Engine rebuild and P1539 and P1324

[phil53chevy]

Just to be sure might not be a bad idea to check the fuel pressure .Based on Lograys experience the injectors are probably a good idea .Did you replace the AOS as part of the rebuild ?

I have afuel pressure tester . that was my next check.

[phil53chevy]

+1 to checking fuel pressure and for quantity. The harbor freight A/C manifold kit works perfectly for both functions and is cheap.

When you say you got misses when spraying around the FI area, did you install new orings and gaskets for the intake riser and manifold? Did you use the correct torque and new micro encapsulated bolts on the manifold and risers?

there were only new gaslets and bolts for the intake, there were no gaskets for the riser between it and the head. Am I missing someting ??

+1 to dropping the engine to do the injectors. The problem with doing it from the top and removing all the intake is you risk introducing more intake leaks! (been there done that when I did an AOS, not fun).

thanks 987-RDC- can anyone tell me if they will fit my 996 engine. If so, I'd like to try them...

I believe any of the M96/97 injectors are backwards compatible. I think I remember reading the newest ones available on engines up until they switched to DFI will work, however I can't recall my sources. I also remember rt.org member 1999porsche911 who used injectors that were not porsche specified (read HIGH flow), and his car ran fine, although I think he was also running a few pounds of boost. ;) FWIW, I'm running one generation below the latest (they are white colored) and they work perfectly. I think the only difference between those and the 3.8L ones are flow rate. The white ones are the injectors designated for the 3.6L and my TRA are quite steady around 0.97 for both banks.

>

Any one have a pic of a properly installed injector and clip? thanks.

The new design is slightly different than the original. The 996 MK1 clips will not line up to the new style injectors without modification to them. When I installed mine I thought that it was important to retain the clip to "hold them in place", however I later saw an engine where this wasn't done and they were just "floating" for lack of better term (but they were all installed at the same depth). Well they actually would not float if they are seated. What I believe is important is that they are all installed the same way (either all the way down or all the way up, and they are fully seated), dont forget to lube the orings, I used tire sealant IIRC. Mine are all the way 'up' and clipped in as you see in the pic below, and I've seen them installed all the way down with the clip just used as a "spacer" without any modifications. Both engines perform flawlessly.

As you can see I dremeled small slots above the existing slots so that they would fit around the injector and the flange on the rail. Edit: and forgot to mention the new injectors don't have those fiddly plastic guides to worry about.

[logray]

there were no gaskets for the riser between it and the head. Am I missing someting ??

Yes qty one between each riser and head, a metal gasket. Part number 996 110 103 50 and number 25 in the pic below...

http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/996-99-05/107-10.php

[phil53chevy]

Well that sounds like a problem and they were not included in my pelican gasket set. The injectors, though too small for the 3.6, do not seem to be leaking at o-rings. I have no gaskets on the head to intake riser. Funny, was running well at start up, then fixed variocam and now rough idle and misfire on cyl 1,2,3 after 15 minutes of running and engine warms up.check fuel pressure first. Will drop engine again ( getting good at this ) replace injectors, orings, and install gaskets !!!! Report back

[Dharn55]

No gaskets on the head to intake risers? It has been a few years since I had my engine apart but I am pretty sure I remember gaskets. Let me take a look at the manuals. If they are missing this would certainly be an area for leaks.

[logray]

Doug I got it covered... a few posts up... p/n 996 110 103 50, metal gasket between intake riser and head.

[logray]

There are many gaskets not included in that set.

Head gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, those intake riser gaskets, among a few others are not in that kit.

I literally went page by page in PET and recorded every single gasket, oring, and wasker and ordered them. I ended up with some i didn't use but if i found one on the engine I took off and didn't order it, I ordered one and replaced the old.

Unfortunate the Porsche kit doesn't include all the gaskets, it would make life so much easier.

[phil53chevy]

Thanks Doug. I'm checking fuel pressure and going to drop the engine.

[phil53chevy]

There are many gaskets not included in that set. Head gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, those intake riser gaskets, among a few others are not in that kit. I literally went page by page in PET and recorded every single gasket, oring, and wasker and ordered them. I ended up with some i didn't use but if i found one on the engine I took off and didn't order it, I ordered one and replaced the old. Unfortunate the Porsche kit doesn't include all the gaskets, it would make life so much easier.

I am ordering the gaskets. Was surprised when I disassembled as there were not any...or so I remember.Usually very particular about not throwing out any old parts untill job completed

[phil53chevy]

I ordered the intake to head gaskets today from pelican. they said "oh yeah:" they are not in the kit. my bad ".

987_RDC was kind enough to sell me some used 3.8 injectors at a more than fair price. Doug Harness helped me figure out that I had installed the variocam plunger upside down, Logary pushed me towards the vacuum leak scenario which, with no intake manifold gaskets seems ..well.. obvious now !

dcdrechsel - thanks for the smoke suggestion - got cheap and used the carb cleaner approach.

I think by Monday I'll be engine out and in and no more CEl's

Thanks to all

[Dharn55]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you. I remember the teething problems when I had my engine back together after the intermix fix. I think I dropped the engine 3-4 times. Had the pulse sender go bad and it was corroded in. I had to drop the engine and take off the trans, then beat the sender out with a hammer, also took some cutting on the darn thing. Then had the problem with the expansion plugs on the cams which took a couple of drops.

Next summer I will drop it again for the ISMB, chain tensioners and a few other things.

Do you have a lift or are you doing this on jack stands like I do?

[phil53chevy]

jackstands, but getting really fast at it. Not too bad. have two floor jacks, one under engine, oune under trans and it comes out and in fairly easily. I just take my time so I dont nick any wires and the such. My biggest complaint is how to get the darn thing out without it bleeding all over the garage floor. it just wants to make a mess everywhere..then absorbant dust, etc..just a mess.

[txhokie4life]

Just a thought -- and I'm assuming most of the bleeding is fuel, coolant and PS --

find something to plug the coolant hoses -- and figure out a way to seal off the fuel and PS (rubber gloves and some zip ties might work there).

rubber or cork plug about the ID of the coolant hoses?

heck maybe even a baggie and zip ties/hose clamps tightly around the hose ends?

been awhile since I've pulled a M96 engine.

Mike

[phil53chevy]

mostly coolant and ps fluid. two upper radiator hoses and the two lower heater hoses underneath. I think ill try the baggies and zip tie approach.

its not horrible, just messy and unlike other engines; BMW, ford, chevy, etc... where you can drop the lower radiator hose in a bucket and catch it all.

Now if I were on a lift ?????

[logray]

A pain to do on jack stands isn't it.

I use about 3-4 5-gallon paint buckets and just have them ready to put under anything that decides it wants to leak.

The paint buckets are nice because when you are done you can put a reusable lid on them to keep the cats and dogs from getting curious.

I loosen some of the hoses with the bucket directly underneath. (wear safety goggles)

A few smaller buckets always ready to catch smaller drips.

For the really messy jobs, I have a shallow 3' x 4' clear storage tub that I put under the entire engine or wherever it might be leaking from.

ON a lift you'd have telescoping catch basins that you can move up and down, and they are on wheels and attached to a self contained or remote basin.

Edited January 11, 2013 by logray

[987_RDC]

A cheap ATV jack from horrible freight and some 2x4s makes it much easier. Just a suggestion.

[Dharn55]

The first time I dropped my engine on jack stands I think it took 8 hours or so. By the third or fourth time it was 3-4 hours, you just get to know each step and the tool required. Mine is a C4 so there are a few extra steps for the front drive.

One of the biggest challenges is that with the car up high enough on jack stands (which tales a few steps to get it that high) my motorcycle jack won't go high enough so I have to do it in two steps. I use pieces of 2x12 with bricks between them under the engine, lower it onto cinder blocks under the exhaust manifolds, then take out one of the 2x12's and the bricks and lower it the rest of the way. Maybe for next spring I will figure out a better way, but a lift would sure be nice.

[phil53chevy]

got it out in 2 hours. took my time. caught all of the juice. Finally have a system to get it up high enough on jack stands and still be able to take off the two rear front of wheel well palstic so i can get the two suspendion supports out without moving jack stands twice. removed a little more efficiently this time, with buckets and oil pan, etc. please look at attached pic.

should head to manifold gasket go "hump side" ? up correct ?

[logray]

Nice work. I could be wrong but I think it goes up.

That being said, on this particular gasket, I don't think it would matter which way you have it.

[phil53chevy]

Replaced injectors and upper and lower intake gaskets. Reinstalled engine and fired up, idles perfectly but rotten egg smell bank 1( passenger exhaust).

10 minute ride, back to house, idling and boom ..CEL

P0300, random misfire

P0301, cyl 1 misfire

P0302, cyl 2 misfire

P0303, cyl3 misfire

P0134, 02 sensor circuit no activity dtetected. bank 1 sensor 1

digusted, clear codes, go to bed.

get up in AM and start car. idles fine go for ride. no CELs, rotten egg smell. 10 minutes later all codes above plus flashing CEL ;

P1319 misfire emmissiion related

P1313, cyl. 1 misfire emmission related

p1314 , cyl 2 misfire emmission related

P1315, cyl 3 misfire , emmission related.

P1128 oxygen sensing'

P01301 o2 sensor circuit, bank 1 sensor 1

So its a bank 1 problem correct ?

o2 sensor and maybe bad cat ?

No clue at this point

Puntull

[dcdrechsel]

How was the fuel pressure and volume ?If I remember correctly -rotten egg smell is a failing cat .So yes it's bank 1 without a durametric hard to pinpoint much further than you have .

[phil53chevy]

fuel pressure was 50 psi

[phil53chevy]

volume was....well forgot to close one of the caps on my guage and was covered with a heavy stream

[phil53chevy]

Gonna have to round up a dirametric...i would be guessing from here on without. will check condition of bank 1 cat regardles.. hope it's plugged up

[logray]

Sorry to hear this...

I have to believe you are dealing with something simple at this point. Everything internal is new and I'm guessing the DME is just getting some bad data somewhere, perhaps there is still a problem, but I'm guessing it is minor at this point. You are on the home stretch.

Good idea to check for a bad cat.

If you swap the O2 sensors between cats (remember they are different pre and post cat), do the misses follow? I bought new O2 sensors on Amazon for about $70 each.

Also might make sense to unplug the MAF in case that is feeding DME bad data... safe to drive without that, without the MAF it shouldn't cause misfires, but it won't run 100%... at least if the misses continue you can rule that out.

In addition to possibility of exhaust being plugged up, maybe the intake is plugged up...

Did you idle the whole time or did you go through the revs, if you idled, perhaps your IACV is bad (ohm it out), and is causing air starvation (opposite problem or intake leak, and rich running). Or maybe air filter is clogged/etc causing rich.

It is also possible there is still a bad vacuum leak somewhere causing lean running. Example: brake booster, SAI, FPR, EVAP purge valve/line, AOS line, AOS, etc. etc. etc.

Did you install a new AOS?

Flashing CEL with emissions misfires are not good, want to keep from running the engine as much as possible.

I guess another possibility is variocam in bank 1, but without any variocam codes I would not look there first.

It sure would be nice to have a Durametric, then you could compare values to set points.

Maybe take a few days away from it, clear the mind.... Come back and it will be more obvious what is wrong. I had to do this a few times during my rebuild.