Dyno Results : Dansk Sports Muffler for Boxster S

[clubhead]

Just got back from the dyno today. Results as follows :

Horsepower (at the wheels)

Base run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Tequipment Sports Muffler : 234bhp @ 6,472rpm

Run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Dansk Sports Muffler :

239.6bhp @ 6,472rpm

Gain : 5.7bhp at about 6,500rpm

Torque (at the wheels)

Base run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Tequipment Sports Muffler :

138.4kg/m @ 4841rpm

Run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Dansk Sports Muffler :

139.5kg/m @ 4927rpm

Gain : 1.1kg/m at about 4,900rpm

The fuel used for all dyno is 100 Octane as this is available from most pumps locally.

Bad news :

- Overall torque loss below 4,800rpm. As much as 2kg/m at about 3,200rpm

- Overall minor bhp loss below 4,800. About 1bhp at times, no big deal.

- Major resonance at 2,500rpm which equates to 60mph at 5th gear (tip). This is cruising speed which can be annoying and probably will be.

Good news :

- Overall torque and bhp gain above 4,800rpm

- Weight savings, see below

Points to note :

1) You will require 2 U joints (left and right cat) for the connection between the cat and the muffler. The original connectors can't be used. This can be seen in the 2nd photo.

2) You'll need to re-use the u pipe that connects the cat to the muffler. This can also be seen in the 2nd photo.

3) A bit of wrestling to get the exhaust centered. Will be tough to DIY. I didn't.

4) I forgot to request for torque figures in lb/ft format. So for those who know who to convert, please help.

5) There's some discrepancy bet my last dyno run and the supposedly base line reference run today. For those to noticed, my previous run is supposed to be 231.2bhp and not 234bhp as reflected here. I'll find out when I next visit the shop but will be in 2 week's time.

The weights are :

Tequipment Muffler : 41.9lbs

Dansk Sport Muffler : 26.5lbs

I'm told reliably that this is the exhaust that is also sold by Fabspeed and Evo.

I don't like the sound. The unique 'howl' produced by the Tequipment sports exhaust is gone, replaced by a somewhat deep growl much like that of a modified Jap import Also, given the gains are mostly in the upper rpm range, normal driving will suffer from lower torque. For those that frequent the track, you'll benefit from it. I go like once in 6 months so.....

Overall, I'm not too happy with the results, especially since I paid US$180 to get the thing shipped to me here from US. **** :angry:

[europwr]

I am currently running s-car-go headers with 200 cell race cats and the 3" GHL exhaust. Sounds like a beast...not for those with sensitive ears!

At my dyno run I put down 217.2 hp to the wheels and 179.1 lbs of torque at 6600 rpm's.

So with that set up plus the evo intake I am pushing roughly 245-250 on a non-"S"

With an addition of some tuning with my new chip....I should be pushing 270. Not too bad.

:clapping:

[clubhead]

At my dyno run I put down 217.2 hp to the wheels and 179.1 lbs of torque at 6600 rpm's.

So with that set up plus the evo intake I am pushing roughly 245-250 on a non-"S"

:clapping:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're saying that with the headers, sports cat and muffler, you're currently at 217.2bhp? And with the addition of the Evo intake, you expect to gain 20+bhp to 245bhp? I think that's quite unlikely.

But I'll be putting in my Evo intake next week or week after. I'll come out with another report then...

[Jay Laifman]

Are you still out there? Based on your post, and the one at

http://home.mho.com/achmiel/BoxsterS.htm I have purchased an '03 PSE and am just about ready to install it in my '00 Boxster S.

The shop I'm getting it from will put it in, and for not all that much money ($150). But, I like working on my cars and my son would like to help. So, I'm thinking about doing it myself.

I've heard that this is a crazy long procedure, and you can get it *DOWN TO* 3 hours if you pull of the entire back bumper. I got under the car this weekend and I must be missing something. What takes so long?

I'm told the two mounts on top of the exhaust are the problem. I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm used to working on English cars that need two elbows per arm already. But, I could easily get my arm up there and work a wrench in there. It appears the studs go up into shock mounts of some sort, with an allen key nut holding them, or two bolts at each side that mounts that shock mount to the horizontal beam. Seem that it might be better to take it off the beam rather than the allen key nuts.

Then, at each side of the exhaust are U pipes. A sleeve fits over each of the joints. You need to loosen the clamps over each side of one sleeve, and slide it on or off the U pipe (granted, that may take some coaxing and heat and cussing and a big wrench, but not insurmountable - or maybe that's just with English cars).

Then there are a few places where nuts and bolts hold on a few mounting bracket locations.

Putting it back on seems like the opposite, with the hardest part being the alignment to get it all horizontal and centered.

So, what am I missing? I have to think if all goes well (which it never does), doing this alone will take me 3 hours max, and not need removing the rear bumper.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Oh, and one more thing. I know of a guy who is being told by Porsche that the '03 will not fit the pre '03 without a different bumper. Yet, your pictures show a pre '03. Doesn't it fit fine with the '03 S tips? Or do they get too close to the bumper and cause it to melt or something? Is there any interference with the bypass pipes?

[adsach]

Jay,

I think your time estimate of 3 hours is reasonable. Having done my 02S once, I could pull and reinstall the stock muffler in 2 hours. If you decide to wire the noise reduction flap for the PSE or you have to move that horizontal beam from stock to the PSE that could add another hour. If you like tinkering, this is a do-it-yourself job.

I can't speak to pre-03 vs post-03 fit. Leave the bumper cover on and there is nothing to align. It will either fit or not fit. If the fit is close, you might loosen screws and be able to force the bumper cover 3/8 of an inch or so.

I recently posted a picture of the 02S muffler and mounting bracket, if you haven't seen it it will help visualize where to find the bolts.

[stumpjumper]

Jay,

assuming you have the stock exhaust on currently, 3 hours shouldn't be hard at all

the toughest part of removing the exhaust on my 02 S was the crappy rusted aftermarket clamps that were installed to make the SuperSprint exhaust fit, getting that damned thing off took me damned near 5 hours

putting the porsche exhaust on took about 1 hour

the sleeves may need some coaxing with a rubber mallet, and or a torch, but they will slide, and once they do the entire exhaust will come off with the two bolts that hold it to the transmission

the two bolts are actually pretty easy once you find them with your hand, the only thing you'll need is a regular (not deep, it won't fit) socket, the smallest extension you can find (1/2 inch, or 3/4, I can't remember) then a universal joint, then a 5 inch extension

it's a tight fit, a deep socket is too long to fit, a regular one is too short

once you undo those two bolts it'll fall right down, and to remount the other will be just as easy, you may want to buy new nuts, sleeves, and clamps though

as for the wiring you'll need to do, that may actually take more time that it will to exchange the muffler

[Jay Laifman]

Ok, so it's in! First, as far as I could see, taking off the rear bumper is a necessity, and if it's not, I see no reason to not do it. Taking it off is no sweat, and the access gained makes it soooo easy. (Mine is an '00 S that had a stock muffler, now has a 03+ PSE)

Sadly, I never felt how hot the lower bumper got from the old exhaust. The larger S tips fit fine and there is plenty of room. But, after my first drive, and I felt it, the tips and lower bumper were pretty hot. But, again, I don't know what it was like before, AND it was also admittedly after a very hot run.

Finally, the sound. It as a fantastic sound with no resonance - very strong and gutsy. When it starts up, it definitely has that burbling growl like my neighbor's C4S. So, that's cool. Maybe the best sign was that when I came back from my drive, my kids were jumping up and down saying how it sounded like a race car. That said, I still wish it was louder inside the car with the top up. It doesn't vibrate through you like my older cars. Sometimes, it really isn't very different - inside the car. But, I'm still deciding if it's necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it's in part how far away the exhaust pipe is - not to the side like on the 911. And, sometimes you really don't want to be shaken all the time. But, no, it does not scream through you.

Someone has commented that if you use the 03 exhaust with the straight pipes taking out the second set of cats, that's the best sound on the planet. They insist it's still smog legal. But, I'm not so sure. I think the law requires ALL factory smog equipment, no matter what it is, and even if it seems duplicative.

Also, I may be imagining it. But, before, on my '00 S, I felt like there was this little flutter or something at about 3,000 rpm. Sometimes I thought I was imagining it too. I know I've heard others talk about flywheel problems and motor mount problems that might cause 3,000 rpm issues, but they haven't been able to solve it.

Now that I've been driving around with the new muffler, that flutter is gone. Maybe I'm imagining it being gone. Maybe I was imagining it in the first place. But, then, it was odd. I wasn't even thinking about it, but the absense of the flutter registered quickly - which almost makes it seem like the flutter was more present than I realized, but that I got used to it and didn't consciously think about it as much - until it was gone.

All in all, pretty easy job. I'm glad I did it - and I can't wait to get back in my car.

[LuisR]

has anyone tried this with the original exhaust???

i am trying to decide where or not to modify the OEM exhaust!!!

[jaekormtb]

has anyone tried this with the original exhaust???

i am trying to decide where or not to modify the OEM exhaust!!!

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side. This effectively vents the exhaust into the outside chambers, bypassing the first chambers in the muffler. The sound is great. No resonance at all, a mild exhaust sound at all RPM's, and a definite rumble when I've got my foot in it.

I'll add that I drilled three 3/4" holes through all of the elements in each of the second set of catalytic converters, opening them up quite a bit. That helped the sound as well! (and the power)

[djomlas]

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side. This effectively vents the exhaust into the outside chambers, bypassing the first chambers in the muffler. The sound is great. No resonance at all, a mild exhaust sound at all RPM's, and a definite rumble when I've got my foot in it.

I'll add that I drilled three 3/4" holes through all of the elements in each of the second set of catalytic converters, opening them up quite a bit. That helped the sound as well! (and the power)

do you have a picture of this?

[atmorris]

Are you still out there? Based on your post, and the one at

http://home.mho.com/achmiel/BoxsterS.htm I have purchased an '03 PSE and am just about ready to install it in my '00 Boxster S.

The shop I'm getting it from will put it in, and for not all that much money ($150). But, I like working on my cars and my son would like to help. So, I'm thinking about doing it myself.

I've heard that this is a crazy long procedure, and you can get it *DOWN TO* 3 hours if you pull of the entire back bumper. I got under the car this weekend and I must be missing something. What takes so long?

I'm told the two mounts on top of the exhaust are the problem. I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm used to working on English cars that need two elbows per arm already. But, I could easily get my arm up there and work a wrench in there. It appears the studs go up into shock mounts of some sort, with an allen key nut holding them, or two bolts at each side that mounts that shock mount to the horizontal beam. Seem that it might be better to take it off the beam rather than the allen key nuts.

Then, at each side of the exhaust are U pipes. A sleeve fits over each of the joints. You need to loosen the clamps over each side of one sleeve, and slide it on or off the U pipe (granted, that may take some coaxing and heat and cussing and a big wrench, but not insurmountable - or maybe that's just with English cars).

Then there are a few places where nuts and bolts hold on a few mounting bracket locations.

Putting it back on seems like the opposite, with the hardest part being the alignment to get it all horizontal and centered.

So, what am I missing? I have to think if all goes well (which it never does), doing this alone will take me 3 hours max, and not need removing the rear bumper.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Oh, and one more thing. I know of a guy who is being told by Porsche that the '03 will not fit the pre '03 without a different bumper. Yet, your pictures show a pre '03. Doesn't it fit fine with the '03 S tips? Or do they get too close to the bumper and cause it to melt or something? Is there any interference with the bypass pipes?

I just removed my stock muffler on a MY03. I had the rear jacked up and on stands. I took the muffler off completely from underneath without any need to remove the rear bumper or cover. I had no trouble at all getting at the two mounts on top of the exhaust, and I do not have small arms at all. It wasn't even difficult to get out, other than it weighing a ton. A couple of hour job max. Takes longer to get the WD40 to penetrate the rusty bolts than it does to remove the exhaust.

Unbolt U-pipes and lower mounts and remove. Unbolt top bolts. Rotate rear (outlet side) of muffler downward until studs clear mount holes (may require slight pressure on the top mount cross bar to help along). Muffler will come right out. At least that's how mine went.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Andy_M

[jmatta]

Removal of the rear bumper cover is very easy and allows all sorts of access to the muffler. I replaced my factory unit with the one LuisR pictured. Very good sound, not overly loud and no resonance (unlike the aftermarket models). I would highly receommend this unit to anyone wishing to give their car some real Porsche sound. Did it myself in the garage with basic tools; the clamps even came off quite easily (car had 9k miles on it when performed).

[John V]

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side.

You mean you drilled in through the inlet pipes to the muffler? What did you use, a hole saw? How far in there do you have to get to be able to cut the baffle?

[986Jim]

Just to clarify a few things on Clubhead's post...

Horsepower (at the wheels)

Base run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Tequipment Sports Muffler : 234bhp @ 6,472rpm

Run with Dansk headers/Dansk Sports Cat/Dansk Sports Muffler :

239.6bhp @ 6,472rpm

Gain : 5.7bhp at about 6,500rpm

BHP is Brake Horsepower which refers to the HP at the crank without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components. You're running the car on a chassis dyno which measures Wheel HP. If your wheel hp (whp) is 239.6 then your BHP with say a 15% driveline loss included is (bhp / 0.85) 281.8bhp.

Also it would be interesting to know if your using a Dynojet, Mustang, Dynapak or Clayton dyno? If your using a mustang they always read lower than a dynojet does. 15% driveline loss is a generally accepted method of calculating your BHP. I have completed "run down" tests on a few of my cars to calculate the loss between the wheels and crank by powering up the dyno to max rpm in 3rd then letting the dyno run while the car is in gear and again while it's out of gear. The run down time lets you calculate an approximate of the driveline loss. The few cars I have done were all around 13-14% or so is. This also doesn't take into account the aux pumps etc..

The fuel used for all dyno is 100 Octane as this is available from most pumps locally.

100 there = 94 here. 100 Octane in Malaysia based on the RON method is 94 octane here based on the R+M/2 method, so he's not running any fancy type of gas that we don't have.

Thanks for doing that and sharing your results it's interesting to see the Dansk made power over the Porsche Tequipment exhaust, I wouldn't have thought that would happen.

Edited March 21, 2007 by 986Jim

[John V]

BHP is Brake Horsepower which refers to the HP at the crank without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components. You're running the car on a chassis dyno which measures Wheel HP. If your wheel hp (whp) is 239.6 then your BHP with say a 15% driveline loss included is (bhp / 0.85) 281.8bhp.

Not quite. bhp is brake horsepower, but a engine dynos AND chassis dynos can be brake-style dynamometers. I agree it is more clear to say "whp" when referring to a measurement taken on a chassis dyno.

Furthermore, the bhp quoted by manufacturers does include the water pump, generator, full exhaust and intake and accessory drives. It's all spelled out in the SAE testing protocol for engine horsepower ratings.

[986Jim]

Not quite. bhp is brake horsepower, but a engine dynos AND chassis dynos can be brake-style dynamometers. I agree it is more clear to say "whp" when referring to a measurement taken on a chassis dyno.

Which I'm pretty sure is exactly what I said. Doing a brake style on a Chassis dyno is commonly referred to as a Run Down by people who operate and tune on them which I explained in my post.

Edited March 21, 2007 by 986Jim

[jaekormtb]

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side.

You mean you drilled in through the inlet pipes to the muffler? What did you use, a hole saw? How far in there do you have to get to be able to cut the baffle?

Have a look around on this board or others for photos of a Boxster muffler cut open. The two inlet pipes are actually the same pipe. As gases enter, they are forced against each other, and they push themselves into two intermediate chambers. From there, the gases move to the opposite outter most parts of the muffler, and then circulate to a central chamber before exiting. By opening holes about three inches from the edges of the entry pipes (two inches into the muffler itself), gases will bypass the intermediate chambers and go directly into the nearest outter chambers, then into the central chamber, then out. I used a Dremel tool with a flex extension and a cutting wheel to cut slits in the entry pipe. From there, I used a chisel and a pry bar to open the holes. The pry bar allowed me to create fins within the pipes, directing flow to the outter chambers. Looking into the pipes when the exhaust is apart, it's not the prettiest work I've ever done, but it's internal and man, does it work!

The picture is what the stock muffler does...I hope my description is clear enough to show the differences.

[John V]

Not quite. bhp is brake horsepower, but a engine dynos AND chassis dynos can be brake-style dynamometers. I agree it is more clear to say "whp" when referring to a measurement taken on a chassis dyno.

Which I'm pretty sure is exactly what I said. Doing a brake style on a Chassis dyno is commonly referred to as a Run Down by people who operate and tune on them which I explained in my post.

You said "brake horsepower" referred to horsepower measured on an engine dyno as opposed to a chassis dyno. This is not true. It applies to both. No big deal.

Furthermore, you also said "brake horsepower" referred to an engine measurement without any parasitic components. Again, this is not true.

[John V]

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side.

You mean you drilled in through the inlet pipes to the muffler? What did you use, a hole saw? How far in there do you have to get to be able to cut the baffle?

Have a look around on this board or others for photos of a Boxster muffler cut open. The two inlet pipes are actually the same pipe. As gases enter, they are forced against each other, and they push themselves into two intermediate chambers. From there, the gases move to the opposite outter most parts of the muffler, and then circulate to a central chamber before exiting. By opening holes about three inches from the edges of the entry pipes (two inches into the muffler itself), gases will bypass the intermediate chambers and go directly into the nearest outter chambers, then into the central chamber, then out. I used a Dremel tool with a flex extension and a cutting wheel to cut slits in the entry pipe. From there, I used a chisel and a pry bar to open the holes. The pry bar allowed me to create fins within the pipes, directing flow to the outter chambers. Looking into the pipes when the exhaust is apart, it's not the prettiest work I've ever done, but it's internal and man, does it work!

The picture is what the stock muffler does...I hope my description is clear enough to show the differences.

I think I understand. So you opened holes on each side of each of the inlet pipes, inside the muffler. I may have to try this! Thanks for the information.

John V

[djomlas]

does anyone have pictures of the inside of the muffler and how it needs to be mosified.

i searched and came up emptyhanded

thx in advance

[jaekormtb]

I modified my original exhaust by going into the entry pipes on each side of the muffler and cutting two 1" holes on each side.

You mean you drilled in through the inlet pipes to the muffler? What did you use, a hole saw? How far in there do you have to get to be able to cut the baffle?

Have a look around on this board or others for photos of a Boxster muffler cut open. The two inlet pipes are actually the same pipe. As gases enter, they are forced against each other, and they push themselves into two intermediate chambers. From there, the gases move to the opposite outter most parts of the muffler, and then circulate to a central chamber before exiting. By opening holes about three inches from the edges of the entry pipes (two inches into the muffler itself), gases will bypass the intermediate chambers and go directly into the nearest outter chambers, then into the central chamber, then out. I used a Dremel tool with a flex extension and a cutting wheel to cut slits in the entry pipe. From there, I used a chisel and a pry bar to open the holes. The pry bar allowed me to create fins within the pipes, directing flow to the outter chambers. Looking into the pipes when the exhaust is apart, it's not the prettiest work I've ever done, but it's internal and man, does it work!

The picture is what the stock muffler does...I hope my description is clear enough to show the differences.

I think I understand. So you opened holes on each side of each of the inlet pipes, inside the muffler. I may have to try this! Thanks for the information.

John V

Exactly!

[pomocanthus]

So I'm digging through these old posts and need some clarifications. I recently bought a Dansk exhaust and want to know if I need an adapter to mount to my '99 Tip Box (non-S) or not. In the first pic, to remove my stock muffler I need to undo the 4 fasteners circled in orange correct? Is it possible that there are only 2 instead of 4 fasteners? I can only seems to find 2 by feel. Do the two cylinders to the outside of the orange circles remain on the stock muffler? I can leave the triangular adapter piece along with the upper crossbar attached to the car?

In the 2nd pic, the top two bolts (circled in orange) on the Dansk muffler goes into two of the four holes on the upper crossbar (where 4 fasteners were removed in previous step) correct?

Thanks for your help.

[pomocanthus]

OK so I think I found the answer to my question. I figured I'd post it in case others were confused as well. The pic of the stock exhaust above (borrowed from another thread) is from a Box-S, which has the cylinders attached to each end of the cross-bar. I have a '99 Non-S which does not have the cylinders and only 2 instead of 4 fasteners near the top of the exhaust (item #29 in 1st pic below). I've hijacked pics from yet another thread that shows the differences between non-S and S exhausts. The first pic is a non-S and the 2nd is an S model.

Edited March 12, 2008 by pomocanthus