I just changed my oil (0W 40 Mobil 1) CEL came on with P1524

[J_STATUS]

I just changed my oil (0W 40 Mobil 1) CEL came on with P1524.

I know it is not linked to oil change but it happened right after.

The car is at normal 500-600 RPM idle (but rough) Located in California.

The code is saying 2 different things...

1. Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 2.

2. No triggering of the actuator, active position nevertheless. Potential causes: Short to ground or Actuator faulty.

Now I have read some things....

But I'm still completely confused on what and where to start.

What would you suggest I check first.... before taking further steps such as dealerships diagnose and what not.

Thanks!

[Loren]

P1524 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 2

Possible causes:

- Short to ground.

- Actuator faulty.

[Rapewta]

I have a suggestion. Pick up an OBDII reader (the $75.00 one) at the local auto parts store.

Clear the CEL. Sounds like you might already have the OBDII because you pulled the fault codes.

The same code came up on my car shortly after I got it. I cleared it (twice) and it has never came back.

I realize this is not the correct way to take care of your car but sometimes you will get spurious CELs.

Changing your oil has nothing to do with it.

[J_STATUS]

Thanks for the input. I actually do have the OBD2 scanner. I got the P1524. So you suggested that I clear it up? What about the rough idle?

[logray]

The rough idle is because the actuator is stuck "on". Above about 1700-300rpm (depending on conditions) the engine will run smooth again.

Likely the variocam actuator needs to be replaced, or at the very least variocam solenoid. Both require removing the camshaft cover and some special tools. Do-able without removing the engine, but easier with the engine dropped.

You can try to clear the code, it won't hurt. But if the actuator is still "broken" the CEL will come right back on.

Edited November 6, 2011 by logray

[Rapewta]

Logray...

What you suggested is true.

While that is the correct repair to his rough idle, I had the same problem only from 600 to 700 rpm. It was searching.

I did a "search" here and tried the 'clean the throttle body with carb cleaner" and my car stopped doing it.

I also cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner. Don't know if that had anything to do with it but it didn't hurt.

[logray]

Certainly if you clean the IACV, TB, MAF, fix intake leaks, etc. that can clear up searching.

But if he is getting rough idle along with those codes, the actuator is probably stuck.

Sorry to the OP if I missed this, but what model year if your car?

If it is an 2002 or later the repair procedure is much different than 1999-2001 cars.

Also, something to try. First ensure the oil level is proper. Then take it out for a good thrashing/spirited drive. Sometimes the actuators or vane adjusters can get clogged up and a good drive or two has been reported to "ungum" them.

Edited November 6, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

Thanks for the reply guys.

First I will do is clear the code then drive for about 50 miles and see if it comes back or not.

Since it's doable to change the actuator with the engine in. Has anybody done it here to give me some advice?

[logray]

edit: sorry still did not get your model year car, this info below is for 2002-2005 3.6L 996 engines only.

Have a look at this thread, it might shed some light:

http://www.renntech....-oil-what-is-it

Also are you the same person that is posting about the same issue over on 6speed?

Edited November 7, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

Thanks man. Yeah that's me in 6Speed....

Few questions:

- Is there 2 actuator sensors on each head, total of 4?

- How hard is it to replace the actuator with the engine in the car?

- How hard is it to drop the engine? Any links?

Thanks for the input man... I have a local mechanic that's willing to help me wrench on my car.

[J_STATUS]

My year is '99 3.4L. Hey I noticed that you are in Norcal and have done the actuator install for your own car. Can you give me some clue of what I'm dealing with here as far as what to do, what not to do. Maybe if you are close by and willing to offer your mechanical service it would be great. Let me know how much you charge. Thanks!

edit: sorry still did not get your model year car, this info below is for 2002-2005 3.6L 996 engines only.

Have a look at this thread, it might shed some light:

http://www.renntech....-oil-what-is-it

Also are you the same person that is posting about the same issue over on 6speed?

edit: sorry still did not get your model year car, this info below is for 2002-2005 3.6L 996 engines only.

Have a look at this thread, it might shed some light:

http://www.renntech....-oil-what-is-it

Also are you the same person that is posting about the same issue over on 6speed?

[logray]

Ok, cool, I figured it must have been the same person since the questions were so similar.

OK, now that I know what year car you have then the story changes dramatically.

Here is my psuedo write-up on this procedure (you don't need to remove the heads or go nearly as far into tear down as I did).

https://picasaweb.google.com/996pcarnut/Engine (From my thread http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-forum/644150-1-rebuilt-engine-1-month-and-325-pictures-later.html which includes several links to engine drop DIYs)

First and foremost if you plan to do this yourself get your hands on the 996 workshop manual.

Unfortunately on the 1999-2001 year cars, replacing an actuator is not an easy task compared with the later 3.6L engines, nor is it very cheap to do. Brand new, the actuators run about $700 and the solenoids are about $150. You can find used parts for a lot less, but unless you are in a bind financially I wouldn't cut any corners here.

The actuator and solenoid (1 per side) are both under the camshaft cover. In order to replace them you have to lock the camshafts in place with a special tool (I made my own but also later bought two types of factory tools). Then you remove the camshaft cover. Next you have to use another special tool to compress the actuator mechanism so you can replace it. The camshaft cover then gets reinstalled with a 1-1.5mm bead of Loctite 5900 or Dreibond and 23 cam cover bolts torqued in a very specific sequence. That is a very tricky part, and you should also replace the cam cover bolts with new micro-encapsulated ones or at least clean and apply silicone to the existing ones.

The last thing you have to do here is re-time the engine, this is a critical part. There are several write ups on this, but this is by far the best one I've seen for this MY car:

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/26418-diy-setting-cam-timing-m96.html

You can do the procedure with the engine in car, but honestly having had my engine out three times now, and removing and reinstalling the actuators the same number of times, I wouldn't attempt it myself with the engine in car. With my big hands I would probably spend just as much time fumbling around in tight spaces and screw something up. Dropping the engine is really not as difficult as it may seem. The first time through you might spend a day at it but once you are good, I did it for my third time in just under 4 hours. Reinstall perhaps a little less. This is with a manual car of course.

And I would certainly love to help out, but I'm over towards Tahoe near Auburn, CA. If you decide to do this all on your own and are still in a bind I suppose if you paid my gas and maybe a little something more (would have to work that out through PM), I could head over to the bay area with all my tools. We could probably do it in a full long day.

If you do plan to do this and your friend mechanic has not worked on a Porsche before I encourage the both of you to read as much as you can about doing this before diving in. It's not rocket science, but there are plenty of opportunities to do things wrong.

There is a Porsche dealer, Sonnen Porsche in the bay area who has great pricing if you buy online.

[J_STATUS]

Hey thanks a lot for all your input. As for right now....

I'm going to clear the code and drive the car about 50 miles and see if the CEL comes back. If it does then I will start to search around for cheaper replacement for the actuator/solenoid. I know you mention around $700/150. But If I do a little bit of research I should find a cheaper one. Yes money is tight right now, currently out of work.

I know my mechanical experience is just bolt ons/external like headers, alternators, intake manifold and such. I know this is a different ball game, where it is critical as far as timing the car, locking the cams, which I'm not familiar with at all. So I have not done any on the Porsche, only on my previous cars.

Once I get some prices on the part and other things necessary to do this repair I would most likely ask for your assistance perhaps full service. I feel safer that way that you know what you are doing compare to me "first timer". Of course I will pay your way here and your time/labor. But we still have to get the numbers down because of my tight budget.... I will probably have to save up few more....

If I can work with the engine in the car then that's good. I usually get into tight spaces, don't mind a few cuts on my hands. It's just me hearing dropping the engine is so major... but I hear it's easy?

I was just in Tahoe a week ago... stayed in a Cabin with few friends for his birthday and went to Reno... awesome. Thanks again.

[logray]

You really wont find cheaper prices unless you go used which I wouldn't recommend.

The cheapest you can find the actuator assembly brand new is at Sunset Porsche or Sonnen Porsche (there are a few others, but they only differ by a dollar or two). Your only other option would be someone who bought a unit but didn't install it.

Anyhow, the actuator assembly for bank 2 (which comes with a solenoid) runs $726.86 (discounted price).

Other parts both required and while you are in there as follows, these are the cheapest you can get them (a few cents less at Sunset Porsche in Oregon):

Bank 2 Variocam actuator (incl solenoid) 99610505358 $726.86

Green cam cover plugs 99610522352 qty 3 $48.69 total

Variocam pads & o-ring (comes with new actuator)

5th timing chain 99610517053 qty 1 $22.94

qty 23 micro encapsulated cam cover bolts 99938500301 $30.59 total

3 spark plug tubes 99610532552 $14.61 total

3 spark plug tube big orings 99970721540 $7.86 total

3 spark plug tube small orings 99970734341 $3.99 total

Oil pump o-ring 99970755440 $2.62

Oil drain washer 90012310630 $0.82

Blue loctite $6.00

Tube of loctite 5900 qty 1 $6.00

Since the oil must be drained, recommend an oil change $75 for oil and a filter (both at discount pricing), unless you've done that recently.

All in total about $1000 worth of parts not including tax. I wouldn't feel comfortable dealing with used parts on someone else's car.

A shop with the proper tools and expertise would charge probably 5-8 hours labor @ appx. $125/hr (not including engine drop, this would be doing it in car, engine drop and reinstall would add another 6-8 hours). By the way doing bank 2 passenger side actuator in car I've heard is much more difficult than bank 1 with engine in car.

If someone has the book time for this repair that would be great, but my above figures are inline with what I've seen other shops charge ($2500-$3000 range for this repair).

There are also a few sanity checks to perform before diving into the engine. FIrst, is to ensure the cam position sensors are behaving as they should. This can be done by swapping them between banks which takes a good hour and a half or so. If the problem follows the bank then the CPS can be replaced relatively easily for $175. Second, it is worth it to apply 12 volts manually to the variocam solenoid and also ohm it out before buying the expensive actuator assembly. If it is just the solenoid, those only run you about $140 or so, instead of $725.

I would be willing to help, but I have to caution I am not a mechanic and so there are a bunch of things that go along with that. For starters the work wouldn't be guaranteed like it would be with a shop, instead it would just be two Porsche owners and enthusiasts/neighbors getting together to "work on cars".

If you can afford it, you would certainly be better off finding someone who is local and has reasonable shop rates that you could hold accountable. I heard about traveling Porsche mechanics advertising on Craigslist. Although I'm very familiar with this car and engine at this point and have put 1000 miles on my car after the repair, I am by no means an expert.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 9, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

Thanks again. Very overwhelming but with your input it gives me an idea where I'm at. I will keep you posted on things...

[J_STATUS]

Here's the update. Today we cleared the code then reset the odometer trip to 0. So we drove it for a few miles, plan was to drive it for 50 miles. But the CEL came back on at 36.6 miles with rough idling at stop lights.

I went home to check the CEL and not only the P1524 came back, also additional codes appeared which are P 1319, 1318, 1317, 1314. Great......

[logray]

Yes an actuator in really bad shape will cause misfires due to the timing being off.

Probably a good time to stop driving the car unless it's driven to a nearby shop or repaired in your garage (or towed if it is a long distance).

Edited November 10, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

So do I disregard your message:

"There are also a few sanity checks to perform before diving into the engine. FIrst, is to ensure the cam position sensors are behaving as they should. This can be done by swapping them between banks which takes a good hour and a half or so. If the problem follows the bank then the CPS can be replaced relatively easily for $175. Second, it is worth it to apply 12 volts manually to the variocam solenoid and also ohm it out before buying the expensive actuator assembly. If it is just the solenoid, those only run you about $140 or so, instead of $725."

And continue with the actuator replace for $1000+? Or is there any other things I should check before I jump into big bucks repair?

What does CPS stands for cam position sensor or crank position sensor?

[logray]

CPS acronym could stand for camshaft or crankshaft position sender. On the 1999 engine there are two camshaft position senders (1 per head), and 1 crankshaft (flywheel) position sender.

If this were my own car on my own time I would still swap the camshaft position sensors (hall senders), but doing this would probably be pointless because your car has all the symptoms of a failed actuator. It is a PITA though to swap the sensors, you pretty much have to gut the passenger side of the engine, and remove the air conditioning compressor unless you have very tiny hands, even then might not be possible. Time consuming and process oriented task.

It is very simple to test the actuator solenoids with a multimeter and a 12v+ supply, so I would still attempt that regardless of the car, a very simple task once you disconnect the leads.

So in short, yes - probably 95% or greater chance you are looking at an actuator replacement (appx $1k parts, $1-1.5k labor at an independent shop - I've also recently observed Porsche dealers will drop their labor prices if you shop around). After all the data, a corner case would be a CPS, solenoid, or wiring problem (also DME can be a problem in that sometimes they will short out the solenoids but that is extremely rare).

Why not post a shout out to find a good shop in the bay area, whereabouts are you located again? You might find a good shop using search, I remember reading about a few, just can't recall the names.

edited for accuracy.

Edited November 10, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

I have a friend that is currently going to Wyotech in Fremont. He currently does side jobs. He said he will help me do this repair with no charge. As it would be a learning experience for him. He has all the necessary book, file, data to do the job with his tech account. He showed my a step by step engine removal for my car. So the only thing I have to worry about is buying the parts.

I don't mind having a long process of work, like partially putting time in. I can leave the car in the garage for a month or two because he still goes to school in Fremont so the time will be totally up to him.

So the first thing you suggest we do is to run a test on the actuator solenoid with a multimeter and a 12+ supply correct?

Overall from the symptoms the car is having it is the faulty actuator.

If you don't mind perhaps you can talk to my friend/mechanic to discuss things further. Because this is far beyond my knowledge, it would be great if you can assist by phone (at your convenience of course) Talk about technical, strategy etc. on how to execute things.

Thanks a lot for all your help.

I have looked in Craigslist for local Porsche mechanic and only one guy appeared on the search and he has apparently has hurt his back recently and won't be back in a month. He did recommend a shop in Berkeley or Emeryville, but since I have a mechanic friend that's willing to help out it would definitely help a lot as far as money and labor goes.

[J_STATUS]

Also should I be concern about mouse/mice eating my harness'?

Knowing that my car will be in the garage for a few weeks or months....

I do have mice around the kitchen but not a heavy traffic, maybe 1-3 I've seen in like 3-4 months...

What could I do to prevent mice from eating up wires?

Because if they do, it will be a huge damage electrically and no one would like that...

[logray]

For the mice, I've heard and seen a couple things.

1.) Leave the trunk lid open when you park it, and close the trunk latch so the light turns off. The rodents think it is slightly less "cozy" in there and won't try to nest. 2.) If in longer term storage, put rat bait or mouse bait in the engine bay.

Your engine problem is likely internal and the actuator is bad... very small chance at this point the wiring, ECU, or solenoid are bad, but those are "corner case" possibilities.

[logray]

So the first thing you suggest we do is to run a test on the actuator solenoid with a multimeter and a 12+ supply correct?

Yes with the engine idling, apply 12 volts manually to the bank 2 (passenger side) solenoid. If idle doesn't change, problem is with actuator inside the head. Also disconnect the solenoid which connects near the 4-6 AOS crank vent/breather tube, since IIRC the DME grounds the solenoid to actuate the variocam mechanism. If the idle does change then the problem could be with the DME or solenoid, at which point check back here for addtl. troubleshooting steps.

Additionally, with engine not running, ohm out the 2 solenoid pins passenger side (rear of car, side of camshaft cover), should see 13 ohms appx to validate the solenoid is OK. If it ohms out OK, then you will still end up getting a new solenoid when you buy an actuator (they are bundled from the factory).

If you don't mind perhaps you can talk to my friend/mechanic to discuss things further. Because this is far beyond my knowledge, it would be great if you can assist by phone (at your convenience of course) Talk about technical, strategy etc. on how to execute things.

I would be fine with that, but first I would ask this person do four things.

1.) Read this thread in it's entirety and examine the links I have provided (including the 300+ pictures with comments I posted which contain very pertinent information regarding how to solve your engine's actuator problem)..

2.) Spend time to research renntech.org and rennlist.com for write-ups on this procedure, I am certainly not the first shade-tree to do this.

3.) Obtain (search for) a copy of the official "996 workshop manual" and read the parts in the Engine documents pertinent to actuator replacement.

4.) Based on the research, compile a list of questions to discuss.

Lastly I encourage you once again to spend the money for a reliable Porsche mechanic to perform this work, especially since you will need to spend $1000 on parts and the proper running of your engine is at stake. Remember that this is an expensive sports car and engine replacements cost nearly as much as your car is worth. A big mistake by anyone could cost you $6000-$12000 for a used engine or $15000-$20000 for a new engine.

Edited November 11, 2011 by logray

[J_STATUS]

Will do, thanks a lot man.... right now I'm on stand by until me and my friend talk and figure out when to start it.

[J_STATUS]

Are these all the complete parts I will need to do this repair? I just recently did my oil change. Is there anything on the list that is not "really" necessary? I'm short in budget at the moment.

If the is being dropped, do we need new transmission oil and coolant?

Bank 2 Variocam actuator (incl solenoid) 99610505358 $726.86

Green cam cover plugs 99610522352 qty 3 $48.69 total

Variocam pads & o-ring (comes with new actuator)

5th timing chain 99610517053 qty 1 $22.94

qty 23 micro encapsulated cam cover bolts 99938500301 $30.59 total

3 spark plug tubes 99610532552 $14.61 total

3 spark plug tube big orings 99970721540 $7.86 total

3 spark plug tube small orings 99970734341 $3.99 total

Oil pump o-ring 99970755440 $2.62

Oil drain washer 90012310630 $0.82

Blue loctite $6.00

Tube of loctite 5900 qty 1 $6.00

Since the oil must be drained, recommend an oil change $75 for oil and a filter (both at discount pricing), unless you've done that recently.

All in total about $1000 worth of parts not including tax. I wouldn't feel comfortable dealing with used parts on someone else's car.