be a better option to go for?

[JFP in PA]

Not really, when you do the headers on these cars, the studs can be a total crap shoot. Sometimes the nuts come right off, other times you break most, if not all of them off.

Joy! Well I am grateful for yours & Iogray's responses, have opened my eyes to a few issues and things I really should have looked into in more depth!

Lets say I go down the route of selling the FS system and instead purchasing some DesignTek mid-pipes with 200 cell cats along with a DesignTek Muffler, would that be a better option to go for?

No idea, I've never even seen a DesignTek system.

What I am having a hard time understanding is your seemingly total focus on the exhaust system, while the OEM parts have proven very hard to better without spending a lot of time and money. If you intend to track the car, what have you done about its well documented problem of overheating the power steering system? What steps have you taken to improve the car's engine and oil cooling system capabilities? What modifications have you made to address the IMS issue? All of these issues are vastly more important for a car that is regularly tracked than an overly noisy, and often power robbing exhaust system...............

[logray]

It might sound good and be loud but even with an ecu flash dont expect huge or even modest power gains. This is from someone who spent over $6k on intake/exhaust/ecu flash on an N/A car. Now if you had a 911 turbo, totally different story.

[JFP in PA]

One of the cheapest, least time consuming, as well as most fun ways for the average driver to lower their lap times in one of these cars is some DE lessons.

[logray]

Or take out the spare wheel and passenger seat. ;)

[JFP in PA]

Or take out the spare wheel and passenger seat. ;)

That would work as well.............although the DE instructor might frown on being asked to sit on the floor :eek:

[logray]

Without instructor, of course.... :)

[adonkin]

One thing I find a bit disingenuous in FabSpeed's advertising is that they refer to the over axle cats as secondary giving the impression that they're not really needed. In our US systems with 4 cats, the ones built into the headers are warm-up cats and the ones not really needed for DOT compliance. Therefore, the over axle cats are indeed the stock primary cats although they are downstream of the warm up cats. That probably led to the confusion our friend in the UK had expecting a set of cats in the headers which would be sufficient for compliance. Not so for the ROW and not even compliant in the US with 4 cats. The FabSpeed system does it completely differently as they graft the one set needed onto the header and delete the over axle cats. And then of course they can tell you that you don't need the over axle cats.To be compliant, you could do a set of standard aftermarket headers (no cats), stock over axle pipes with cats, and your choice of muffler. The only hassle would be in welding in O2 sensor mounts in the piping before the muffler (but after the OEM axle cats) and lengthening the sensor wires. You need sensors before and after any cat and the stock 4 cat system does that with the warm-up cats.

I totally agree with Jacques. The wheezy sound of the base 986 sucks! It doesn't even come close to justify what the car really is in terms of even stock performanc!Alan in Boston2000 986 2.7

Edited April 19, 2013 by adonkin

[scooter1m]

adonkin said it best.....

 

do whatever make you happy, try things out!!!