dreaded error codes

[mstimely]

Hello, first i would like to thank all that contribute to this site. it is a wonderful resource to have when the porsche goes rogue on me. secondly i want to apologize because im sure that somewhere in the annals of the posts and blogs is already my answer but... it is sometimes easier to ask that to research. so- error codes 0410 and 1411, secondary air injection system, what im looking for is the most likely suspect, also have had error codes 0420 and 0430 on for some time, i know they are o2 sensor codes. i have replaced all four sensors but the codes persist. drives fine up to two days ago when the 0410 and 1411 codes came up and started idling a bit rough until it got running.

Thanks.

[JFP in PA]

Congratulations on spending both time and money on the wrong things. P0420 and 0430 point to three way cat conversion being too low on both cylinder banks; they have nothing to do with the O2 sensors performance.

P0410 and 1411 indicate the secondary air injection system failure (P0410 indicates the air injection pump is not triggering, P1411 likewise indicates the secondary air pump is not working properly due to air line restriction, failed change over valve or vacuum leaks). I would be willing to bet all of the codes are related to the secondary air system malfunction.

Don’t dread codes, be thankful for them and research what they are telling you; while they point you in the correct direction much like a compass; they require an application of diagnostic logic for them to get you to your destination, much as a GPS would……………

Edited November 3, 2011 by JFP in PA

[mstimely]

thanks for the reply,

the car has 120,000 mles on it so i dont mind the o2 sensors, i do all my own work since i am already a aviation mechanic, therefore the work is no great loss either. but wisdom tells us that walking where there are already footsteps is sure footing. that being said, what is causing the 0420 and 0430 codes if not the o2 sensors? do i need new cats? a valve job? I dont really dread the codes just frustrated at tracking down a problem in an unfamiliar system. as for the secondary, im aware of what it could be. what i was looking for was the most likely suspect based on others experience.

[JFP in PA]

If an O2 sensor is ever in question, there are a series of pass/fail electrical test for the sensor and its heater that should be done before replacing them. If the sensor passes, there is nothing wrong with it, the issue lies elsewhere.

P0420 and 0430 indicate that the three way cats on both banks are bad, which is very odd to say the least as they rarely die, much less do it in unison. Add in the codes for issues with the secondary air injection system, which will impact the cat’s performance, and I would say they appear connected. The air injections system on these cars is infamous for all sorts of issues ranging from component failure (particularly the change over valve), to blocked air lines (easy to fix), vacuum leaks, to totaled air pumps. While none of this stuff is exactly cheap, and entirely new secondary air system, installed by the slowest and most outrageously priced Porsche dealer on Earth, is not going to set you back what the three way cats are going to do. And replacing the cats is not going to fix the secondary air issue.

Do some searching and look into the air system, it ain’t happy……….

Edited November 3, 2011 by JFP in PA

[mstimely]

thanks again,

the error codes 0430 and 0420 are about a year old now, thinking they were telling me i needed new cats i basically ignored them. but just the other day when the cold idle was rough i decided to run the codes again, thats when the 0410 and 1411 popped up, I will delve into the air system this weekend, but you think this could also be the problem with the 0430 and 0420 codes? i hate to replace the cats if i dont absolutely have to.

[JFP in PA]

I would not buy the cats both dying at the same time until you fix the air injection system and the car stays free of the associated codes. If the cat codes come back, then you may have a cat issue, but I have never seen both cats go out simultaneously; they don’t crap out all that often one at a time, much less both of them at once. But if the cat codes do return, without the air injection codes, they are probably toast.

[mstimely]

Ok, spent the day going over the secondary air injection sys. Found a plug on the pump that was suspiciously loose but nothing else or obvious mechanical malfunction. Reset all codes and went for coffee. Car seems to have less pep than normal but drives fine. After about a half hour cel light comes on. I pull 0420 as the only code. Suggestions? I plan on ordering the critical parts for the secondary system but that is just my tendency to "shotgun" a problem. I would love someone to give me a definitive answer to the real source of the problem.

[mstimely]

Ok now I'm a bit confused,

In pulling a 0420 code I will assume the the cat is shot, big question is it the cat that comes directly off the manifold or the rear one? Based on price I can assume its the one off the manifold ( most costly) can anyone confirm?

[logray]

I'm not sure about the cat removal on a Boxster, but why not source a used cat if you plan to "shotgun" it? $600 for example at dcauto.com.

I'm not sure what you mean by which cat. Or by "rear one" do you mean the silencer/muffler? There are only two cats on the car. Not sure if your MY but if it is for 2002 or less here are the part numbers:

99611302306

99611302406

I would still stick to JFP's plan though, and fix the 2ndary air problems first, then clear the codes and then go for the cats.

At least on a 996 it is very simple to remove a cat, about 6 bolts to loosen off, and it drops straight out.

Edited November 6, 2011 by logray

[mstimely]

When I google catalytic converters for the boxster I get a result for the rear cat not the one directly off of the header. This is what is confusing me. All the parts manufacturers call the silencers/ mufflers catalytic converters. Including dc auto! So this is where the problem lies, sheer confusion. Upside is that I had the car out today and it ran good. Zero to a hundred in few enough ticks that I didn't have time to really count more than about 6 secs. Cel light still on but running good.

[mstimely]

The "starter catalytic " as it is called by dc auto then there is the rear catalytic? So which on is the one that needs replaced?

[RFM]

At the end it is the DME which trow the cat. error code, the DME get that info from the values given by the pre and post cat. O² sensors. In other words it concerns the cat. between both sensors (the controlled one). The other cat. on the same cylinder bank has no sensors and therefor not controlled by the system and no fault code showed. The good functioning of the uncontrolled cat. can be checked by performing a supplementary exhaust gas test (4 gas test O² - CO² - HC - CO)

[mstimely]

Ok I got it now, it's is the starter cat that is at the root of my mystery. I've done all the reading about eliminating these but I don't see much on how that effects monitoring? I wouldn't mind hearing what everyone's experiences are with options of new oem vs aftermarket/ sport setup?