Clutch, AOS, Water Pump, Thermostat DIY Questions

[JFP in PA]

If you are going use anything on the input splines and throw out bearing collar, a light coating of white lithium grease will do the trick.

[Uwon]

I just found out that a friend of mine has the LN Engineering IMS tool kit that I can borrow. I may reconsider my options and decide to replace the IMS seal. However, I want to have a full understanding of the procedure so I have a few questions relating to my apparent confusion between the Bentley Video and LN retrofit instructions:

1. Does the locking device work on the Carrera S (3.8 L) motor? (LN does not really address this.)

2. Do you lock the left bank cams or both sides? (Bentley makes some reference to both banks whereas the LN tool kit I believe only locks the left bank)

3, What is the torque value of the 22 mm flange nut?

I would appreciate any information that may be helpful.

Thanks.

[logray]

Do consider again that if you proceed with this replacement you are not replacing any actual IMS bearing seal. if you change out the cover you are just replacing an ordinary engine oil seal (similar to any seal on any engine such as RMS, FMS, etc, which really has nothing at all to do with the health of the engine's IMS bearing). There is a real possibility a new flange seal will leak as well, or leak more or leak less. As they are prone to leaking oil, some will also apply a little flange sealant to the perimeter of the flange oring.

1. The cam locks for the 3.6L should be the same as the 3.8L. The 3.4L locks are different from the 3.6L locks.

2. Yes you need to lock both sides.

3. The proper torque is extremely important, and it requires a special tool to do so correctly. You need something similar to the pic in the link posted below - either a pass through torque wrench or a flattened socket with a crows foot. The application of sealants and thread locker in the correct quantity and location. If you use too much thread locker you risk causing damage to your IMS bearing. If you don't use enough or torque improperly it is possible the bolt could come loose and cause the IMS bearing to fail. And as far as I know the center support nut specs are the same as from the LNE retrofit kit instructions as pasted below, but you may want to refer to the workshop manual specs because the 3.8L has the non-serviceable bearing with the larger center nut.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/40538-casper-labs-ceramic-ims-bearing/page-5#entry216098

(this link is also a good discussion on why the proper torque and position and installation of the flange is so critical to your IMSB health)

"21. Once [the flange is] home, remove M6X25 bolts and replace with new micro-encapsulated bolts. Use flange sealant on bottom of

head of the bolts. Torque specs 7.5 ft/lb (10 Nm).

22. The center bearing support 12 point nut can be installed and torqued to the factory spec of 7.5 ft/lb (not to exceed 16

ft/lb). Use flange sealant (Loctite 574 or Curil T) on bottom of head of the bolt and use wicking (green) Loctite on the exposed

threads of the center bearing support/stud and 12 point nut. If the small o-ring is damaged or leaks, the use of flange and thread

sealants should prevent a leak.

23. Reinstall chain tensioners with new sealing rings and torque to the factory spec of 59 ft/lb."

Edited March 13, 2013 by logray

[Uwon]

Thanks logray for all your information and advise. As the only thing I need from my friend's LN kit are the cam locks, and he lives across the border in the U.S., I am going make them instead. Should be simple enough. And your crows foot setup solves the torquing issue for the nut. I am busy with family the next two weekends so I will not make much progress until towards the end of March.

Keep you posted.

[Uwon]

Not much time on the car since my last post.

I did drop the oil pan and was pleasantly surprised as to how clean it was.

I have had a bit of time to survey the cam locking scenario and how I am going to make the required tool for both banks. I note that the drivers side cam tower plugs are readily accessible from the rear of the car. However, the passenger side cam tower plugs are accessible from the flywheel end and access is severely restricted by the suspension cross-over frame. I also note that the locking tools per LN Engineering

shows at bottom right one tool that will lock both cams (presumably the drivers side) and a shorter one that will lock only one of the cams on the other side (presumably the passenger side as it is harder to get to). Am I right? If so, do I lock the top or bottom cam with the short tool, or does it matter?

Please weigh in if you know.

Thanks.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Uwon

[JFP in PA]

LN has included two style tools, one for the five chain motors, one for the three chain version.

[Uwon]

JFP, I am now a bit confused. logray indicated that both pairs of cams needed to be locked but I presume from LN's tool package and your answer that only one pair of cams need to be done. Am I correct? Does it matter which side?

[JFP in PA]

I'm very conservative when working around these engines; both sides should be locked.

[Uwon]

Thanks JFP for the pic. I did finally pick up the difference in the cam lock for the passanger side on the Bentley video. I'm moving right along with making my cam locks-made a dummy today out of aluminum.

Is there a place on the web that I can go to for all the torque specs so I don't have to keep asking all the time? I am now ready to re-install the oil pan but can't find the torque spec for the bolts. Can anybody help?

thanks.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks JFP for the pic. I did finally pick up the difference in the cam lock for the passanger side on the Bentley video. I'm moving right along with making my cam locks-made a dummy today out of aluminum.Is there a place on the web that I can go to for all the torque specs so I don't have to keep asking all the time? I am now ready to re-install the oil pan but can't find the torque spec for the bolts. Can anybody help?thanks.

By far, the best resource for torque specs are the factory manuals. Second best would be the Bentley manual. The sump bolts should be torqued to 7.5 ft. lb. (I prefer to use an inch pound wrench for accuracy on such low torque bolts, and tighten to 90 inch pounds).

[Uwon]

My issue now is that the cams on the driver’s side do not line up exactly to accept the cam locking tool. One of them is off by about half of the width of the slot on the end of the cam shaft. I have tested the tools and they are to speck. I have turned the crank several times in an attempt to find the right position without success. I have not released any of the chain tensioners. Any ideas? Do I dare to shave a bit off the sides of the tool?

[JFP in PA]

Before you started this adventure, did you check the cam deviation values with either a PIWIS or Durametric software to see where the cams are to begin with?

The tools should not need any "trimming" to work correctly.

[Uwon]

Unfortunately I did not check the deviation first. My original objective was to check/replace the clutch and change the AOS then things expanded from there. I should add that its the intake cam that does not line up by about half the width of the slot when I lock the crank. Do I have any alternatives at this stage other than putting everything together and testing with the Durametric?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Uwon

[JFP in PA]

Unless you want to go through the entire cam timing exercise, which requires some additional tooling, not really. Are you absolutely sure you have rotated the eninge (clockwise only) to TDC before locking it down at the crank?

[Uwon]

JFP, you are spot on! I rotated the crank clockwise several times and both banks of cams locked right in. The moral is never back up if you have gone too far-just keep on rotating.

My Porsche dealer advised me that the 22 mm IMS center nut should be torqued to 15 ft/lb. I note, however, that the LNE instructions for the smaller 12 point nut configuration only requires 7.5ft/lb. Big difference-Which is right?

Thanks again for your continued guidance. Cheers......

Edited March 26, 2013 by Uwon

[logray]

15 ft lbs is ok, read the max specs for the smaller LNE retrofit option. Do not overtorque. Use an inch pound. T wrench.

[JFP in PA]

I would also be cautious and follow LN's instructions on what to put on the bottom of the nut (LocTite 574) and the center bolt threads (Loctite "green" wicking) to prevent oil seepage.

[Uwon]

Thanks logray and JFP. I am following LNE's instructions to the tee. Loctite 574 does not appear to be available in Canada for some reason (renamed to something else that I cannot decipher or not available because of our environmental laws) but was able to get Curil-T and green wicking Loctite. Should make good progress this weekend. Keep you posted. Cheers...

[Uwon]

Now I really need help! The Bentleys video indicates that all three chain tensioners need to be released including the one under the A/C compressor. On the other hand, the LN instruction number 7 says to remove the IMS to crank tensioner as well as the tensioner on the cylinder head which has the locked cams. In my case I have both banks of cams and the crank already locked and I can release the tensioners on each side at the bottom of No.3 and No. 6 cylinders.

I removed the A/C compressor out of the way (which, on my 2006 C2S is not as bad as it has been written up to be) and there is no tensioner on top of Cylinder No. 4 as shown in the 997 PET-just another breather pipe over the right bank sprocket. See pics: So where is the third tensioner???? Has it been moved to underneath the power steering pump or the alternator.???? I want to finish this project this weekend so any help would be appreciated.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Uwon

[logray]

1. You can leave the bank 2 tensioner in (most people do). You should be fine to proceed. As long as :

The engine is pinned at TDC

Both sets of cams are locked

The bank 1 and IMS tensioners are removed

If you find it impossible to insert the new flange afterwards, then you'll need to remove the third tensioner as well.

2. Yes you can remove just the three compressor bolts and it comes right out, then you can access the third tensioner. The rear compressor bolt is easier to access when you remove the throttle body and T-plenum behind it. Then reach around with your left hand so you can feel where the socket goes in from the top between the intake plenum.

Edited March 30, 2013 by logray

[logray]

So where is the third tensioner????

The 4-6 bank 2 tensioner has an allen/hex head and a flat top, unlike the other two tensioners. (12MM IIRC?) It is right under the power steering pipe in your picture.

Edited March 30, 2013 by logray

[Uwon]

Thanks logray. You saved the day. I assumed that the tensioner was a hex nut like the others. Anyway, I have now completed the instal of the new AOS. Pretty straight forward if you remove the a/c compressor out of the way and take out the centre intake split.

Next is the IMS flange.

Thanks again. Cheers......

[Uwon]

Today I pulled the IMS flange which came out reasonably easy. It was obvious from the chewed slot on the centre post that the seal had already been replaced before presumably under warranty when in the hands of the original owner. Not familiar with all the internal mechanics of this system, I examined the area and was curious as to how oil and more important, how much oil could get into the area. So, I stuffed some clean rags into the two lower chain tensioner cavities and poured 4 liters of oil into the crankcase. Within a minute the new oil started pouring (not trickling) out of the bottom around the IMS bearing (car slightly higher at rear). It gave me the final proof that I should pull the seal from the bearing, and I am glad that I did. The bearing was full of oil and there was no evidence of any bearing grease. The bearing was clean, smooth when turning, no play up or down, nor, in and out. The one thing that I noted as odd, was that the whole bearing including the outer race and the circlip would move ever so slightly, say less than 1/2 millimeter when I pushed the centre post up hard. I rechecked this to make sure that my eyes were not playing tricks on me. I replaced the flange seal and re-installed the flange in accordance with LN's instructions.

Anybody care to comment on the slight bearing movement, or any thing else for that matter?

Edited April 1, 2013 by Uwon

[logray]

As you know the crankshaft drives the IMS tube by chain, and in turn the IMS tube drives the camshaft rotation by chain.

The reason why there is play around the IMS tube is because it is literally "floating" below the oil scraper.

If you hadn't released tension on the chains then you would not have been able to move the tube.

At the front of the engine the IMS tube is held in place by a traditional solid bearing inside the coolant/oil pump guide housing, the tube also drives the oil pump.

On the other end the tube is held by the flange that you replaced.

This is why it is critical the flange is installed correctly, the IMS bearing is installed at the correct depth into the tube, the center stud is installed correctly inside the bearing, and the correct torque is applied to the center nut.

[Uwon]

Thanks logray for your explanation. Looks to me like the Porsche designed a really Mickey Mouse system. I would assume that if that thin center stud breaks you are up the creek.....

I'm starting to put together the engine bay side of things and want to paint the A/C clutch which is a bit rusty. There is a 10mm hex in the center which I imagine holds the clutch and pulley. Is this a reverse rotation bolt?