Center Radiator Install - Multiple hose leaks!

[sac2dude]

Followed both the instructions from Loren and PelicanParts regarding the install. Replaced the hoses, installed the radiator, picked up the screw-type radiator hose clamps of different sizes, etc.

Hooked everything up and ran the car, adding coolant and following the "burping" instructions. Everything seemed fine, so we bolted the bumper cover back on.

Next day, antifreeze all over the garage floor! :-(

Put it back on jackstands, took off the cover, and what I see is multiple leaks of various amounts. There seems to be a small seepage between each hose to the center radiator and the corresponding inlet/outlet... only starts after running for a while once the system is hot.

The side radiators have more "abundant" drippage which beings earlier, but only after things warm up. Same spot, the hose to radiator interface.

At this point, I count FIVE leaks, all from the same locations.

Does the Porsche not like standard screw-type hose clamps?? It's not like I've never changed a coolant hose before... so this is quite frustrating. They're certainly snug, and I think I have the lower passenger radiator hose fixed by fitting 2 clamps on it, but really that's a hack and I'm not happy with it.

The wife really wants her car back. Any suggestions??

[Loren]

Are you sure you got the correct hoses?

And the screw type hose clamps need to be the correct size to properly tighten down.

[JFP in PA]

OK, here's your problem: The base car and S car use two different diameter hard cooling pipes that lead to the forward radiators. At one time, Porsche's "kit" for upgrading the base car to carry the center radiator had special molded hoses that corrected for this anomaly. Unfortunately, those hoses have totally disappeared and now all you can get are the standard "S" hoses which are too big. This has been causing folks to start soldering fittings together to try and make a leak tight fit, or spending a lot of time and money to replace the hard pipes.

Fortunately, somebody had come up with a neat solution that is reasonably priced. A Porsche shop called Precision Chassis Works had machined up adaptors that either you can have TIG welded to your pipes, or you can send them your pipes and they will redo them, or they will sell you hard pipes with the adaptors already welded in. All for about $100 (with the exchange for your pipes). http://www.precision...dification.html Ultra clean installed, never leak.

Edited May 1, 2012 by JFP in PA

[kbrandsma]

OK, here's your problem: The base car and S car use two different diameter hard cooling pipes that lead to the forward radiators. At one time, Porsche's "kit" for upgrading the base car to carry the center radiator had special molded hoses that corrected for this anomaly. Unfortunately, those hoses have totally disappeared and now all you can get are the standard "S" hoses which are too big. This has been causing folks to start soldering fittings together to try and make a leak tight fit, or spending a lot of time and money to replace the hard pipes.

Fortunately, somebody had come up with a neat solution that is reasonably priced. A Porsche shop called Precision Chassis Works had machined up adaptors that either you can have TIG welded to your pipes, or you can send them your pipes and they will redo them, or they will sell you hard pipes with the adaptors already welded in. All for about $100 (with the exchange for your pipes). http://www.precision...dification.html Ultra clean installed, never leak.

Check out Pelican Parts for copper adaptors.

I installed the center radiator a while back and just used worm screw hose clamps to tighten over hoses and pipes, even though they didn't match. No problems.

Edited May 2, 2012 by kbrandsma

[sac2dude]

OK, here's your problem: The base car and S car use two different diameter hard cooling pipes that lead to the forward radiators. At one time, Porsche's "kit" for upgrading the base car to carry the center radiator had special molded hoses that corrected for this anomaly. Unfortunately, those hoses have totally disappeared and now all you can get are the standard "S" hoses which are too big. This has been causing folks to start soldering fittings together to try and make a leak tight fit, or spending a lot of time and money to replace the hard pipes.

Fortunately, somebody had come up with a neat solution that is reasonably priced. A Porsche shop called Precision Chassis Works had machined up adaptors that either you can have TIG welded to your pipes, or you can send them your pipes and they will redo them, or they will sell you hard pipes with the adaptors already welded in. All for about $100 (with the exchange for your pipes). http://www.precision...dification.html Ultra clean installed, never leak.

Check out Pelican Parts for copper adaptors.

I installed the center radiator a while back and just used worm screw hose clamps to tighten over hoses and pipes, even though they didn't match. No problems.

Thanks for all the replies!

So you're saying you DID use those copper adapters? Or did you skip using them and just tightened the hose down to fit the smaller Boxster hardline? Given the difference in size, I'm really surprised that would work!

I've searched for that size adapter (1 1/4"x 7/8") and can't find it available from my normal outlets (amazon.com, etc.) Lowe's didn't have that size either.

I'll check with Pelican.

[sac2dude]

Okay, I contacted Precision Chassis Works, sent in my old cooling pipes, and then got them back.

Just put them in today, and they do look great.

But I'm still leaking, and its the strangest looking stuff I've ever seen. It appears to be seeping from the center of the hose:

HELP!

I'll try linking to facebook to post pictures:

Here's the modified Passenger side cooling line...

Here's the drivers side modified cooling line:

And this is the lower passenger side hose going into the radiator...

Edited May 26, 2012 by sac2dude

[1schoir]

To post photos: Go to "More Reply Options" at the bottom right corner of the "Reply to this topic" box.

When you get the bigger, more options, box to enter text, go to the bottom left under the box and click on "Choose File"...

Once the file loads, click on "Attach this file"... Then, once you see the icon for the file, be sure that your cursor in the text box is where you want the photo to appear and then click on "Post this file".

You can then "Preview" your post to see what the photo looks like and where it appears in the text.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited May 26, 2012 by 1schoir

[sac2dude]

Thanks! I had no idea how to attach files...

I can see my facebook-linked photos, but have no idea if anybody else can, so here they are as attachments. Anybody have any suggestions? Are these just bad hoses??

[1schoir]

Dude:

On your first and second photos, it looks to me like you may possibly have located each of those two hose clamps slightly too far away from the respective ends of each of those two hoses. As a result, the hose clamps may be squeezing directly on the "ridge" of each tube.

I would try to relocate the clamp in the first photo about 1/4 inch further to the right (as depicted in that photo), and the clamp in the second photo about 3/8 of an inch further to the left. Ideally you want to have the hose clamp just to the outside of the "ridge", not directly ON the ridge.

I'm basing my advice on what the photo of the tubes from Precision look like.

Try moving those two clamps and see if the leaking stops there.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited May 27, 2012 by 1schoir

[JFP in PA]

I would agree with Maurice, move the clamps. If it still leaks, you may have a small bit of debris inside the hose that is keeping it from sealing.

We have put several sets of these Precision modified tubes in for customers and not had any issues, so it has to be something small.

Edited May 27, 2012 by JFP in PA

[sac2dude]

I'll move the clamps, but I'm not confident it'll make a difference. If you look closely at the pictures, my concern is the coolant isn't coming out of the fitting/hose interface, it's coming out of the hose itself where the threads are layered into the hose. It's weird...

[JFP in PA]

It could be a defective hose, but that would be pretty rare.................

[sac2dude]

It could be a defective hose, but that would be pretty rare.................

Finished putting her together on Saturday after much testing, and all is good!! :thumbup:

Bottom line: BAD HOSES.

I ordered two replacement hoses for the center radiator, installed 'em. No more leaks. Same clamps, etc.

Cudos to the Precision Chassis Works cooling line modifications! Those thing really make life easier, with less points of failure. Best $80 I've ever spent.

The wife is now very happy, and the Boxster looks sweet with that 996 bumper cover. Now all we need as a 3.6L transplant, and we're good to go!

[JFP in PA]

Glad you got it worked out.

[sac2dude]

I spoke too soon. The leaking is back.

I ran it for a while after installing the new hoses, burped it as I filled the coolant, ran it some more until the radiator fans cycled on and off. No leak.

Put it back together. The wife and daughter drove it everywhere... Rancho Cordova, Sierra College, really ran the heck out of it. Checked the garage floor the following day... No leak.

At that point I called it done.

Then a WEEK later, a drip shows up.

Then a couple days later its a puddle,.

I just pulled the nose cover and stuff off again to check, and it's leaking from every hose connection again. :( Even into the center radiator inlet/outlet, which never leaked before.

I'm at my wits end here. I don't understand it. I guess I'll have to bring it to Niello and pay $1500 or whatever, because it makes no sense. I've spent too many weekends on this stupid problem.

Sorry, I appreciate you guys trying to help, but I know at this point all I can do is vent.

[Loren]

Send me a PM if you want to bring it over and I'll have a look at it.

[Bob B]

Consider IPB Autosport if you and Loren can't sort it out. Honest Porsche specialist and prices are good. 12th & C in Sacramento.

[sac2dude]

All,

Thanks for the offers to help! I really appreciate it. However I'm pretty sure I have it worked out.

It's unbelievable, but here's the deal:

The original "kit" I purchased was from someone on Ebay. The hoses were still new, still had barcode stickers on them. Then the initial problem occurred after I installed- weird leaks from every hose connection seemingly from the "threads" sandwiched in the rubber.

I ordered a 2nd set of hoses, just in case, and picked up a bunch of new clamps at Niello Porsche in Rocklin. They were cool, they handed Anne six of em for free.

As I reported here, it STILL leaked. Took time for us to notice it, but EVERY CONNECTION leaked, just as before.

SO NOW I was exasperated with it. Spent time doing some research.

Found that both sets of hoses were manufactured by URO, based in China.

Went to Pelican, found a brand marked as "OEM" by Phoenix. Pelican had the lower passenger side hose. Ordered it. Searched all over for the corresponding Phoenix-branded driver's side upper hose.

Finally found one at KO Performance. Ordered it.

ONE MORE TIME - tear the puppy apart. The URO and Phoenix hoses were markedly different at the branch "T". The URO hoses were soft and pliant at that location, whereas the Phoenix hoses appeared to be a hard, almost PVC like "T", fused on both sides of the hose.

Re-used the same clamps from the previous install.

Put her back together, and Anne's been driving around all over the place. They just returned from Apple Hill this afternoon.

Result? No more leaks. It was the **** hoses.

People I've talked to speculated about overpressure issues might have occurred, but the fact is that the only hoses to leak on the car were the URO's. None of the OEM hoses from 2001 were having a problem, and to install the modified cooling lines I had to unclamp/clamp a couple of those as well. I'm speculating that somehow, under pressure, the URO's were allowing coolant to escape INTO the hoses at the "T", which would manifest as a leak at the tail ends of the hose.

Weird? Yes. But I went through essentially 4 URO hoses, all showing the same symptoms, and 2 phoenix hoses, no problem. Same clamps, same guy (me) installing.

Glad its fixed, but I find it disturbing that I had a 4 out of 4 failure on those hoses. One? Okay, sure. But this is nuts.

Edited June 30, 2012 by sac2dude

[1schoir]

Thanks for the update. Sure is another cautionary tale about parts not manufactured by a known entity!

Glad you got it sorted out.

Regards, Maurice.