2003 Targa roof squeeking and slow to open

[jay04v6]

Hello all- my absolute mint 996 Targa, is officially driving me nuts. Squeeking and rattling constantly. also slow to open. I have had the back access panel off and see all of the equipment, but no idea what to lube to repair the slow opening. As far as the sqeeking, can anyone suggest a lubricant or type that i should lube the rails. Thanks all

[Hoh23]

It may not be the rails. Check the seat belt housing in the back. That was what was squeeking on mine. I used a smalll peace of rubber tubing to stop the squeeking sound. It made the dring experience so much better

Edited February 27, 2013 by Hoh23

[1schoir]

A lubricant for this application that is hard to beat (although it is a tad pricey) is Dupont Krytox, in a spray form. It's an excellent lubricant that does not attract dust or dirt and to which these do not stick. It's long lasting and is chemically inert.

You can also use white lithium grease (spray or tube), but it is tacky. It won't wash off easily and is very affordable.

Regards, Maurice.

[jay04v6]

thanks gentlemen. having the krytox name will help a lot and i will purchase and use. I will also check the rear seatbelts as well. i really appreciate your responses. i will report back

regards-jay

[jay04v6]

HI All- i utilized the krytox on the rails, eliminated all squeeks and rattles. I went deeper thought and removed the back panel (inside) and the 2 panels that contain the gearing for the roof. lubricating them with white lithium grease also sped the roof closure. it seems though that the motors are still working pretty hard against the mechanisms that are pushing forward and pulling rearward the sliding roof. i ran out of time and closed it up, but my gut feel is that the next step will be to remove the cover holding the gears, and i should have visibility to what the gearing is pulling/pushing, and be able to hit that with the krytox or the grease. i am going to take pics and document for all 996 and 997 targa owners to have (not too many of us). should accomplish in the next month or so....stand by! Thanks for the responses

Also- due to all the direction on this site, and Streathers essential companion, i changed the oil and filter, air filter and cabin filter- all without drama or problems...a great weekend.

[1schoir]

:thumbup:

Regards, Maurice.

[Fixxxer]

HI All- i utilized the krytox on the rails, eliminated all squeeks and rattles. I went deeper thought and removed the back panel (inside) and the 2 panels that contain the gearing for the roof. lubricating them with white lithium grease also sped the roof closure. it seems though that the motors are still working pretty hard against the mechanisms that are pushing forward and pulling rearward the sliding roof. i ran out of time and closed it up, but my gut feel is that the next step will be to remove the cover holding the gears, and i should have visibility to what the gearing is pulling/pushing, and be able to hit that with the krytox or the grease. i am going to take pics and document for all 996 and 997 targa owners to have (not too many of us). should accomplish in the next month or so....stand by! Thanks for the responses

Also- due to all the direction on this site, and Streathers essential companion, i changed the oil and filter, air filter and cabin filter- all without drama or problems...a great weekend.

Did you ever get a chance to document this? I'm having a similar issue, but having some pics of what needs to be greased would help me a lot! :)

[jay04v6]

No- i did not document. quite frankly ii just squirted some of the dry lube on all of the rails and header (front of the car) and it seemed to help a lot. The gearing in the panel behind the rear seat is very simple. just take the covers off and slowly carefully pull the gear (s) out. wipe off the old grease (probably dry and brittle) and regrease- this does not affect any noises, it only speeds the roof opening closing. seems like it works less hard. Do not push the open close button while the cover is off, the gears go flying! The covers i am referring to have the hole for the manual open/close tool- see the owners man. Hope this helps-let me know how it goes.

[Fixxxer]

FYI - I did this tonight and it works great!  I took a bunch of photos too.  I'll share as soon as I can...

Thanks @jay04v6

[Fixxxer]

Here we go...

These photos apply to both motors.

 

Remove these three screws:

 

 

Here's the gearbox with the cover removed:

 

 

Here's what it'll look like with the factory grease:

 

 

Clean up what you can and put in new grease.  I was in a hurry, so I didn't pull the gears and I used white lithium grease.  I intend to pull it back apart soon and clean everything up properly:

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Gummischläuche]

Hi everyone!.. along with doing these fixes .. has anyone ever had to align the soft-top/linkage ??  I have to eliminate the leaks on mine ..just replaced my regulators n' such 

[Loren]

4 hours ago, Gummischläuche said:

Hi everyone!.. along with doing these fixes .. has anyone ever had to align the soft-top/linkage ??  I have to eliminate the leaks on mine ..just replaced my regulators n' such 

 

This is a Targa issue not a Cabriolet.

[Gummischläuche]

Ahh okay thanks for the heads up ! 👍

[nick Thomas]

I have a 997.2 Targa and the roof has started to judder, its slow and I hear a clicking sound also on closing it can't make the last bit where it lifts up. I had a quote from Porsche who said it will cot upwards of £3500 plus vat to take out the whole roof and replace the cables etc! Hell! there must be a cheaper way of getting the roof to work!!?

 

Any ideas would be appreciated!

 

Thanks

[1schoir]

You can at least buy some time, and maybe even get a pleasant surprise by following the recommendations above regarding using Krytox and/or White Lithium Grease.

 

The judder you refer to is almost always caused by lack or absence of lubrication or dirt contamination of the old existing lubricant.

 

The "slow" aspect you describe may possibly be caused by the increased resistance the mechanism and the gears are struggling against due to lack of proper lubrication.  The photos generously provided by "Fixxxer" can guide you to get started, along with the instructions provided by "jay04v6".

 

If it works, you can educate the dealer. :)

 

Regards, Maurice.

 

 

[nick Thomas]

Many thanks Maurice,

 

Today I have opened the covers to the motors and they look ok, I put some white lithium grease and tried them, didn't seem to make much difference to be honest. I did notice that on opening the roof the right hand motor struggled more and stopped but I don't know if that indicates that the right hand side rails are worse than the left?

 

What's the next stage? Pull the roof back 5 inches and disconnect the battery then see if I can pull the roof open? Check the rails I guess?

 

Not sure what the next step is, if anyone can advise I would be very grateful!

 

Thanks

[1schoir]

From your update, it sounds like you have to identify the rails, channels or other surfaces on which rollers or plastic pads slide and clean and lubricate those surfaces.

 

I'm not intimately familiar with Targa roof mechanisms, but some general rules apply.

 

As an example, the 986 Boxster (as well as other Boxsters) have a clamshell that is supported from underneath by two arms (left and right).  Those support arms are attached to the underside of the clamshell and the other end of the support arms terminate in a steel ball that is installed at a 90 degree angle to the arms.  Each steel ball (one left and one right) is pressed into a plastic rectangular "shoe" which is inserted into, and which literally slides back and forth in, a horizontal metal channel as the clamshell goes to the up or the stowed position.  If that channel or the plastic "shoe" is not lubricated or gets contaminated with dirt, it will manifest itself reliably with a judder and a slowing down of the thus struggling mechanism.  As soon as you clean that channel and the plastic shoe and lubricate those parts, the difference is shocking.  

 

I cannot overemphasize the effects of dirty and/or non lubricated parts on these mechanisms and, if you are able to locate the equivalent channels on your Targa and clean and lubricate them, I am reasonably confident that you will be pleasantly surprised at the effects.  At the very least if lubrication does not ameliorate the situation at all you will have narrowed it down to a mechanical or component part failure.

 

Here is a photo of the type of channel and parts I was describing, this one from a 986 Boxster.

 

Regards, Maurice.

[nick Thomas]

Many thanks Maurice,

 

I spent today taking off the motors and pulling them out you can see a toothed motor edge that fits in the a bar that powers each side of the roof. The teeth are worn pretty badly and the grease had turned to a paste which does not help I guess. Looking at the motors teeth it looks like they will  have to be replaced, so two new motors look like being purchased!!

[1schoir]

Glad that you are making progress in diagnosing the problem.

Are the electric motors needed part # 99662422100 at about $750 each?

If that's the case, you can either buy new motors or have those rebuilt.  There are shops which can just replace the defective toothed gear(s).

 

Regardless of the approach (new or rebuilding) you have to make sure that the electric motors are not laboring unduly (because of lack of lubrication or misalignment of any of the parts) or they will wear out prematurely again.  Your 997.2 is probably not old enough to justify thinking that the teeth wore out from overuse.

 

Let us know if you make any further progress.

 

Regards, Maurice.

 

 

[nick Thomas]

Thanks Maurice, Looking at the motors I cam to the conclusion that the clicking sound was the motors trying to move the cable but as they are worn they are just spinning probably due to dirt and sticking roof. I can't get to the cables to lubricate them though pretty much impossible!

 

If I could find someone to just replace the teeth then great but I doubt it!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[nick Thomas]

Hi Maurice,

 

Sort it now thanks for your help!

 

Took out the motors and they are worn right down due to the grinding paste inside the cable/motors.

 

I tried everywhere to get the motor toothed gear replaced but I spoke to 6 different places and I was told that Porsche have patented the "bevelled edge" toothed gear and although the motor will last for ever as its only used when the roof is opening the toothed gears get a huge amount of wear but are not replaceable due to Porsche not making the part available! So you have to end up buying new complete motors at £586 each here in the UK, bummer!

 

If you want the whole job done then its around £5000 to remove the roof and replace everything! Its not really cost effective for most Porsche owners I think so once I find a company who can replace just the toothed gear we will be able to do the work and replace just that part for peanuts!

[1schoir]

That's excellent work!

 

Very predictable of Porsche to force owners to buy complete units, instead of just protecting their patents and making the parts available at a reasonable profit.  Perhaps you might find used motors from junkyards in the UK or here in the U.S., with the caveat that they should be of very recent vintage or low mileage.

 

I guess the valuable lesson here is to include cleaning and re-lubricating the gears inside these motors with the proper lubricant to minimize wear.  Add another one to the list!

 

If you ever succeed in your quest, keep us updated.  I'll supply the peanuts! :)

 

Regards, Maurice.

[nick Thomas]

Yes annoying Porsche won't make the parts to replace just a simple rotor, the motors never die as they only in operation when the roof is moving so hardly get used, makes no sense in changing the whole motor! In fact the motors are very similar to A4 sunroof motor (only takes one) they cost £87 each not £586 each! I think I've been had!

 

If I can get them rebuilt I will they are many more 996 Targa than 997.2 that I have.

 

We shall see!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[Gummischläuche]

Porsche also designed the mechanism to "hand-grenade" along with the window regulators ...(if you force it) .

hell .. if a rear window cable slips as you are putting top-up or top-down  , the sync is OFF and ...CRaK! 🤪

[Targaguy]

On 3/20/2020 at 1:49 PM, nick Thomas said:

Hi Maurice,

 

Sort it now thanks for your help!

 

Took out the motors and they are worn right down due to the grinding paste inside the cable/motors.

 

I tried everywhere to get the motor toothed gear replaced but I spoke to 6 different places and I was told that Porsche have patented the "bevelled edge" toothed gear and although the motor will last for ever as its only used when the roof is opening the toothed gears get a huge amount of wear but are not replaceable due to Porsche not making the part available! So you have to end up buying new complete motors at £586 each here in the UK, bummer!

 

If you want the whole job done then its around £5000 to remove the roof and replace everything! Its not really cost effective for most Porsche owners I think so once I find a company who can replace just the toothed gear we will be able to do the work and replace just that part for peanuts!

Maurice, you were mislead by someone. Porsche did not patent the gears simply because Porsche did not invent nor build the roof motors. Look on the side of any roof motor and you will see one name -- Siemens. They make all the sunroof motors for the German and Japanese automakers. I have personally rebuilt two Targa roof motors and purchased a used one with a worn gear. I replaced the cable drive gears for about $12 and they now work perfectly. The steel drive gear that contacts and moves the cables is not curved when new. They get worn to a curve over many years of use. Also, there should be no grease of any type on the cables. They are installed dry by the factory. However, many shops or owners add grease to help the problem, not knowing that they are making the roof move slower over time. How do I know? I disassembled my Targa's cable drive area when I replaced the side curtains and "parking tubes" (after an engine fire) that hold the rear curtains when the roof is open. The cables are not designed for grease, but they can be dry lubed with spray Teflon lubricant (PTFE). They only contact the gear as the upper and lower cables pass by the gear in each motor, so twice at any one moment during operation for each cable. The rest of the path is simply a guide tube with no pressure on the cable downstream of the gears. Upstream, the cables push or pull the roof panel via steel guide tubes until they attach to the sides of the roof. They are under considerable pressure as they push the roof closed, which is why all 993 and 996 Targa owners describe the roof opening quicker and smoother than it closes.

 

I also found a way to access 24" of cable in hand to aid in cleaning the cables. No one has ever mentioned this on any Porsche forum that I have found, so I may be the first to discover this little known secret. I have taken numerous photos of my method and it really is not difficult. I'll upload as soon as I can. I have even put a magnifying glass on my cables when I had them free of the tubes and found that they were jammed solid with, wait for it... curtain fabric! Yes, Porsche's desire for an aesthetically pleasing hatch area (and to protect the roof guides from debris or from curious rear seat passengers' fingers) caused our now famous gunky cable problem. It is not dirt, but small fabric hairs that get caught in the twisted wires that form the cable, which are then wrapped by a spiral steel wire, which is what the gears grab and move along. And how did I remove this mass of fabric stuck in my cables? With fire! I will go into detail when I upload photos. Now if only I could patent my method... I'd be rich!