Clutch noise

[General_Lee]

I have a 2003 C4S. Runs great for the most part but there are two issues:

1. Oil is leaking from where the transmission and the engine are connected. I got about 1 teaspoon of oil on the floor every night. I suppose this is because of a bad RMS.

2. Clutch is making noise. It happens when the clutch is almost fully engaged. The noise goes away when the clutch

The clutch, flywheel and the throw out bearing was replaced 20k miles ago. No track activities during this time.

[General_Lee]

Sorry. Haven't finished my thoughts before I hit send by accident..

The clutch is making this low-tone squeaking noise. Very hard to describe. But when it happens the car seems to lose some torque. Could it be oil contamination??

Thams

[Ahsai]

1) That could be your RMS and/or IMS leaking but coudl also be the first stage of IMSB failure! 1 teaspoon/night is quite a bit. Original IMSB? I would suggest having the IMSB and oil filter inspected before driving it further given the risks

2) Under what condition it happens? When you release the clutch and take off from a stop? Is the noise coming from the pedal assembly area or from the clutch?

Edited March 14, 2013 by Ahsai

[General_Lee]

The noise definitely comes from outside the cabin. I could hear it more clearly with my windows down. It usually happens when RPM is relatively low, 2-3k RPM, accelerating from a stop. And when the clutch is 80-90% engaged, it would creating that noise. Usually goes away after just a quarter of a second. But one time I was able to hold everything in the same position and the noise kept going for more than 2 seconds. So I'm almost certain that it has something to do with the clutch or the flywheel. I am just wondering if someone had encountered the same problem before, so I don't have to pay somebody to do an "exploratory surgery", if you know what I'm saying...

FYI, my car is my daily driver and it logged 92k miles so far. The clutch was replaced 20k miles ago, so I wouldn't expect it to go out that quickly.

[fpb111]

One of my friends had his clutch replaced ~20 k miles ago. It was replaced with a Sachs clutch kit. His clutch did the same thing as yours. Sometimes it would squeak during release at higher rpm. He decided to live with it until it slipped or showed some other sign of failure.

He just replaced that clutch kit and the DM flywheel with a Light weight flywheel and new clutch kit. The pressure plate and clutch disk looked fine. The disk measured ~8.7mm thk after ~20k miles. The pressure plate also looked ok. We figured the squeal was just that disk at certain rpm/pressures, like disk brakes squeal sometimes.

Just an aside don't slip (squeak) the clutch for 2 seconds at 2-3k rpm. That is needlessly heating up the clutch, PP & flywheel. Maybe that is why it is crying.

[Ahsai]

I have the exact same noise you described but only get it once in a while when I try to be more aggressive releasing the clutch at higher rpm from a stop. Will never have it when I drive the car normally and not racing at the stop light. The noise can't be reproduced at will. I heard a few people having the exact same issue. One person changed the clutch and flywheel and that cured the problem.

The noise is like what the whales make. I'm sure it's just the clutch/pressure plate vibrating somehow like fpb111 said. Oh I also have that loose engine clanking sound when turning off the engine (sounds like engine is over-running a bit even after turned off) so my flywheel may be marginal. If I press in the clutch when turning the enigne off, no sound at all. So I think that may contribute to the whale noise too.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Ahsai

[General_Lee]

Thanks for all of your comments. I decided wait until the next clutch service before addressing the noise issue. It's annoying but not totally unbearable.

I have an interesting observation about the oil leak. After I lost about 1 quart of oil total, and the low oil warning came on, the oil leak seems to have slowed down a bit. Down to like 2 drops per night. Is it a reliable way to tell if this is the RMS vs IMS, based on the oil level, since the RMS is in a significantly more elevated position?

I just added 1 quart of oil back (which puts the dip stick measurement back to center). We will see how that goes.

[987_RDC]

Perhaps the oil from the RMS is getting onto the clutch surface and creating slip? Get the IMS/RMS replaced at a indy.

[General_Lee]

Spent a day on the track and the noise was gone! And then it came back 5 days / 400 miles later. How annoying. So somehow the extra stress / wear / temperature fixed it but it didn't last.

[logray]

Thanks for all of your comments. I decided wait until the next clutch service before addressing the noise issue. It's annoying but not totally unbearable.

I have an interesting observation about the oil leak. After I lost about 1 quart of oil total, and the low oil warning came on, the oil leak seems to have slowed down a bit. Down to like 2 drops per night. Is it a reliable way to tell if this is the RMS vs IMS, based on the oil level, since the RMS is in a significantly more elevated position?

I just added 1 quart of oil back (which puts the dip stick measurement back to center). We will see how that goes.

You should only be adding 1 quart per roughly 700 miles according to the owners manual (at the very most, and even that is too much if you ask me). Anything more than that and you have some serious leaks that need to be fixed.

If you lost 1 quart of oil that quickly and there isn't a big puddle of oil underneath the car, I would check the condition of your coolant. Does it look like a chocolate milkshake? If so, search for intermix.

The only way you can tell if the IMS flange seal is leaking or if it is the RMS leaking is to remove the transmission and flywheel. Generally, if you do both of those things you'll want to just pay the expense to have the IMS bearing retrofit and RMS replaced. If you've already had the IMS bearing retrofit and the flange seal is still leaking, then the flange cover needs to be redone/resealed, preferably with a little flange sealant this time around.

If the clutch and parts gets contaminated with lots of oil that could explain the strange noises you are hearing.

Edited March 30, 2013 by logray