How common are Intermediate Sharf Bearing Failures? Having read lots o

[Porca911]

Guys can you please help me? I used to own a Porsche Boxster, and enjoyed 3 trouble free years with it back in the early noughties. Now I have always known that there is a Intermediate Shaft Bearing issue with the Porsche engines and having almost purchased a 2002 C2 this week (only to pull out after discovering it was a Cat D) I thought I better read up on the IMS issue before diving in.

If I am honest from what I have been reading over the last few days, I have scared myself now. It's a serious case of Analysis Paralysis? :)

I know that there are now retrofit kits to improve the situation (developed in the US and sold by LN Engineering) and supplied and fitted here by AUTOFARM.

And there are also cleaver sensors which you can install in the place of your drain plug which alerts you if metal particles are visible in the oil. Great stuff, I thought!

However the scary bit is the retro fit replacement IMS bearing can only be installed if there are currently no metal pieces detected in the oil. And quite how are you supposed to buy a used Porsche while saying, I will buy it if I can change it's oil to check that there are no IMS bearing particles in it or in the oil filter. And if there are I will... SEE YOU LATER as a blown engine looms!!! "Run she's gona blow!" comes to mind.

In a word I think I have scarred the c*** out of myself and am now seriously having second thoughts about buying an older used 911.

So here is where you experienced forum members can help Porsche newbies such as myself. Just how common a fault is this? Should I be scared to buy a used 911 or is the Turbo or GT2/3 the only used one that you can safely own (as they don't use the same IMS bearing) or suffer from the problem of it failing.

Do you have any advise for a 911 virgin such as myself, I think this will really help 911 and Porsche newbies in general.

Taking the risk of requiring a new engine or an engine rebuild just doesn't seem attractive to me at the moment as I am sure anyone can understand. It is sounding like a game of Russian Roulette which I just don't fancy!

Many Thx.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Porca911

[logray]

...Analysis Paralysis? :)...

Definitely.

...I know that there are now retrofit kits to improve the situation (developed in the US and sold by LN Engineering) and supplied and fitted here by AUTOFARM...

To cure that paralysis, budget this in the cost of the car or negotiatiate the price down to include the retrofit as soon as you buy the vehicle... should only be $600 (DIY) 1500 (shop) USD

...And there are also cleaver sensors which you can install in the place of your drain plug which alerts you if metal particles are visible in the oil. Great stuff, I thought!...

You can buy one of these as well.

...the retro fit replacement IMS bearing can only be installed if there are currently no metal pieces detected in the oil...

True. However depending on the amount, complete engine teardown is required. But if it is a very small amount retrofit procedures have been successful without complete teardown. In either case you would still have a very viable rebuildable core which is worth a lot on it's own since you would have caught the bearing failure before total engine failure.

...I will buy it if I can change it's oil to check that there are no IMS bearing particles in it or in the oil filter. And if there are I will...

You most certainly have a right to do this. It's called a pre purchase inspection (PPI), and if you are buying a car without one you are asking for trouble. I wouldn't even think about buying a used car without having a shop give it a thorough once over.

...Just how common a fault is this?...

LN engineering says that 10% of all bearings may suffer failure (failure rate) at some point in their life, whether that happens at 15k or 300k miles, no one knows. Your Boxster shares the same IMS bearing that the 911 does.

If you want to get away from the IMS bearing issue all together, then yes the turbo platform is entirely different design without the IMS bearing (as are the newer 911's after 2009).

[Porca911]

Thanks for your detailed and thorough reply logray. I must admit perhaps I was over analysing the other day. I feel a lot calmer today :) and by the lack or replies maybe this really isn't such a major issue?

I did read an great article on site site called pedrosgarage which was humerously called Kaboom! They repair engines and replace IMS bearings and they quote that in their opinion the problem only affects about 1 or 2% of the engines.

The pre purchase inspecion (PPI) is an excellent idea and one that I really didn't think about. I will start making my enquiries to find a local main dealer of specialist who can perform this and I will ask them how thoroughly they check for the IMS problem seeing that this is a major concern for me.

And I have one other cunning plan before buying, a close friends friend has worked for a Porsche main dealer since qualifiying as a mechanic many moons ago. I understand that he is now a suited and booted service manager so I am sure to bend his ear on this subject before I embark on my 911 adventure!!

Thanks again!

[logray]

No problem.

The reason why there are probably not more responses is because the issue is discussed ad-nauseum on the forums and elsewhere. If you haven't already seen the link head over to LN Engineering's website for more info about the bearing "issue" than you probably would care to know about:

http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

It is a real issue, but some (perhaps most) of what you read and hear are the horror stories and what you don't hear are the success stories. Head over to the 100k plus mile club or threads to see some of that evidence. Some even over 200k.

Personally, I wouldn't let the issue prevent me from making a purchase or driving the car, especially considering there several options for preventative measures you can take.... regular oil changes of correct type, pre-purchase inspection, aftermarket warranties, retrofit bearing, per-emptive warning system (used on helicopters and airplanes).

[nbeihl]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

This company checks the oil for EVERYTHING. It is $25 and is the best purchase you could make when purchasing a vehicle of any brand. I do it every time I change my oil to keep track of any trends.

[phillipj]

nbeihl,

Great link.. Thanks!

[SA321]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

This company checks the oil for EVERYTHING. It is $25 and is the best purchase you could make when purchasing a vehicle of any brand. I do it every time I change my oil to keep track of any trends.

if only company like this existed in Europe ...

[996er]

hi Guys do you know of any tutorials on replacing your own RMS and IMS seals DIY. I'm pondering on doing my own....

Many thanks

[Loren]

Not really any DIY Tutorials that I am aware of.

TSBs from Porsche cover both updates and in the case of the RMS require a factory installation tool.

[logray]

These are about as close as you will get for DIY,

Pelican parts DIY: http://www.pelicanpa...aft_Bearing.htm

Kyle's DIY (aka shark attack on rennlist): http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-forum/549133-im-going-in-alone-lne-retrofit-bearing.html

Edited February 7, 2012 by logray