Convertible top problem

[eisenbud]

:eek: In the process of lowering the top it got stuck about 2/3 down. I disconnected the pivot arms, manually checked movement of the top which was fine. However the compartment cover was difficult to move and I also had a hard time getting the push rod pivot off. I lubed the track, now cover slides freely.

With linkages disconnected I operated the convertible top switch. Motor and right side transmission seem to be ok but no rotation/movement on left (drivers) side.

How best to determine what the problem is on the drivers side? Transmission and/or flexible shaft or other cause?

I'm new at this so any help is greatly appreciated.

[1schoir]

Bud:

Since you have a '99, first take a look at whether you have the original, smooth sided, cables or whether you (or someone else) has installed the later, improved, cross-hatched cables.

If you have the smooth-sided cables, it's likely that the one on the driver's side has stretched such that the inner, speedometer-type, cable is no longer being driven by the output flange on that side of the electric motor.

To determine whether that is the case, pull the driver's side cable out of the side of the electric motor by first removing the upside-down U-clip by pulling straight up on the clip, then pulling the end of the cable outboard. You should have between 1/2 and 3/4 of an inch of the inner cable sticking out of the sheath. If there is less than that, the cable will not be driven by the electric motor.

To cure that problem, you can either replace the cable with the updated version, or you could shorten the outer sheath of the cable by an appropriate amount by cutting away some of the vinyl material (after you remove the metal ferrule that is attached to the end).

To determine whether your transmission on that side is working properly, you can then stick the end of the speedometer cable into the chuck of a cordless drill, set it on the LOWEST torque setting, and then spin the cable with the drill. While the cable is spinning, observe the position of the V-lever on that side for any movement. If there is no movement, your cable is either broken or frayed and must be replaced. There is also the possibility that the small worm gear (where the end of the cable goes into the transmission housing) is worn or has been allowed to move out of position by the warping of the outer plastic cover.

Before you spin the cable in the drill, be sure to carefully document the starting position of the V-lever so that you can minimize the amount of time you will spend on re-synching the transmissions.

Always be careful to insure that any of the pushrods which you may have disconnected DO NOT DIG INTO THE FOAM DRAIN TRAY while you are rotating the V-levers, whether by means of the drill or of the electric button.

If you do a search here, you can find photos of what the end of the cable is supposed to look like. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll post some more.

Regards, Maurice.

[eisenbud]

Maurice

thanks for the info. Checked the cable and it had disintegrated at the motor. Managed to pull the square driver out. I removed cable sheeting and attached drill, looks like cable is twisted since there was no movement at transmission.

Suppose I have to remove v-lever to get the cable out on the trans side. Is it ok to just remove the bolt or do I need to worry about anything internal, ie, hold the v-lever in place as the bolt is removed?

I plan on getting a replacement cable and than check the trans again.

Best, Bud

[1schoir]

Maurice

thanks for the info. Checked the cable and it had disintegrated at the motor. Managed to pull the square driver out. I removed cable sheeting and attached drill, looks like cable is twisted since there was no movement at transmission.

Suppose I have to remove v-lever to get the cable out on the trans side. Is it ok to just remove the bolt or do I need to worry about anything internal, ie, hold the v-lever in place as the bolt is removed?

I plan on getting a replacement cable and than check the trans again.

Best, Bud

Bud:

You can unbolt the V-lever without worrying about anything popping off. Just be sure to either photograph or document the position of the V-lever (or both), as it is possible to install the V-lever 180 degrees off (i.e., upside down).

The V-lever is only held on with one 19mm bolt, but there is loctite on that bolt which requires some force. Once you have the V-lever off, you will have to remove three more nuts (13mm) before being able to pull the transmission off its three stud mounts. You will see the three nuts after you have peeled away the foam liner on that outside wall of the quarter panel. There are some photos of the procedure, here: http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97 . Specifically take a look starting at page 18 of the Part II PDF for instructions and photos.

Regards, Maurice.

[eisenbud]

Maurice,

used a breaker bar and got the bolt off. Cable was twisted alright but trans seems to be ok. Ordered a set of cables to replace the other side as well. So far so good...

Thanks again,

Bud

[Blangford]

Hi Maurice, I am a newbie on this forum with a 2000 boxster. I have greatly appreciated the knowledge you have graciously shared throughout this site. I currently need some assistance:

History: top is in up position, when attempting to lower the passenger side, the lid cover will not raise on that side and gots lopsided quickly (so I stopn to avoid further damage.) I have verified the motor is functioning. The old cable had the tip sheared at the motor so I have replaced it (although I need to verify that it is seated properly in transmission - it is still not working properly!). The ball ends of the push rods were definitely under pressure and I could not pop them off so I used recommended work arounds. I am not sure where to go next. I will verify seating of cable on transmission end and that cable is indeed spinning (feels like it). I would greatly appreciate any suggestions. If the transmission end is rounded out on the inside, is it possible to repair rather than replace the transmission?

Also, any further clarity regarding removal of push rods would be appreciated, we could not figure out how to get leverage (and feared having to reassemble if t takes that much force to remove :-)).

Thank you!

[1schoir]

Blang:

First verify whether you have the older, smooth sided cables that came on 1997 to late 1999 Boxsters, or whether you have the new "improved" cross-hatched surface on your faulty cable. The cross-hatched ones look like this:

If you have the cross-hatched version, you can usually pull out and insert the inner speedometer-type cable without having to remove or replace the outer (cross-hatched) black vinyl sheath. If that's the case, push the inner cable all the way into the sheath, forcing it towards the transmission as you turn it by hand to see if you can get it to "catch".

Verify that it is installed properly by inserting the end (the end closest to the electric motor) of the inner cable into the chuck of a cordless drill, then set the cordless drill on the LOWEST torque setting and spin the cable by operating the drill. Before you turn on the drill, verify and mark (and photograph for reference) the position of the V-lever. You can use white out and mark the position of the two arms of the V-lever on the black plastic round cosmetic dust cover that is directly outboard of the V-lever.

Now, observe the V-lever to see if it is rotating. It will rotate very slowly with the drill but it should move in both directions, depending on the forward or reverse setting on your drill.

If it does not rotate, and you are sure that your inner cable is intact, you will have to remove the transmission and open it up to see if the worm gear is worn or broken. Porsche does not sell parts for the transmissions individually, only complete units, but the worm gear is rarely at fault. It is usually because the cable is broken or not properly engaged.

Try that and report back with what you find.

The black "hydraulic" pushrods are under a great deal of pressure because there is a very large spring inside the black cylinder which pulls the clamshell down tight when the top is in the completely open or completely closed position. The ball cups on the end of the black pushrods are not under pressure when the clamshell is in the 45 degree position.

Be very careful not to "tweak" the clamshell by rotating one side a lot more than the other, either with the drill or with the electric motor.

Regards, Maurice.

[Blangford]

Blang:

First verify whether you have the older, smooth sided cables that came on 1997 to late 1999 Boxsters, or whether you have the new "improved" cross-hatched surface on your faulty cable. The cross-hatched ones look like this:

If you have the cross-hatched version, you can usually pull out and insert the inner speedometer-type cable without having to remove or replace the outer (cross-hatched) black vinyl sheath. If that's the case, push the inner cable all the way into the sheath, forcing it towards the transmission as you turn it by hand to see if you can get it to "catch".

Verify that it is installed properly by inserting the end (the end closest to the electric motor) of the inner cable into the chuck of a cordless drill, then set the cordless drill on the LOWEST torque setting and spin the cable by operating the drill. Before you turn on the drill, verify and mark (and photograph for reference) the position of the V-lever. You can use white out and mark the position of the two arms of the V-lever on the black plastic round cosmetic dust cover that is directly outboard of the V-lever.

Now, observe the V-lever to see if it is rotating. It will rotate very slowly with the drill but it should move in both directions, depending on the forward or reverse setting on your drill.

If it does not rotate, and you are sure that your inner cable is intact, you will have to remove the transmission and open it up to see if the worm gear is worn or broken. Porsche does not sell parts for the transmissions individually, only complete units, but the worm gear is rarely at fault. It is usually because the cable is broken or not properly engaged.

Try that and report back with what you find.

The black "hydraulic" pushrods are under a great deal of pressure because there is a very large spring inside the black cylinder which pulls the clamshell down tight when the top is in the completely open or completely closed position. The ball cups on the end of the black pushrods are not under pressure when the clamshell is in the 45 degree position.

Be very careful not to "tweak" the clamshell by rotating one side a lot more than the other, either with the drill or with the electric motor.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

Thank you for the guidance! I will give this a shot within the next few days and report back. Thank ou again for all f your support.

Bryan

[Blangford]

Hi Maurice. I verified I have the new cable which allows one to pull the square metal shaft back and forth through the sheath. I pulled it back from the motor end and then tried to gently push it back towards the transmission while turning to "catch" it for engagement. It seemed to possibly stop and catch with ~3/4" remaining on the motor end....but no success. I tried again and it actually seemed to possibly seat a little deeper, but still no success.

One other note, as I unplug both left and right cables from the motor and then power the switch, it operates smoothly and very quietly (motor only, no load). As I hook up the problem side (passenger), and power the motor I can feel vibration through the sheath (turning?) and the sound level is noticeably louder (not sure if this if from the turning of cable or the transmission attempting to work.). From the cabin, it sounds like it originates from the trans area but from the outside I could not "feel" any motion through the mechanisms.

It seems as though my next step is to pull the transmission again to verify the cable is properly in position (and turning from motor.). I would appreciate any other suggestions greatly! If it does turn out to be a sudden failure of the transmission, do you have any recommendations for a cost effective source? (I am assuming used salvage may not be wise given the wear nature of this component???)

Thanks again,

Bryan

[1schoir]

Bryan:

Take a look at post #4 in this thread for instructions and photos on how to remove the transmission. Once you take it off and take it apart, you should be able to verify the cause of the inner cable not driving the transmission. Take some photos and post them here with what you find.

Used transmissions, as long as they are the "B Version" (manufactured by "Stehle") are fine if you can find them, as the problem you are having (i.e., not strictly cable related) is relatively rare.

If you can visit a forum for Spec Boxster Racing, you should be able to get one (or both sides) at a very reasonable price, as those guys remove the transmissions and the top when they are converting their cars to Spec Racers.

Regards, Maurice.

[eisenbud]

Maurice,

this is a follow-up to confirm successful repair of the top problem by replacing the left side flex cable. While at it I also replaced the right side cable. All along I tried to determine the cause of failure.

Here's my take: Lack of pivot point lubrication caused the left side to "freeze" half way up while the motor was running and caused flex cable to break. I had a tough time getting the pivot disconnected and after I replaced the flex cables I greased the pivots as well as the track on both sides. Everything moved freely and the pivots could be engaged/disengaged with minimal force.

(using a 2' breaker bar made removal of the trans bolts easy)

Regards,

Bud

[Blangford]

Maurice,

Thanks again for your assistance and mentoring. As suspected, I did not have the cable fully seated into the transmission.....problem fixed!!!

I now notice the top movement is slightly uneven despite my attempts to align each side, but it is small. I also noticed the movement being slightly "jumpy" so I plan to lubricate the track with a grease lubricant. Any recommendations for this or which "pivot points" also may need lubricated?

Finally, the top seems to move relatively smoothly and then experiences a small sudden "drop" the last six inches or so when closing. I think lube may solve this as well but I would appreciate any recommendations or suggestions.

I hope you enjoyed a Merry Christmas and have a wonderful New Year's.

Thanks again!

Bryan

[1schoir]

Bryan:

Here is a rough DIY on lubricating the convertible top mechanism that I wrote up a couple of years ago:

You can lubricate the various friction points of the convertible top mechanism. You can easily tell if your top mechanism needs lubrication by disconnecting the joints at the V-levers and operating the top and the clamshell manually. If it's properly aligned and lubricated, both should be almost effortless to move back and forth (open and closed). Note that you must first remove the cosmetic black plastic covers that are attached to each of the clamshell arms. They can just be pulled off and later snapped back on.

Starting with the clamshell, there are four points to lubricate:

1. The joint where the black hydraulic pushrod attaches to the clamshell arm at its rearmost point. Note that there is a small plastic sleeve bushing (part #999 924 126 00) that sometimes wears out here and which is located in the hole in the clamshell arm, and through which the pushrod's metal pin gets inserted and is fastened with the speednut-type clip.

2. The cup end on the black hydraulic pushrod where it snaps on to the metal ball on the V-lever.

3. The metal guide rail (channel) where the black square plastic slider to which the forward part of the clamshell arm is attached and slides back and forth.

4. The metal ball on the end of the forward part of the clamshell arm and the cup in the middle of the square plastic slider where it is pressed in.

For the convertible top side, there is one lubrication point which is easily accessible, and another part that must be checked:

1. The plastic cup on the front adjustable mechanical pushrod (this pushrod is connected to the opposite side of the V-lever) where it presses onto the metal ball under the B-Pillar of the convertible top frame. This one is easier to access if you open the top about 12 to 16 inches.

2. Verify that the rubber bush (part # 986 561 881 00) which is located where the mechanical pushrod is attached to the V-lever is intact. If it isn't in one piece, or is missing, it will allow that mechanical pushrod to move around and cause play and noise in operation. This is a very common wear part that does not hold up with time.

For the above lubrication points, you can use spray (or paste) white lithium grease after you have thoroughly cleaned the areas to be lubricated. Use it sparingly, it's not necessary to gob it up. Another good lubricant for these points is Dupont Krytox. It is more expensive than white lithium grease but it is less messy and will not attract dirt.

Finally, unclip the transmission cables where they attach to each side of the electric motor and drip in some cable lube (liquid graphite lock fluid is also okay) while holding that end of the cable elevated.

There are a few more points that could use lubrication, but they are not as easily accessible as the above. For example, if you are ambitious, you can remove the transmissions and lubricate the worm gear on the other end of the cable, and the half-moon (or round gear on later models) gear after you remove the black plastic covers from the underside of the transmissions.

Thanks for the holiday wishes. Hope you and your family had the same.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited January 3, 2012 by 1schoir

[Wesley Aarsen]

Hi guys I am running into the a different problem (i have a porsche boxster from 98)

I shorten my cables and this seemed to work , both transmissions worked however when installing the pushrods and testing the roof not verything worked according to plan somehow the pushrods got disconnected but more alarming I think my transmission on the driver side failed, I can now freely move around the v lever on the transmission (do you guys think my transmission is a dead now?)

Edited January 23, 2012 by Wesley Aarsen

[Craig Neid]

Hello all. Related topic - 1997 Boxster, top got in a bind position and bent a bunch of parts. In replacing these via trusted independent mechanic said the top transmission mounts are no longer secured to the body (broken welds?) and this issue is causing the whole system to flex and bind. Further that this is a known issue with early 986’s. Anyone heard of this or better yet know of a way to repair it?  Mechanic informed me this is a collision type repair. Last note:  local dealer is a horror show. Thanks much.