Dealer/shop spark plug change & cost ?

[britdave]

I try to do a lot of stuff myself on my 2002 911 ,such as oil change , air filters etc, but after I saw what it takes to change the spark plugs, I thought I would leave that to the pros ?

Question, how much should I expect to pay to have 6 spark plugs put into my 2002 C-2 ? I only have 23 K miles on the clock,however my buddy says that, because it's 10 years old (and the spark plugs are as well) I need to replace them ,due to time ? Is that right ? And if so, what would be a fair price to do this ? I realize it's the mechanics time,not the plug cost,but how much,and do plugs wear out with just time, not miles ? Thanks for any input, Brit Dave.

[wvicary]

Sorry I can't help to answer the cost involved question but I think one of the best reasons to replace spark plugs due to time is to reduce the risk of them seizing into the cylinder heads. Spark plugs can become glazed from short trips due to them not being at operating temp long enough to burn themselves clean. This isn't so much a concern with the newer cleaner burning engine.

Just another thing to consider is replacing the ignition coils at the same time due to age.

Edited April 27, 2012 by wvicary

[JFP in PA]

Sorry I can't help to answer the cost involved question but I think one of the best reasons to replace spark plugs due to time is to reduce the risk of them seizing into the cylinder heads. Spark plugs can become glazed from short trips due to them not being at operating temp long enough to burn themselves clean. This isn't so much a concern with the newer cleaner burning engine.

Just another thing to consider is replacing the ignition coils at the same time due to age.

This is exactly why it is a very good practice to put a small amount of anti seize on the plugs before torquing them in, along with a small amount of dielectric grease on the coil boot.. We have had cars come back for plug service more than eight years after we replaced them, and the old plugs came right out with no drama. A lot of people like to say that using anti seize on the plugs in these engines is not called for, but once you see the grief a seized or galled plug causes, the silver paste suddenly becomes cheap insurance. We have never had a coated plug cause a problem, regardless of age or mileage..........

[logray]

At a shop you would probably pay ~$15 per plug and then at most 2 hours labor.

There are alternative plugs for example from NGK that cost half or even less than half of that.

If you've changed a plug on any car though, this one is really not any more difficult.

1 clamp and 2 or 3 bolts for the muffler.

2 bolts for the heat shield.

2 bolts per coil pack and 1 connector.

A spark plug socket and various extensions/wobble sockets for the plugs

Be sure to have the coil packs inspected for cracks.

[britdave]

Ok ,well thanks. I wonder if there is a video somewhere on how to do a plug change ? And are you telling me at a Porsche dealer this would be a two hour job ?

I thought it involved more than that ? However since the car is 10 years old now, and still has the original plugs, it's probably a good idea to change them,even if it does only have 23 K on the odometer ?

[britdave]

Sorry I can't help to answer the cost involved question but I think one of the best reasons to replace spark plugs due to time is to reduce the risk of them seizing into the cylinder heads. Spark plugs can become glazed from short trips due to them not being at operating temp long enough to burn themselves clean. This isn't so much a concern with the newer cleaner burning engine.

Just another thing to consider is replacing the ignition coils at the same time due to age.

This is exactly why it is a very good practice to put a small amount of anti seize on the plugs before torquing them in, along with a small amount of dielectric grease on the coil boot.. We have had cars come back for plug service more than eight years after we replaced them, and the old plugs came right out with no drama. A lot of people like to say that using anti seize on the plugs in these engines is not called for, but once you see the grief a seized or galled plug causes, the silver paste suddenly becomes cheap insurance. We have never had a coated plug cause a problem, regardless of age or mileage..........

It's funny you say to use anti seize,and perhaps your right ? However,on the Pelican Parts site I found the following, look what they wrote at the end :

This procedure is for the 911SC, but the other 911s are similar.

If your engine has a hard-to-correct miss, it may need a new set of spark plug wires. In some cases, when the wires are bad, you can get quite a light show when you open the engine lid at night. With the engine running, you may see sparks jumping from the spark plug cables. Another indicator of bad wires is if you get a little shock when you touch the plug wires with the engine running (be careful of the fan and AC belts).

It is a good practice to replace the distributor cap and rotor along with the wires. These two parts aren’t expensive, and replacement of them will ensure strong ignition. You can assemble the plug wires to the new distributor cap before installation. That makes it easier to observe how the old wires are routed around each other into the distributor cap, and how the braided ground straps are routed around the wires. When assembling the wires to the cap, apply a thin coat of dielectic grease on the end of each wire, around the outside of each nipple on the distributor cap and coil, and inside the end of each spark plug connector. This will ensure good electrical contact, and help with disassembly in the future if it is necessary. Be sure to orient the new distributor cap the same as the old one, and to insert the plug wires in the cap in the correct firing order.

This is also a good time to replace the spark plugs if needed. Do not use any anti-seize or lubricant on the spark plug threads—it can cause a plug to back out.

[logray]

I've used anti sieze on a few motors and have never had issues with them backing out. When JFP says a very small amount, he's not kidding. We're talking really really small amount.

For what it's worth, I haven't used anti sieze on the Porsche.

And to the previous post, I'm not sure what the shop time is but I bet 2 hours is pretty close to book time.

It's really not difficult, especially if you remove the mufflers first which is also very very simple if you know how to use a wrench..

Yes there are several write ups. I'm not sure about you tubes but you should try to search.

[wvicary]

I also always use anti-sieze in very small amounts only on the start of the plug threads. If the spark plug is torqued correctly it will not loosen. To aid in removal of the spark plug HT lead I lightly coat the contact area to plug with dielectric grease to stop bonding and corrosion and even apply it to the ignition coil electrical plug. We are talking about very small amounts of products here and high temp anti-sieze.

[JFP in PA]

We do this for a living so you can imagine how many plugs we change in a year; we use anti seize on all sparkplugs, torque all plugs, and have never had one back out. That really is an "urban legend"................as are claims that your wheels will fall off if you use it on your wheel lugs, which we also do...............

Edited April 28, 2012 by JFP in PA

[britdave]

Ok , well thanks for the info JFP in PA . Perhaps then you can tell me what a fair price at a dealer or an independent shop would charge me to replace spark plugs ?

Also, how much are the sleeves to replace,and anything else that should be done whilst doing this job, any ignition parts ? If so what would the parts and labor cost approximately for those items ? My 2002 911/996 is now 10 years old , but only has 23000 miles on the odometer. Any input from anyone would be appreciated, thanks Brit Dave.

Edited April 29, 2012 by britdave

[JFP in PA]

To change the plugs, and pull, inspect, and re-o-ring the plug tubes (only if they show signs of leakage and they need it) should take a couple hours of shop time plus parts. Actual cash value will depend upon the shop's prevailing hourly rate and local parts pricing. I would also have the coil packs checked out for cracking or deterioration due to their age, any questionable ones should be replaced.

[logray]

2002 MY spark tubes?

Edited April 29, 2012 by logray

[JFP in PA]

Yes, unless he has a replacement engine. 2002 was the last year for the tubes, 2003's did not removable tubes.

Edited April 29, 2012 by JFP in PA

[logray]

Ahhh cool... I knew it was around 2002/2003 ish when they changed over, but wasn't certain of the exact year.

[zman2002 C4S]

I just changed plugs coils on my 02 C4S. Took about 4 hours for me taking my time and checking things out since it was my first time doing this on a Porsche. I've seen people say they do it without dropping the exhaust but I don't see how.

No plug tubes on my car. My total cost doing coils and plugs myself was about $300. I guess it would cost about that much just for the plugs at the dealer but I didn't price it out.

[zman2002 C4S]

I think 2001 was the last year for spark plug tubes. I don't think any of the 3.6 engines had them.

[JFP in PA]

I think 2001 was the last year for spark plug tubes. I don't think any of the 3.6 engines had them.

2002 was the "official" last year. As with most things Porsche, some had them in 2002, some did not............

Edited April 30, 2012 by JFP in PA

[logray]

In PET, for the 3.6L 2002-2004 head parts list, they do list the tubes, orings, & grease... even though they are not pictured.

[britdave]

Thanks for all the info folks. I now found a well recommended independent who will charge me 2 hours labor ($120) and I told him I would get my own plugs. I suppose I should also replace the plug sleeves as well ?

I asked him about the ignition coils,and he said if your not having any problems leave them be. It's a 2002 C2 996, but it only has 23,000 miles on the clock,so I'm assuming the ignition coils are OK ? What do you think ?

Also, should I just use the stock Porsche replacement spark plugs,or go for something different ? So far I just think a plug and sleeve change should suffice, any opinions on that, and the coils ? And last but not least any recommendations where to get the parts from ? Any advice ? Thanks a lot Brit Dave.

[keytohwy]

That's a solid price. Sorta unrelated, but a couple of years ago, my wife's Mercedes CEL came on, and I took it to my indy. They wanted $1200 for plugs (12) and wires all the way around. I took it home and did it myself. Probably 6 hours of labor, as I'd never done it and I took my time. Car never ran better.

I got my parts from RockAuto.com.

Good luck!

[britdave]

Are there such a thing as genuine "Porsche" spark plugs,or does someone else make them ? Never done this before,what does Porsche use or recommend ?

Also, should I change the spark plug tubes (sleeves) ? And where is the best place to buy these items from ? Thanks Dave.

[Loren]

"Porsche" brand spark plugs do not exist. Porsche has "approved" spark plugs from both Bosch and Beru - with specific heat ranges/types.

Give us the exact year and model number of your car and we can tell you the type/range to buy.

Again, depending on the year of your car you may or may not need new oil tubes. These were primarily a problem on very early model 9x6 series cars.

[britdave]

Thanks a bunch Loren. It's a : 2002 Carrera coupe 996 C2 320 HP 3.6 liters , serial # WPOAA 2991 2S620376 (<< if that helps) As some one else previously said I don't know if it has the spark plug tubes/sleeves or not, as it is a 2002 and perhaps some did come with them,and some not for that year ? I have noticed a few small drops of oil under the car occasionally, I just hope its from the spark plug area, and NOT the infamous rms problem that is attached to these cars, allegedly they fixed that several years ago when I first got it at the dealer ?

Any info you can give me would be much appreciated, as to where to get the plugs (and tubes if needed ? ) cost , and specifically the brand & type needed.

Thanks loads Dave.

[Loren]

The 3.6 liter design eliminated the plastic oil return tubes it uses shorter metal tubes that are factory installed. So you should not need oil tubes or o-rings.

I have seen RMS leaks that only leak a few drops at a few times. My personal inclination is to just leave those alone until they get worse or you need to change the clutch etc. If it is only a few drops a month I would not worry.

[britdave]

Thanks Loren. How about the type/brand of plugs for that vehicle,what would you recommend ?