Winter wheels/tires

[seahawkeye]

I bought a CPO 2007 997 C4S coupe (black metallic outside, gray interior) in June 2011 but winterized it a few weeks ago because I don't want it damaged in the winter. However, I've been going thru some serious withdrawals and now contemplating buying a set of winter tires and rims.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what kind of rims and tires would be good for my car? Any issues I should be aware of? I see that there are bolts and spacers sometimes needed for some wheels... how do I know if I need this? Is self-installation recommended?

Was looking at sites like tirerack.com, wheeldynamics.com, and a few others. Any suggestions on website?

Thanks for any thoughts and happy holidays.

Elliott

[Carmon997S]

Nice looking car. I can't recommend a winter tire because I've never used them but this is a link to Porsche TSB for your car.

Overview of Winter Tires, Wheels and Snow Chains (C4, C4S)

If the link doesn't work you can get to it in the DIY TOOLS at the top of the page.

[Flint]

I have a new set of Pirelli Sottozero ... they are fantastic. I put them on my stock 18 inch wheels. I will be upgrading my summer wheels to 19inch in the coming months.

[cfinstad]

I agree with Flint. The 18" Sottozeros on my 08 C4S are fantastic. I have to go pretty deep on the accelerator to get them to give me a hint of trouble on snow. Makes the car an 11 month car versus a 4 month car where I live west of Calgary, Canada, in the Rockies.

[Flint]

i think cfinstad and i agree .... I live in Toronto, Canada —I don't often drive in snowstorms ... so for me the real benefit is in cold conditions —around freezing and below on wet and dry pavement .... these tires stick ..... i say that as a person who routinely takes off ramps in the winter at 140kms (nearly 100mph for my budz south of the border) ... I would never have tried that on Blizzaks or X-Ice (had Blizzaks on my last Porsche and I have X Ice on the wife's car which is no tame ***** cat either).. ... i call the sottos winter performance tires ... not snow tires ... but i bet they do well in the slush too.

[seahawkeye]

Thanks for the response! I've been looking at tirerack.com and the only option for 18" they give me are Michelin Alpin PA2.

How do I know if I need wheel spacers or does tirerack figure this out automatically?

Also, I'm thinking of getting matte black color for the rims. Any suggestions on where to get black Porsche center wheel caps?

[seahawkeye]

Also what is the difference between 'front 18x8' versus 'front 18x8.5?'

[Flint]

I just got mine from Tirerack.com a couple of weeks ago. These will work on your car if you go with 18 inch wheels. Your car came with 19inch wheels so it may be confusing the Tirerack search engine.

235/40R-18 Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero Serie II N1 (Porsche)

265/40R-18 Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero Serie II N1 (Porsche)

Not sure about what you mean by difference between 18x8 vs. 18x8.5 ... other than the difference is in the wheel width. It's a half inch. Mine are 18x8 on the front. Look on ebay for center caps lots available.

[Flint]

One last comment .... these cars were made to be driven ... so drive them year round I say! It's a great car; but it is just a car!

[seahawkeye]

well put... exactly why I'm doing this! I couldn't find those Pirellis in 265 anymore. I've emailed one of the tirerack consultants Damon who posts a lot on 6speedonline to ask if I'm missing something

[Rayvan986]

I have the 18" Michelin Aplin PA2 snows on my '07 Carrera coupe. I bought them from the Tire Rack in November of '07 with a set of their "Cup" wheels and TPMS sensors. Total cost was $2386.00, including mounting, balancing and shipping to the Chicago area. These are the best snow tires I have ever used on any car I have ever owned. In fract, I think they perform better than the original Continental Contact 2 tires that were OEM on my car (since replaced with Michelin Pilot PS2). I had the N-spec Dunlop snows on my 2000 Boxster S, and I thought they were good until I got the Alpins. I swap them myself every fall and take them off on April 15, income tax day, and I haven't had any problems for the 4 winters I have used them using the factory wheel bolts with no spacers. The TPMS woks fine too with the Beru sensors supplied by the Tire Rack. I don't know about the Pirellis, but I can certainly vouch for the Alpin PA2s-I think they are great. Yes, they make more noise than the PS2s, but snow tires usually do that.

[seddy]

I had Michelin Alpin on a Boxster S and loved them. I now have a 2007 C4S with Pirellis Sottozero from Tirerack on their club wheels. The tires work well but the wheels are hard to balance, and the clear coat is peeling. I have driven both tires on wet, mixed, snow, and ice and they perform well (I'm in Ohio). They also work well when its dry, but below 50 degrees. The reason you are having trouble finding tires is its a bit late in the season, retailers don't carry a lot of winter tires for our cars.

[jca3]

I have the 18" Michelin Aplin PA2 snows on my '07 Carrera coupe. I bought them from the Tire Rack in November of '07 with a set of their "Cup" wheels and TPMS sensors. Total cost was $2386.00, including mounting, balancing and shipping to the Chicago area. These are the best snow tires I have ever used on any car I have ever owned. In fract, I think they perform better than the original Continental Contact 2 tires that were OEM on my car (since replaced with Michelin Pilot PS2). I had the N-spec Dunlop snows on my 2000 Boxster S, and I thought they were good until I got the Alpins. I swap them myself every fall and take them off on April 15, income tax day, and I haven't had any problems for the 4 winters I have used them using the factory wheel bolts with no spacers. The TPMS woks fine too with the Beru sensors supplied by the Tire Rack. I don't know about the Pirellis, but I can certainly vouch for the Alpin PA2s-I think they are great. Yes, they make more noise than the PS2s, but snow tires usually do that.

+1 on this setup, I have the same on my 2005 C2S. Nice tires and the "sportcup" rims from Tirerack are fine for the winter use.

[dphatch]

I just mounted a set of Sottozero II's on a dedicated set of 19" Lobster claws. Sizes were 235-35-19's and 295-30-19's . They're a little hard to find but everything I read indicated they make for a great winter set up for those living in colder climates. As your C4S comes with 19" wheels you can swap your summers for winters without the need for dedicated wheels if you're not loooking to invest in another set of wheels and TPMS sensors. Hoping to get 3 or 4 seasons of of them.

[seahawkeye]

I just bought the Michelins PA2s from tirerack (with 18" OZ Alleggrettas in black with TPMS sensors) and learned they are directional tires. Apparently you can get an extra season out of them by re-mounting the tire on the opposite wheel once per season (can not just swap the rears or the fronts because then they'll be running backwards). Also learned that 45 degrees is the general temperature at which to change to summer tires, so for me in Iowa Thanksgiving and Easter will be around the times I'll change.

I'm excited to finally get my car back this winter!!!

[brendel]

Hi everyone,

One comment though, you do not want to put 265 in the back of a larger C4 or C4S, my 2006 C4S tip is equipped for the winter with the Carrera Classic II wheel in 18 inch 295 ( back) and I can see the difference in width vs the 305 tires, ok for the winter, but it looks odd

I have been through snow storms with the C4S, it is not a SUV but much safer than a standard 2 wheel drive, I have been also to a ski resort in the swiss alps, steep drive and a lot of snow, up and down the mountain, no issues. I drive with Nokian tires (N specified )

My overall feeling is that the winter tires have less grip, maybe due to the narrower rear tires, the car really oversteers under rainy condition (which is fun), experts say under 7°C winter tires are better because they are softer, In Europe many countries are working to make winter tires mandatory, it is already the case in Germany, France is following

Regards

[PAULSPEED]

Very interesting write up about running winter tires in

Germany. I know that Switzerland is real close and

that looks like a real good place to drive a Porsche. Maybe

I will drive a Porsche in Switzerland someday(Yes it will

be during the summer).

Sorry to hear about your winter tire rules for your country.

Paul

[brendel]

Here is what I mean with the smaller 295 tires in the back, despite the fact that it is an 11 width wheel, it looks like it is not taking the full space

You can see that the car shines, just polished it and waxed it this week

[brendel]

Sorry here are the pictures

[Jgreenstine]

Just chiming into the winter tire discussion underway. Will be having Sottozeros, sourced by my local dealer from Tire Rack, installed tomorrow on new-to-me 2005 Carrera coupe. I plan to drive this everyday in suburban PHL. I'm told that Tire Rack was down to just one set of these, with the tires coming from 3 different distribution posts. So, anyone else looking for this 18" combination may have to really scramble. Will let you know of the performance issues as this so-called winter in the NE progresses.

[seahawkeye]

Well I finally received and installed the 18" Michelin Alpin PA2s. So far very happy with them this cold weekend in eastern Iowa. There was about 1-2 inches of snow on the ground (with much more around from a storm a week ago) and about 14 degrees F when I drove my car to the tire shop--this was one of the scariest driving experiences I've ever had. Obviously, my car had the summer tires on (19" Michelin Pilot Sports) but it was gliding around even on a straightaway going < 25 mph. I put my hazards on because it was nearly uncontrollable, fortunately only for a mile to the shop.

Once they were on, it was like night and day. I had great grip of the road and could turn, start, and stop (and drive straight) with full confidence. Excited to finally have it back, I even took it around some empty side streets where there was still 4-6" inches of snow and developed a good feel for how it handles on these kinds of conditions. Despite AWD/4WD, you can definitely sense the power coming from the rear as I felt a little oversteer that was pretty easily correctable.

The TPC/TPMS took a good 10 minutes or so to get adjusted to the new wheels (I had TPMS installed in all 4) but the computer found all four wheels automatically without needing to go to the dealer (but I'm not sure if the tire installer fed the serial numbers into the car before I drove it off). Did change the settings to winter tyres instead of summer in the TPC.

Can't explain in words how great it is to have the 997 back in action!

OZ had their wheel caps on so I removed then measured them and ordered some black Porsche colored wheel caps from ebay that should arrive this week. Nevertheless, here are the before and after pics as promised!

[seahawkeye]

BEFORE

[seahawkeye]

AFTER

[api]

I also bought a CPO 2007 997 C4S coupe recently and am in the market for winter tires now.

My choice tires are Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 N2 all around on 18" wheels. I drive regularly in MA,NH,VT and often enough in fresh snow, so I understand that a smaller footprint will cut deeper in snow, but will sacrifice on pavement and we do get black ice on highways often enough.

The Owner's Manual only lists 235/40 front and 295/35 rear snow tires for 18" wheels on a C4S.

(for a CS it lists 235/40 front and 265/40 rear) Tire Rack online as well as in conversation, recommends 265/40 rear for C4S and also for CS. (In fact the 295 aren't even available in matching N numbers but that's an inventory and money headache.)

I went through a circumference calculator with the following numbers for tires on wheels:

235/35 on 19" circumference is 80.037"

305/30 on 19" circumference is 82.325" (I did this to understand what difference there is front/back on my factory installed summer tires, F/B difference in summer is 2.288")

235/35 on 18" circumference is 79.802"

295/35 on 18" circumference is 82.090" <- Porsche recommended. F/B difference 2.288" same for summer and winter

265/40 on 18" circumference is 82.770" <- Tire Rack recommended. F/B difference 2.968"

So, the difference between Porsche recommended and Tire Rack recommended on a C4S for winter is 0.680" or about 1.74cm per turn of the rear wheel.

This leaves me with the following questions (and maybe some others I don't know to ask):

Mechanical: Is the 265 rear tire going to cause trouble for the AWD? The ABS? Could this cause wear in AWD as the F/B ratios will be operating differently from their default most of the time?

Handling: What will it mean for handling on ice? Given that the CS uses the 265 rear winter tire and the weight differences are not that huge (more front weight for the front diff) I am somewhat accepting that the ice handling won't be very different from a C2S, am I missing something?

I hope someone can shed more light, especially anyone who might be using 265 winter tires in rear of a C4S, thanks.

[api]

OK if anyone is reading this thread at all, I'll share what I did get after speaking directly with every party involved.

(This is all only for 2007 C4S rear winter tires on 18" wheel, and I am dispensing with profile options.)

 

Porsche Owner's Manual lists only 295 for rear winter tire, and Tire Rack lists 265, per my previous post. 

Michelin said only 295 will do. 

Porsche Dealer#1 said only 295 will do.

Porsche Dealer#2 said 295 as well as 265 will do. (Also said the AWD/PSM/ABS tolerances in "tire slip" is 3%. My calculation gives a difference <1% between 265/295 per posting above. Whether 265 in rear results in slightly more power being sent continually to front is an interesting question.)

Porsche North America said 265 is correct, and emailed me document to back it up so I am assured. 

 

Conclusion: Whatever your owner's manual says, check for more up to date info if it doesn't immediately click. 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by api