2002 C4S Water Pump Question

[dsnow]

I have a 2002 C4S and have read that the water pump should be replaced regardless at 60,000 miles. I have 67,000 miles on the car and was considering at the next 15k service which is at 75,000 miles. What is the reccomendation of this forum? Should I do now or wait?

Thanks

soutahc4s

[JFP in PA]

The water pumps in these cars use a composite impeller, which eventually begins to break up. When this happens, small particles can get jammed in small water passages, particularly inside the cylinder heads, causing hot spots and potentiallycracks. Aftermarket pumps with metal impellers are not a solution as when they age and begin to wobble, as all water pumps do, the metal impellers tear up the engine case.

So the water pump on the M96/97 had gone from being a “repair item” (replace it when it breaks), to a “maintenance item” (replace it before it fails). Based upon your mileage, you are in the window to put a new one in. This will also give you the opportunity to replace both your coolant mix with fresh, and consider upgrading to a 160F thermostat at the same time (an excellent mod for these engines that run entirely too hot).

[White987S]

Do it now. And include a new thermostat, serpt belt, and full coolant flush. Great insurance. And be ready for Spring.

[Ahsai]

+996

I just did the pump and low temp thermostat recently as a preventive maintenance. My car is '03 with only 55k miles. Even at that low mileage, it makes some grinding noise when spin by hand.

[jimmy3530]

I'm also going to be replacing the water pump + LT thermostat before spring. I'll be buying the parts and going to my local mechanic to install them. I also want to provide the Porsche coolant. Any idea how many 1 gallon jugs I'll need for a complete coolant flush?

Thanks!

Greg

[JFP in PA]

Year and model? In general, the cars hold about 6 gallons of coolant mix total, but it varies by year and model configurations,

[jimmy3530]

Sorry...of course! 2000 Carrera 4 996.

It's a 50/50 mix right...so if I provide 3 gallons, I should be OK right?

Thanks again!

[JFP in PA]

You should be fine with 3 gallons of coolant and 3 of distilled water. Pre mix them outside the car, and if you have access to one, use a vacuum fill unit.

[jimmy3530]

Ouch! I was just quoted "about $1200" from Porsche (Arlington, VA) and a little less from my indie to do the water pump. The indie did say, that that price included a new thermostat and serpentine belt. Still....

I want to tackle this job...seems easy enough...I just don't like the "supporting the engine" bit, as explained in DIY Loren's writeup.

[Ahsai]

Ouch! I was just quoted "about $1200" from Porsche (Arlington, VA) and a little less from my indie to do the water pump. The indie did say, that that price included a new thermostat and serpentine belt. Still....I want to tackle this job...seems easy enough...I just don't like the "supporting the engine" bit, as explained in DIY Loren's writeup.

The support engine part is easy. Just jack the engine at the strongest point (see Oriental express post on putting the car on jack stands) using a wood plank/hockey puck. You only need to raise the engine something like an inch to release its pressure exerted on the engine support bracket that's bolt on to the car frame via the engine mounts. Edited February 5, 2013 by Ahsai

[dsnow]

Thanks for all of the advice.

soutahc4s

[Ahsai]

BTW, this is a pretty good video to get the idea (except the sealant part. If surfaces are properly cleaned, sealant is not needed).

[perryinva]

+ 1 also. $1200 for WP, coolant, belt & T-stat is crazy money to me. I did all that (+ a lot more,) at 47k miles on my '02 last year for : Real Porsche WP, Suncoast $250, LT T-stat Pelican $70, coolant, Suncoast $22/gal, and serp belt Pelican $25, so less than $400 in parts. (plus I bought the Airlift vacuum kit, exact same one as the Porsche, plus fittings for any car possible for about $120 on Amazon, what a GREAT tool as long as you have a compressor with decent tank) If that was all I had to do, it is easily done in less than a day, assuming you can wrench, and have the right tools. (2 of the WP bolts ARE a PITA to access w/o the right depth sockets, you've been warned). For me, an $800 payday is pretty good. My pump was find except for the slightest play in the bearing. But that composite impeller had been sitting in coolant for over 10 years, and the new WP are 4 revs newer..

[jimmy3530]

Agreed...a good job for a saturday...couple of questions though...

1. I have one of those small pancake type air compressors used for nail guns...would that do the job with the airlift. Its a pretty small tank.

2. What are the right depth sockets

3. So, no silicone on the gasket? Seems like cheap insurance.

4. Lastly, what do you mean that the "new WP are 4 revs newer"?

Thanks! Confidence is growing.

[Ahsai]

Agreed...a good job for a saturday...couple of questions though...

1. I have one of those small pancake type air compressors used for nail guns...would that do the job with the airlift. Its a pretty small tank.

2. What are the right depth sockets

3. So, no silicone on the gasket? Seems like cheap insurance.

4. Lastly, what do you mean that the "new WP are 4 revs newer"?

Thanks! Confidence is growing.

1) Most likely not. I have a 20 gal, which kicked on continuously at the end of the vacuum draw

2) I used 1/4" sockets for all the 7 bolts on the pump. I used a 3/8" drive semi-deep socket for final torque on all 7 bolts. Please see post #15 http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=737700&referrerid=32590

3) Please don't. Can block coolant passages if oozed out

4) I think that means 4 revisions newer than stock

[perryinva]

Ahsai got them all correct. I have a 15 gal (I think), but it is the high pressure Dewalt which pumps the tank to 185psi, and had no issues what so ever. You use the air to make vacuum via a venturi to suck out the air, so it runs continuously for maybe 30 seconds only. I don't think a pancake will do that. You need 1/4" drive regular and deep, with short extensions. Since there are so many different sockets out there, I can't be more specific. Use 6 point ones. That last bolt in the corner is a royal PITA, only because access is so tight. Do NOT use any other sealant. Make sure you get the new metal gasket with the WP & T-stat.. It is coated with a sealant material, and is all you need. You MUST torque the bolts. The torque is very low. OTTOMH, I don't recall the exact numbers. Yes, the current 996 pump is 4 revisions later than the original WP. Porsche doesn't just throw a new rev # on for the heck of it. I ASSUME the composite material has changed (it is a different color than the original) and the bearing, as it looks a little different. Do not use the 997 pump, there have been documented fit issues for some. Good link provided by Ahsai.

Also, and this just "depends", the hoses can be a very difficult to remove, even with the correct hose clamp tool he shows in the link, which is a nice cheap must have tool. Got mine on Amazon for around $20. Some have had to cut the hoses in order to get them off the T-stat or pump. I bought the hoses online, as they are like half what you pay at the dealer, and my dealership has to order them anyway and replaced them (since I bought them), but was able to get mine off without cutting, and since I was doing my AOS anyway, the hose was easily exposed. I willl say that none of the hoses I replaced looked like they needed it at all. They were firm, clean and not soft.

See also : http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-forum/729561-proactive-replacement-of-water-pump.html

and http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-forum/730667-changing-out-those-old-motor-mounts-well-worth-it.html

for some pics and info on other easy to do, well worth it items "while you are in there".

Edited February 6, 2013 by perryinva

[Ahsai]

+1 on what perryinva said. For the hoses, they feel like they're GLUED to the metal flanges. You need to break loose the surface between the hose and the metal. You can use a pick or something similar. Be careful not to mar the metal or cut into the hose with the pick though. Just insert the pick and try to go around the hose perimeter to break the surface, then just twist and pull, it should come off. I only disconnected three hoses for complete coolant drain and water pump and thermostat replacement. Each hose took me only a few minutes.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Ahsai

[JFP in PA]

+1 on what perryinva said. For the hoses, they feel like they're GLUED to the metal flanges. You need to break loose the surface between the hose and the metal. You can use a pick or something similar. Be careful not to mar the metal or cut into the hose with the pick though. Just insert the pick and try to go around the hose perimeter to break the surface, then just twist and pull, it should come off. I only disconnected three hoses for complete coolant drain and water pump and thermostat replacement. Each hose took me only a few minutes.

Today's tool-tip: Spend about $9 and get yourself a hose removal tool (this one is by OTC and sold by Amazon):

Slide it into the hose end, and a quick slide around the fitting circumference, the hose is loose and undamaged. Works on any rubber hose held on by a clamp.

[Y2K911]

Superb tip JFP. Your reputation will no suffer and the same for Ahsai and Perry in VA. Good stuff guys and thanks!

[JFP in PA]

Glad to be of help...................

[Ahsai]

+1 on what perryinva said. For the hoses, they feel like they're GLUED to the metal flanges. You need to break loose the surface between the hose and the metal. You can use a pick or something similar. Be careful not to mar the metal or cut into the hose with the pick though. Just insert the pick and try to go around the hose perimeter to break the surface, then just twist and pull, it should come off. I only disconnected three hoses for complete coolant drain and water pump and thermostat replacement. Each hose took me only a few minutes.

Today's tool-tip: Spend about $9 and get yourself a hose removal tool (this one is by OTC and sold by Amazon):

Slide it into the hose end, and a quick slide around the fitting circumference, the hose is loose and undamaged. Works on any rubber hose held on by a clamp.

Hey, that's exactly what I used! :)