lpg

[Lexus62]

Has enyone experience with LPG on cayenne turbo ?

fuelprice is killing my wallet.

In my country the politics don't like carlovers

thx :)

[Gerlewis]

Im in the middle of deciding for my Cayenne S.

check out www.lpgforum.co.uk

Apparently the cayenne has soft valves, so im looking at 'valve saver' as part of the installation.

Keep me posted on your decision making!

[JFP in PA]

When considering a “non-conventional” fuel conversion, you need to first calculate the all in costs for doing the conversion, and then calculate the payback period to recover your out of pocket expenses. Quite often, this conversion ends up not making any sense on that basis.

A second consideration it the availability of the new fuel type; some have found post conversion that long distance travel becomes problematic as you need to route your trips around the fuel source infrastructure locations.

[Richard Hamilton]

My brother had it done on his 2004 Cayenne Turbo. The company he used made a bit of a hash of it to be honest, and it didn't give full power on LPG. He eventually got it sorted out by Hilton Autogas in Wolverhampton, where they reprogrammed it and fitted larger injectors. After that, it was no problem. He had the doughnut tank in the spare wheel well, and only had a range on lpg of about 150 miles. He ended up buying a storage tank for home, and buying in bulk!

He sold it a couple of years later and bought an X5, which Hilton converted for him. They made an exceptionally good job of the installation.

[Gerlewis]

who did he use first Richard?

here is a good calculator:

http://www.autogasyorkshire.co.uk/savings-calculator/

[Richard Hamilton]

PM on it's way.

[Roli Savvaris]

Hi,

I bought mine used. The LPG was fitted by a company previously called TASSO and now they are called Global Auto Gas. It had a manual lubrication system which I paid another 150 pounds to install an automatic one. No problems whatsoever and don't forget this is a turbo cayenne. When I went to another Gas fitter they told me that there was a better lubrication system but I just didn't want to fork out another 200 pounds since I already paid 150 recently. The only "problem" I am having with the car is that it consumes some oil but I undrstand that is because my left turbo probably has a leak. I am not going to fix this leak since the cost is 1500 pounds plus labour (350 because of a friend mechanic).

Fuel economy is BRILLIANT.

I get about 20 miles per gallon on the motorway, and since lpg is cheaper it works out similar to 35-40 mpg in comparison to a petrol car which is great since many normal diesel cars do around 40mpg and they are much smaller, less powerful, and uglier than this beast.

Best car I have ever had by a huge difference. Worth getting the turbo version as it also drives like a PORSCHE and can beat 911 careras including the S but not the 911 Turbo. Not that I race anyone, but sometimes this extra power is handy, and the fuel economy of the turbo and non-turbo versions are identical.

Don't forget, the turbo comes with many extras and doesn't cost that much more than the other versions.

Conclusion: Every time you fill her up, you'll have a smile on your face because it will cost you as much as a NORMAL car.

Regarding petrol pumps, you will get used to filling up at your local stations and for example there are 3 around the area I live in London. It also runs on petrol just in case. You will end up paying for some petrol as the engine starts up on petrol in the mornings for about a minute or so but the cost is barely visible on a monthly basis.

My advice: Go for it, you will enjoy every second of it!!!!!!!!! Unless you hardly drive your car, or just commute for 2 miles a day when the engine is cold.

[Gerlewis]

Mines booked in to be done on the 1st October. I will let you know how it goes :)

Im also paying a bit extra for valve lubrication.

[clarksongli]

two things to point out here:

1. LPG has less energy content than gasoline.....about 25% less actually

2. We bought not just Cayenne's, but Cayenne TURBOS.....if i wanted good MPG i would have bought a 4cyl....i bought a CTT for big power, large tow capacity, and space.....do i like paying money for gas? No.....but i pay to play....not i hate more than people who complain about gas prices that own an SUV.....

[Gerlewis]

two things to point out here:

1. LPG has less energy content than gasoline.....about 25% less actually

2. We bought not just Cayenne's, but Cayenne TURBOS.....if i wanted good MPG i would have bought a 4cyl....i bought a CTT for big power, large tow capacity, and space.....do i like paying money for gas? No.....but i pay to play....not i hate more than people who complain about gas prices that own an SUV.....

All I heard was 'blah, blah, bah blah' ;)

[RFM]

Basically you have a point there, but are well aware of the fact that in the UK the price of gas is risen now to a multiple of the US price.

[Richard Hamilton]

We pay about GBP1.45 per litre over here. That works out to approximately $9.00 per US gallon.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Richard Hamilton

[Roli Savvaris]

LPG has a higher octane rating than unleaded. If you get it done properly, and make note not everyone knows how to do a right job on a cayenne turbo, you will get the same thrill from lpg as with petrol. any difference from 450bhp to 442bhp,... not at all. Moreover, if you want to race it you can always switch the button to petrol if 8bhp counts for you, only you'll be spending twice as much money for that extra 0.01 seconds of acceleration.

I can confirm that running within the limits on a motorway although I do about 17mpg (UK gallon) this equates to 34mpg due to the lpg costing half as much per litre of fuel than petrol.

This means my supercar is doing better mpg than an X5 3 litre diesel car,... and anytime I like I put my foot on the gas and beat the 911 and 911S on LPG!!!!!!!!!!! I don't mess with the cayenne turbo S as it is more powerfull or the 911 turbo, but not many cars out there come close to this car which becomes a beast in sport mode with or without pcm on.

Ocassionally you will get a few souped up subaru sti's showing off but look inside and you are driving a porsche in comparison to cheap cloth seats and you can still beat them.

The only thing is that you need to visit the petrol station twice as much, so having a 100 litre tank in the boot makes sense, you will miss half your boot but it is worth it. Unless you carry boxes and need the boot space.

Make sure the installer has installed lpg on cayenne turbos before and see for yourself if you can that no difference in power is there. There is a youtube video of a Polish turbo doing 275 km/h on lpg which is the max you would also get on petrol. That guy knows his stuff. The turbo version needs special injectors to handle the 450bhp, and it needs a professional installation. The lpg was done on 2009 on my CT and runs so smoothly like it was done yesterday. You need to service it once a year. You need to buy the lubricant from e-bay in Germany as it is much cheaper than in the UK.

[Gerlewis]

I can confirm that running within the limits on a motorway although I do about 17mpg (UK gallon)

What model do you drive Roli, and do you measure this from the on board computer, or from the petrol pump? as I get 23/24mpg in my Cayenne S - according to the trip computer.

PS - Are you using flash lube machanical flash lube / electronic / multi point electronic?

Also, do you have a link to the good price lube?

Edited September 27, 2012 by Gerlewis

[Roli Savvaris]

I drive a 2005 Cayenne Turbo (450BHP)

The on-board computer showed 20-22 mpg when I was driving on lpg however I had to do the actual mpg by filling up the lpg a few times and writing the mileage and litres used each time.

Here is the data I got from 5 refills after the fuel was full from the start.

44.21 litres of lpg = 9.724 UK Gallons did 143 UK miles. This was 14.7mpg which also equates to 19.216 litres per 100 km and due to the lpg costing 50% less than petrol this means that 29.4mpg equivalent or in km consumption it equates to 9.6 litres per 100km.

I will continue the rest of the data without the above explanations:

Refill 2:

72.95 litres = 16.05 UK Gallons did 209 miles. Therefore 13 mpg (UK figures for all as it is a UK car, the US gallons are different so you will need to do some maths for that,... a converter online will help) or in km it spent 21.7 litres/100km. Due to the 50% cost works similar to 26miles per gallon or 11 litres per 100km.

Refill 3:

55.98 litres = 12.31 gallons did 167 miles. Therefore 13.57 mpg or 20.8l/100km. With the 50 price cost reduction of lpg it equates to 13.57mpg or 10.4 litres/100km

Refill 4: 47.58 litres = 10.46 G did 182 miles. Thus 17.39 mpg or 16.243 l/100km. With 50% less costs is similar to 35mpg or 8.1 litres per 100 km

Refill 5: 68.93 litres = 15.16 Gallons did 218 miles. Thus 14.37 mpg or 19.657 litres per 100 km. Taking into account that lpg costed me 50% less than petrol then the figures equate to 28.8 mpg or in other words 9.8 itres per 100 km.

The best figure was refill number 4. All depends on how you drive your car. It can be smooth and on cruise control only motorway. It can be a beast on a German no limits motorway (doing 275 km/hour) or it can be anything in between with commutes in cities, stopping to buy smokes while the aircon keeps the passengers happy etc.

Most of my journey was on a motorway although I did visit a few cities here and there, but didn't do the stopped car with aircon mentioned above as I wanted to see the normal running costs.

I took pics of all receipts which included prices and litres, and at each fillup I took a pic of the mileage.

On top of all the above, lpg is much greener (environmentally friendly) than petrol or diesel. Some figures are 95% down on pollutants and others on 30% down. Check the internet and you will see the clear difference of particles etc. This was the reason that the City of London exempted LPG vehicles from paying the congestion charge for some time, and they still offer free parking permits for eco-friendly vehicles (annual parking permit costs about 120 pounds sterling)

Moreover, having driven diesel vehicles in the past, I can confirm,... I always used to stink of desel. everything smelled diesel to me, even my hands after refilling as in the UK you have to fill the car yourself. Add the terrible diesel engine noise which did my head in and gave me headaches in comparison to the 0 noise engine I hear from this beast (on idle,... not on using it like a sports monster which noise is good) then you will understand that moving from a 320merc diesel to a 4.5l twin turbo Porsche is something like moving from hell to paradise in some wierd kind of way.

thumbs up for Porsche engineers.

Long live the Porsche.

[Roli Savvaris]

Oh, also for the flash lube, initially it was a mechanical flashlube system but you have to manually check when to top it up. Now it is an automatic flashlube make, which has a red led which lights up when it needs 400ml of flashlube.

Apparenly there is a more advanced one from what one mechanic told me. It is again a flashlube automatic make but it has a pump built into it and is the new generation type.

[Roli Savvaris]

Battersea Autogas I & C Investments Ltd 1 - 4 Elcho Street Battersea, SW11 4AU Telephone: 0208 871 2233 Email: batterseautogas@gmail.com Web: www.lpg-car-conversion-london.com Systems Installed: BRC Prins Romano Bigas LovatoNLP OMVL Systems Serviced: BRC Prins Romano AEB AFCAldesa Auto-Gaz Centrum Bedini BigasEmmegas ICOM KME Landi Renzo LimaLo-Gas Lovato Marini Necam NLPOMVL Star Gas Stefanelli Tartarini VialleVoltran

[Roli Savvaris]

I only bought a couple of European adapters from the above people at Batersea Autogas. They seemed to know there stuff more than the previous people which installed the manual and automatic systems and made some comments about the way the flashlube pipes not being installed properly but I cannot know if it is just for a new installation or from their experience although they seemed to be honest but I simply refused to pay another couple hundred pounds after putting the standard automatic a few weeks before that!!! They said they also did many cayenne turbo conversions, but seeing is believing and I do have the original papers showing the initial lpg went into the vehicle in 2009 and the engine is running perfectly (Thank God) without any noises or anything else.

[Roli Savvaris]

By the way the best site that I know for UK approved lpg installers and petrol pumps etc is the following:

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/

[Gerlewis]

Thanks for the detailed replies. Ours is due to be done on Monday - so I will let you know how we get on.

PS. I get 24mpg on motorway, 12-15 around town.

Ger

[Roli Savvaris]

Good luck Ger and happy savings both for your pocket and as a carbon footprint :)

[Gerlewis]

oh one more thing, where is your filler cap, and your gauge mounted? - I want it to look as inconspicuous as possible.

[Roli Savvaris]

Fuel filler cap is mounted on rear side bumper down low while the fuel gauge is located where the cupholders were located, now used as a keyholder instead. I think it would have been nicer to have both in other locations. I have seen some people filling beemers from a proper fuel door, although I don't know how they managed to fit both in there!!!!!! Also the use of cupholders is more important than being able to hide a little nice fuel gauge (and the lubricant led on top of it)

If I could, I would have tried to use the a/c console,... there are a few buttons there that have no use whatsoever,... I don't know if it is easy to get them wire and place the led light and gauge there and how complicated that would be,... maybe some members like Loren could guide you to as if that thing is possible.

[Roli Savvaris]

I will take a couple of pics for you and post them. I'll need about 10 mins because I will also have to resize them for the forum.

[Roli Savvaris]

A few notes on the pictures:

The tap on the filler has a lockable key, this option is only suitable for UK bayonet fixtures. This is very useful because I had the simple turn lock one which can be removed by kids on the street. That didn't happen to me but somethinng else did. I had removed mine while filling and placed it on the fuel pump at the petrol station and forgot to put it back on. Had I not gotten a new one dust would go inside and obviously something bad would happen. This one needs a small key to remove and as you remove it the tap stays on the key which is on the same keyholder as the car keys so there is no way I will ever forget it at a petrol pump,... (I hope not!!!!!!!)

I removed the engine cover so you see how they have done the piping for the lubricant: apparently this is wrong as was explained to me by the Batersea Gas people. I have a feeling they are right because with normal driving the lubricant lsts long however when I use the car as a beast it seems to me that it sucks up all the juice,... something do do with the pipes and vacuum as was explained to me,... if you find out any more on this topic from your installers please let me know,...

I took a pic of the injectors and how they are installed,... as noted before these are special power handling injectors due to the 450bhp. These were upgraded from the previous owner as the initial ones couldn't handle the full power.

Next, the lubrication kit is fitted under a side engine compartment cover where the battery terminals are so that they fit nicely. All I need to do is unscrew 2 plastic screws easily with a key to fill the lubricant when the red led lights up. You will also notice a silver small box back there,... that is where you control how much lubricant you want released through the system. It was set on 8 from the lpg euro gas company when they fitted it but I reduced it to the number 4 seting as I wanted to economise the lubricant. Some Polish installer said the lubricant is of no use at all as lpg is much cleaner etc,... but I say it is better safe than sorry so even half the dose is good enough for me.

Again good luck. I am looking forward for your comments and any feedback you get from your installers. :)

Take care,

Roli