Casper Labs Ceramic IMS Bearing

[torontoworker]

Bill: I have a 99 C2 'tip' that I am considering having the IMS replaced bearing replaced in a few weeks as a preventative measure. I have 125000km's on the car's and change the oil on or before 5K with 5/40 after recently changing from 0/40.

Can you comment on the following:

1. 0/40 ver's 5/40 oil. (I was told by my mechanic that the 5/40 is better for our temp range in Canada for these engines) over the 0/40.

2. The 'theory' on the street is that tiptronic cars have fewer IMS issues because the over rev issue is eliminated - so therefore less potential damage? Some say the low percentages of 'tips' with IMS failures is a reflection of the lower number of 'tip's produced yet others say the numbers reported even using per-capita produced - are still lower then manual gearbox cars. So whats your feeling on 'how' the transmission can interact with this failure mode?

3. Is ambient heat an issue with IMS failures - say Scottsdale in mid summer against our rather lower peak summer heat of mid 80's F.?

4. I store my car during the winter here - mid Nov through to mid March without turning it over once. I change the oil before and after. Is this a poor procedure for an engine with an IMS design? Should the car be fired over and run for 20 minutes every week instead?

5. My car is a mid year 1999 - is it a single row bearing type? Are these the worst?

Thanks for your great input here.

[1schoir]

Bill: I have a 99 C2 'tip' that I am considering having the IMS replaced bearing replaced in a few weeks as a preventative measure. I have 125000km's on the car's and change the oil on or before 5K with 5/40 after recently changing from 0/40.

Can you comment on the following:

.....

5. My car is a mid year 1999 - is it a single row bearing type? Are these the worst?

Thanks for your great input here.

Now that the various versions of the IMS bearings have been out there for a while, the double row bearing, which is probably the version you have in your '99 has been getting better reviews than the singe row bearing that followed.

Read the posts from the beginning on this "Casper Labs Ceramic Bearing" thread for some excellent, well-informed, analysis of the IMS.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited April 8, 2012 by 1schoir

[casperlabs]

Your 99 came with a dual row bearing. Check maint. history to see if it is still in there. There are so many factors involved in oil selection, I would not dare make a quick comment on what is "best" for your application. All the major oil companies have lube chemists or applications engineers you can speak with. Get in touch with them. As a general comment I can say we are fortunate to live at a time where so much really great oil is readily available. Any mineral oil (coming from a top oil company) with an SG rating is going to be 1st class. Likewise the top synthetics. Synthetics are best for the ceramic hybrid if really cold weather starts are expected.

The transmission type has no impact on IMS bearing performance. NONE.

See earlier forum discussion on the merits/weakness of the 3 different IMS bearings used, and the mechanisms that lead to failure.

Preparation of stored Boxster/996/997 vehicles with conventional IMS bearings should include topping up the oil and running to normal operating temp. b4 storage. Any hybrid bearing engine should be topped up b4 1st start (after long storage) to assure the bearing is flooded. Owners of these cars should be more careful in general than typical auto owners) of keeping the oil full. We do not let the oil go down more than 1/2 qt b4 topping.

Periodic starting will be of no advantage to the IMS during storage.

BR

[casperlabs]

We have been away from this forum for a bit, because you folks have been keeping us busy. We sold the 76th bearing yesterday, and have had to double the manpower assembling bearings. We are shipping dual row and single row bearings, as well as pullers and drifts for the same. We direly need to update our ebay listings, and get an alternate supplier qualified to make IMS support studs (for those of you that have run the assembly to complete destruction). So far no one has needed a stud replacement, as all the bearings have gone into engines that had serviceable bearings or very early failure detection.

Best of all, we are finding that the customers who call us..... have heeded our warnings about the knowledge and skill required to make the bearing swap. These guys are studying the free on-line Porsche OEM workshop manual before they call us. They realize the complexity, are thinking before wrench twisting, and are prepared for the task. We have not had a negative incident yet, which has exceeded our expectations.

The demand for the 1st generation single row bearing has been far greater than expected, and we have had a couple periods where customers had to wait nearly two weeks for their bearings. We are trying to get ahead of this situation, but there may still be short delays in the near future for certain items.

Best of all, customers are now asking themselves why an installed bearing kit has to cost at least a thousand dollars! Some of the comments from customers who have installed one our competitor's product on a previous vehicle are really priceless! Too bad I can't quote them here (Loren would censor me).

Lately, I have been asking customers to post to this forum. I expect you will start to see the results of this soon. The typical bearing purchase to installation period is running 4-6 weeks. So, you should be seeing some feedback in short order.

Bill Ryan

Casper Labs, Inc.

[middy]

Can someone confirm if these bearings are still being produced? I've tried an ebay search with no joy?

[NorCalTransplant]

Can someone confirm if these bearings are still being produced? I've tried an ebay search with no joy?

Great question, I just spent an hour on this thread and Casper Labs is gone now? What happened to all the customer reviews that were going to come in?

[mikefocke]

This thread just died.

I have tried to summarize the current status of IMS replacement possibilities here.

Hartech in the UK is doing them and I've heard of the LN also being used over there.

Sometime soon there may be something different than currently available though when it will ship to installers other than by the US manufacturer I don't really know yet.

[perryinva]

Yes, anyone know what ever happened to Casper Labs and their product? This seemed a very good thread and run, and then, poof..gone!

[logray]

IMHO, I believe the replacement bearing business will decline rapidly once the IMS Solution comes to market... why install a ball bearing when you can have a solid bearing?

[mffarrell]

IMHO, I believe the replacement bearing business will decline rapidly once the IMS Solution comes to market... why install a ball bearing when you can have a solid bearing?

When do you think a new IMS solution will hit the market?

[logray]

Well considering they are already testing it (many many thousands of miles) and it does have a patent pend, my best guess, if everything works out we might see the actual product next year.

Who knows though, it might still be in R&D ... they aren't saying much about it yet other than it is a real device and it does work. IMO in theory this is the only way to solve the issue. At that point the only thing that could break a solid bearing would be insufficient lubrication (and then you'd have bigger problems to worry about like spinning a rod or crank bearing). With this solution there are no ball bearings to wear down and fail/etc.

[Silver_TT]

Logray,

who is it that is producing this solid bearing that is in testing? Is this a 996 retrofit? Is there anywhere to get more information on this or is this discussed in other threads?

[logray]

Well the information was recently "officially leaked" and then promptly removed, although some information still lingers... the fact is the cat got out of the bag and it is being discussed elsewhere.

I will leave it at that.

I have no affliation with said company, nor do I want to speculate any more about it until the said producer speaks up again.

Please out of respect, don't post info about the source until it has been "re-released", just keep it to a technical discussion at this point... thanks

[mffarrell]

Well considering they are already testing it (many many thousands of miles) and it does have a patent pend, my best guess, if everything works out we might see the actual product next year. Who knows though, it might still be in R&D ... they aren't saying much about it yet other than it is a real device and it does work. IMO in theory this is the only way to solve the issue. At that point the only thing that could break a solid bearing would be insufficient lubrication (and then you'd have bigger problems to worry about like spinning a rod or crank bearing). With this solution there are no ball bearings to wear down and fail/etc.

Are "They" Casper Labs or L&N? I think I read somewhere that L&N are working on an improved solution.Thanks!

[Y2K911]

The only IMSB Solution (Note capital S) I read about a couple of months ago on Rennlist was from Jake Raby (Flat6). I assume this is the Solution you guys are alluding to. He test drove it to Western Canada and back from Georgia in the Fall with great success, he reported. He was expecting the product to be available this Spring but, at first, the "Solution" would only be implemented in-situ in Georgia to make sure it was done right.I fint it interesting as well how the Casper Labs individual suddenly disappeared from this thread. He appeared to be very genuine ...

[JFP in PA]

Being second to market is not as simple as it looks. It is often quite easy to copy a proven solution to a known problem and offer it a lower cost; the hard part is usually the associated support required (special tools, technical support, training installers, remotely trouble shooting blown installations, etc.,). The second part is where you both earn (and typically spend) the profits garnered in the first section................

Edited December 27, 2012 by JFP in PA

[mikefocke]

As teaser comments and then pictures with descriptions have been (in the last 2 weeks) posted by Jake ...

Jake said the Solution will be described in a Porsche publication next month. And asks that you not try to contact him about the product until that time. If he and Charles are to do the launch right, they can't be answering phone calls and emails.

He has also said if you don't intend to keep the car 'almost forever' (my words, not his...I forget the term he used), use the current LN parts. Big difference in price and availability to the DIY community too.

Those who have been getting the Solution (yes there are other than his to-Canada-and-back test car running around with the Solution in them) have been, to use his description, spending more on his engines than just replacing the car or engine would cost because they love their cars (and may have personalized or otherwise improved their cars already).

I have no idea why Casper faded from the online scene. About 6 months ago I asked them for info about their bearing for inclusion in a comparison article and heard nothing from them.

There have been others who attempted to develop and market a part or kit, but they too seem to have faded from the scene for reasons JFP has suggested. I have often commented, in response to those who complained about the cost of the original LN kit, about the production cost of a part like this being only the tip of the iceberg. Having done it myself, my production costs were about 1/10th of the total product life cycle costs when including development, certification, testing, documentation and installation and user support. If you price only based on production costs, you go out of business rather quickly because there is no profit.

[JFP in PA]

Mike, check the "News and Rumors" section, the photos of the new system are there.

[Cefalu]

Well, we know what "The IMS solution is now".....

And that elusive pressurized oil source was an adapter at the oil filter.

We gave some thought to making a full pressure lubed journal bearing kit that would completely eliminate any IMS failure scenario short of some loss of oil pressure. It is really quite simple, using a bearing essentially the same as a pressed in cam in block camshaft bearing. The oil pump has plenty of reserve capacity in these engines for the miniscule add'l oil req'd, and the risk of damaging the bearing going in...... is much lower than any ball bearing. The drawbacks are an external oil line (and you have to drill a hole thru the open bell housing side of the case to feed the oil line to the bottom side of a new support --no nearby pressurized oil sources), and a lot more parts. You would have to sell 4000 of these to get a price that would make it affordable. If I make that much money, the IRS will be wondering where it all came from!<Snip>BRCasper Labs, Inc.

[Guest]

Most of you are NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS...I can only comment on my personal experience.

I now have had a Casper IMS bearing installed for a while. I had an L&N bearing put in and removed it after seeking support (center stud fell out during install) and clarification on the instructions (only one page) included with their product for a single row bearing. I was not pleased with LNE's responses.

Whereas, the Casper IMS came with a 'manual' for installation, very good and detailed information. You have seen Bill's posts, lots of knowledge imparted. He does not leave you "out there" on your own. LNE did. To their detriment, as it affected their reputation in my eyes.

Further, the Casper IMS bearing seemed to install and roll better than the LN, it is smoother and the tools Casper uses are much LESS WEIGHT (for removal and install) and more simple to use. All this creates LESS FRUSTRATION for the installer - whether it be a DIY or a shop. Less frustration leads to a better install. Again, my opinion.

Casper should be charging more...but I am glad they didn't. Bill was nice, answered any question presented, and provided, IMHO, more than what is currently available in the market, anywhere. This may be the last bastion of hope for DIY. Bill may have dropped off the Forum radar but it because he is BUSY! Enough said.

It is YOUR CAR and you can put what ever you want into it. I chose a Casper - and have not looked back, except for cops!

[mikefocke]

"had a 'bearing' put in". Who attempted it and what was their prior IMS experience?

Ln doesn't sell to DIYers.

Flat6 is the only installer of their "The Solution".

Casper is trying to limit their sales to experienced installers too.

Smart.

Just got back from my wife's pre-op briefing by the guy that will replace her knee. He has done thousands. Experience matters when you are inside a body or an engine.

Testing matters too when selecting a kit to have installed. Yes the new kit might be cheaper or even turn out after years to be better but it also may prove not as good in the long run of real world use. Do we really know yet? Do you select the new and relatively untested or the one with thousand of car/years in real world use? How much is saving some cash worth? How much risk to the rest of the engine are you willing to take?

[JFP in PA]

"had a 'bearing' put in". Who attempted it and what was their prior IMS experience?

Ln doesn't sell to DIYers.

Flat6 is the only installer of their "The Solution".

Casper is trying to limit their sales to experienced installers too.

Smart.

Just got back from my wife's pre-op briefing by the guy that will replace her knee. He has done thousands. Experience matters when you are inside a body or an engine.

Testing matters too when selecting a kit to have installed. Yes the new kit might be cheaper or even turn out after years to be better but it also may prove not as good in the long run of real world use. Do we really know yet? Do you select the new and relatively untested or the one with thousand of car/years in real world use? How much is saving some cash worth? How much risk to the rest of the engine are you willing to take?

And Homeboy, although banned here, posted on another forum that the engine with the "other" IMS bearing in it failed as well, engine full of metal......