clutch/ims job

[hucqym]

So I do find my engine revving especially climbing hills of san francisco and makes me shift to low gear. Looks like I need a new clutch. Pressure plate commonly replaced as well? I guess I could even do the IMS/RMS while at it. Anything else?

Usually do a lot of my repairs with my boxster on rhino ramps. I suppose this one will want the car to be level and so Ill have to use jack stands, right?

[JFP in PA]

Along with the clutch (pressure plate and disc), throwout bearing, all new fasteners, IMS, RMS, check the flywheel for twist, and do the AOS while it is out in the open.

[onejstchillin]

Same issue on my 02' S. any idea what this will cost at an Indy. I'm in Los Angeles

[hucqym]

Thanks JFP,

onejstchillin, I am doing it myself so its just parts cost (less than 1K for the list mentioned above) + ten times the repair time + ten times the fun. Havent found what an indi would charge.

[onejstchillin]

I haven't done a repair that complex before so I'm going to have to defer to a pro. Let me know how it turns out. FYI Dealer wants 2400. ouch!

[Trey T]

These days, I'm trying to find time to attack project. A yr ago, I took mine to a local dealer and was quoted $2700 for RMS replacement that was basically costs:

-17 hours @ $145/hr

-the rest was special tool fee/tax and the RMS.

For me to do this, I would have to find the time and spend a few hundred bucks on the RMS and the installation tool. When I found out that the rear of the crankshaft doesn't have a backing for RMS to sit like other flat engine, I was pretty pissed off!

Here's the question for you all, what is the effort (in hours) for this job? is it really a two day job?

Edited August 15, 2012 by Trey T

[JFP in PA]

"Special tool fee"? Sounds like they are charging you to buy the $400+ tool to do the job, very poor form for a shop to charge the customers for their tools..............particularly when you can fabricate the tool from a $3 CPVC pipe union.

Edited August 15, 2012 by JFP in PA

[Trey T]

They asked ~50-75bucks for the RMS. The special tool fees wasn't significant, something like 20-30bucks.

[onejstchillin]

Found a shop in Pasadena Ca. will do a full clutch kit for $1,700 with 15% discount for first time customer = $1400. Ill let you know how it turns out. Ill have to ask if the kit includes an RMS and IMS.. I'll admit that I don't know what an RMS is gotta Google it in a bit.

http://www.hautomotive.com/index.php

Edited August 18, 2012 by onejstchillin

[JFP in PA]

Price on the clutch is pretty good, but I would ask what it includes parts wise and what brand parts they are using; I doubt it includes the IMS, which is a nearly $600 part by itself, much less its installation. The RMS is a $20 part that only requires a few min. to install.

[onejstchillin]

Thanks Ill inquire.

[mikefocke]

You want the Porsche part for the updated Rear Main Seal.

You want to know, for the InterMediate Shaft Bearing, if they are using a Pelican kit (like the original Porsche one as Porsche doesn't offer any IMS parts) or the LN kit.

Once they have the work done to replace the clutch, they have easy access to the RMS and IMS so any labor change for doing those should take that into account.

[tony_986]

Thanks Ill inquire.

I just had the shop in Pasadena do my RMS, IMS, & clutch. Scientific Automotive on Walnut

Clutch was just getting down to the rivets.. 87.5K

They use Porsche OEM parts, and LN Engineering IMS bearing retrofit.. mine was dual row bearing

Very pleased with their workmanship and communications.. Talk to Jack the owner.

They are very articulate..

Took the car in Monday morning, picked it up Tuesday evening.

Owner called me Monday evening of other items they discovered.. Coolant tank leak, Oil filler tube leak.

When I picked the car up, all defective parts were shown to me and all worked performed was explained.

The clutch feels awesome, drove home in rush hour traffic everything was great..

Your car will be in good hands..

PM me if you like, I'll give you my cell phone # if you like..

Tony

[onejstchillin]

Thanks Tony. Had it done at House Automotive in Pasadena. Car feels good.

[hucqym]

so I am stuck on these stupid flywheel bolts. I have a 1/2" electric impact wrench from harbor freight that is rated for 230 ftlbs max torque and impact torx bits and still they dont budge. I got SIR215 toothed tool from pelican (based on some old post on renntech that claimed it would work as a flywheel lock) but I guess its only useful with the engine on the stand. I guess i'll try to make a flywheel lock out of a punched metal plate or something. Anybody else found the flywheel bolts PITA???? tips?

[JFP in PA]

As for "in-car" flywheel locks, by far, Porsche makes the best unit (part # 000-721-953-81) which is also an extreme rarity: It is inexpensive (around $20).

As for the flywheel bolts, never had an issue; 1/2 inch air impact pulls them right out.

[hucqym]

shoot! that came a tad too late ! Managed to use that SIR tool to keep it barely locked in place and took it out with a 24" breaker bar.

[hucqym]

okay so I am about to remove to IMS bearing today. I have read the instructions multiple times. One thing that isnt really clear still is the point about loosening/removing the chain tensioners.

1) Firstly - I have my chain sprocket held in place using the set screws that come as part of the replacement bearing kit. The bearing cover and bearing itself is seated within the bore of the sprocket. I dont see how loosening the chain on the sprocket is helping me in removing the bearing cover and/or the bearing itself?

2) Assuming 1 is answered, some instructions mention "remove" chain tensioners and others mention "loosen it a bit". Loosening suffices?

3) Is tightening the chain back to spec just a matter of driving the chain tensioner all the way in again?

4) With Engine at TDC and cam lock installed on both camshafts, would I still be able to get the solid metal part of the sprocket behind the cover holes to install the set screws to keep the intermediate shaft in place?

I am mostly following the instruction in Wayne's "101 projects for your porsche bosxter" book. Any tips/clarification on those steps based on personal experience?

[JFP in PA]

I’m going to probably start a firestorm here, but here goes: Stop following Wayne’s procedure’s and download a copy of the LN/Flat Six instructions:

http://www.lnenginee...imsretrofit.pdf

We have seen too many issues with using the set screw approach on DIY installs. The LN/Flat Six procedure works every time, if you follow them to the letter.

I know that Wayne was trying to come up with a cheaper alternative method and component’s, but the rear gear on the IMS shaft is a press fit and can be moved inwards by the set screws. When that happens, it cannot be re-positioned without taking the engine apart. You also need to remove at least three of the chain tensioners or the shaft will pull off to one side, severely hampering the installation of the new bearing.

Edited September 8, 2012 by JFP in PA

[hucqym]

so without using the set screws, but keeping both camshafts locked, will the IMS mostly stay centered or would I have to deal with that aligning when I try to reinstall the new bearing?

[JFP in PA]

We use the LN procedure, locking the engine at TDC first (absolutely critical), locking the cams, and pulling the three tensioners (we remove them as they are quite often shot and need cleaning or replacement anyway); never had a problem with the shaft not being centered for the bearing removal and reinstall.

We get calls from IMS DIY’s gone badly; and most of them, and in particular the ones that have really “gone off the reservation” involve using the setscrews. The ones that involved the LN procedure that went bad happened because someone decided to skip a step of two and ended up in deep yogurt as the direct result. This process is not difficult, but it does require two things: some special tools and the ability to read and follow the directions………….

[hucqym]

Firstly, THANKS JFP for your prompt responses, as always! :)

Now to lock the camshaft on my 5-chain 01' boxster, I need some tool as shown in the attached image. The LN kit that I bought has only one. Any idea where I can another similar one. I sure hope I dont have to buy the more expensive ($200+) timing tool just for locking the camshaft or another kit.

Also to clarify, on my 5-chain configuration, timing slots are on the exhaust shaft only, right? Also whats with the mention about modifying cam lock to be able to lock both pairs simultaneously. It seems like if I had another tool of the same type shown here, I would be able to lock both camshaft pairs simultaneously.

Edited September 8, 2012 by hucqym

[JFP in PA]

If you have the full LN kit, it should contain the following:

If you note that there is a five chain and a three chain cam tool (one of each), and that the LN instructions (item #6) says that if you have both tools, you can modify one so that both cams can be locked. Get a hack saw and a file and have at the three chain cam tool and turn it into a five chain tool..................that simple. If the kit you bought did not contain both, either try LN to see if they will sell you another one, or get a local fab shop to knock one out.

Edited September 8, 2012 by JFP in PA

[hucqym]

so I do have this complete kit and did modify the 3-chain one a little to make it similar to the 5-chain one. I can use them interchangeably now.

But i guess the modification that item#6 is mentioning is a little different. I still cant lock both pairs simultaneously. Keeping engine locked at TDC, I find I can lock the Right camshaft while the locking tool slips out of the left as soon as I tighten it. If I rotate by 360", I can get it to sit properly on left camshaft but now the right one slips out.

Look at this video thats talking about an offset and modification to lock both pairs simultaneously. This video is talking about 911 but I guess I have the same issue. Jump to 1:36 on the video

Would've been so much nicer if LN sold the kit with the modified 5-chain lock instead of giving me a 3-chain lock. (and a similar kit for the 3-chain model). Especially given the fact that this kit sells for a couple hundred bucks! :(

Edited September 9, 2012 by hucqym

[JFP in PA]

Are both of the cam locking slots sitting dead vertical when the engine is at TDC? If not, at least one cam may be out of time. This is exactly why we run a cam deviation value check with the Durametric software before and after doin an IMS......