Metal flakes in oil filter

[FormulaReed]

Hi all,

I took my car (1997 boxster) into a shop to have the oil changed and have an IMS guardian installed. The next day, the shop manager messaged me and informed me that they had found metal flakes in the oil filter. Sounds like it had a bit of ferrous stuff in it as well as some alloy. They suggested pulling the trans and taking a look at the IMS, I gave them the green light to do the work and there going to get back to me tomorrow when they know more.

Here is my question: If the IMS is bad, what should I get to replace it? I am kind of thinking about getting the pelican kit because I have all ready bought the IMS guardian. I would think that the pelican bearing would last un till I do the clutch. I would like to put a ceramic one in, but the price (i know it's worth the money) is making me cringe.

Also, other than the IMS, what could be causing the metal?

On one hand, if it's the IMS, I think I got really lucky. I was going to do the bearing upgrade the next time I put a clutch in, but because the clutch only has 30K on it, I thought that the IMS guardian would give me some piece of mind. If the IMS is failing, that IMS guardian is amazing, it's the only reason the car was in the shop.

Thanks,

Reed

[wvicary]

It's not odd to have metal flakes caught in the filter but to what degree and what they are from is the question. How many miles on the engine? Can you post a pic of the filter/flakes?

If they have already pulled the clutch assembly to inspect the IMS, why not just update the unit with the LN unit and have it done with?

[FormulaReed]

I think I am going to have the LN bearing installed if the IMS is at fault. I am just looking at my options. I all ready spent a bunch of money on the IMS guardian so putting another 600 into a new bearing is a bit of a downer. I have been thinking about the pelican bearing with the IMS guardian might not be a bad fix, but I don't think it's as good as the LN.

Edited May 1, 2012 by FormulaReed

[FormulaReed]

The engine has 120k on it. The PO had the clutch, rms and IMS replaced about 10k before I got the car and I have put another 10k on it. The IMS was replaced with a factory unit.

I am a little surprised that the IMS would fail so quick, but I guess it failed just like the low mile cars, about the only thing on my car with low miles on it is the clutch and IMS/rms

[logray]

The story of replacing the bearing with a factory unit doesn't make sense. On a 1997 boxster with a dual row bearing, this is not possible without complete engine tear down. The OEM bearing is not sourcable directly from Porsche, you have to purhcase the entire IMS tube. Secondly, it has an internal sprio-lock, and once you remove the dual row bearing it cannot be used again. Perhaps he just had the IMS flange and/or flange seal replaced.

There are many sources of metal in the engine aside from the IMS bearing. I wouldn't jump to conclusions there.

[FormulaReed]

Ya, it could be that they just replaced the cover. I did not know that you could not get the bearing. The receipt from the clutch work just said IMS. I assumed that was the bearing.

I am a little freaked out and I am trying to educate myself the best I can. Could failing chain tensioners be to blame? My car has a rattle on cold start that I attributed to the tensioners going slack. It does not do it on every cold start, only if I have not driven the car for a few days.

[kbrandsma]

I would consider getting your oil tested every oil change from some place reliable like Blackstone Labs.

[logray]

Noisy (underperforming) tensioners could just be old and worn and needing replacement. They could also just be dirty and take a little while to "pump up".

The early cars have roller chains which are much noiser on startup than their hyvo chain counterparts starting around 2001 ish MY.

I doubt the tensioners or chains would be the source of the metal flakes however.

Certainly have the IMS flange cover removed by a professional according to procedures and inspect the IMS bearing for play and wear.

I wouldn't worry too much, since you are catching the problem early on chances are you won't have a problem if you address it properly.

Still though, it would be good to see pictures of just how much metal we are talking about as to what steps you should take next.

[wvicary]

Just curious as to what engine oil you are using and what mileage you change it at? Please don't turn this into a oil debate people.

[mikefocke]

In theory, isn't it possible to replace the bearing in a '97 with a bearing without teardown as Hartech is doing in the UK using a bearing similar to the bearing originally used by Porsche?

[FormulaReed]

I went over to the shop yesterday and checked out the oil filter. It did not look nearly as bad as I thought. By the way the shop described it, I thought it was going to be caked in metallic bits.

It's hard to see in the pictures, but there are some bits of metal in the pleats of the filter and some in the housing. I can't get seem to post pics, so here is a link to them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38544789@N03/6997451536/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38544789@N03/6997451592/

[wvicary]

I don't see anything to worry about but keep inspecting the filters.

[whall]

I always check the filter after the cardboard end pieces have been cut away and the filter spread open completely. That way I can see the amount of debris, if any, in its totality.

Bill

[logray]

In theory, isn't it possible to replace the bearing in a '97 with a bearing without teardown as Hartech is doing in the UK using a bearing similar to the bearing originally used by Porsche?

Yes, if the bearing you are using allows installing the lock ring or spiro lock once the bearing is pressed or driven in.

[FormulaReed]

Sorry I have not updated this thread sooner, but I just got the car back and hear is the story.

The shop pulled the gear box and took a look at the IMS bearing and they found this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/38544789@N03/7473551314/

It's a NSK bearing with out any seals on either side. Not the factory bearing, it must have gone in when the PO had the clutch done. It did not have any play and felt pretty good. I could feel a little spot of roughness but it felt fine to me.

Because the car was all part, I had them put a LN bearing and replace the RMS. It was not leaking bad (never left any oil on the ground, but i could see a little bit)but I figured I might as well have it done.

So I got the car back yesterday and took it for a drive. Ran great and I was really happy. Un till I looked at the rear bumper. It was covered in oil. I looked under the car and it looks like the RMS is now leaking like sieve. I drove about 80 miles round trip. I got in touch with the shop and they think the AOS has failed. Only thing is, I don't have any of the symptoms of a failing AOS. Not a ton of smoke, I can easily remove the oil cap when the engine is running, no CEL, no bad idle, no loss of performance.

I am taking it back to the shop on monday and will see what they say.