Need a rebuilt engine in South NJ due to Intermix

[lendy]

Hello All,

Found I have the Intermix problem on a 2000 996 with 73k miles.

The oil cooler is solid so must be the engine the dealer tells me.

Anyone have any experience with Motor Meister rebuilds?

http://www.motormeister.com/suz/911_engines/911_engines_5.htm

The price is about $6k to rebuild my engine, sound fair?

[CabC2]

PM sent.

[CabC2]

Btw, the dealer telling you does not mean anything. There is a difference between for example a cracked head gasket at around 2.5k, or a cracked cylinder requiring a full rebuild. I have sent you a PM for a good engine, but before you might want to take the car to a reputable indy, and have him look at it.

[phillipj]

Hello All,

Found I have the Intermix problem on a 2000 996 with 73k miles.

The oil cooler is solid so must be the engine the dealer tells me.

Anyone have any experience with Motor Meister rebuilds?

http://www.motormeis...1_engines_5.htm

The price is about $6k to rebuild my engine, sound fair?

Please stay away from MotorMeister. They are bad news....Used parts, Poor workmanship etc...Do a search here and you will get more bad reviews.

[anotherporscheowner]

This is not an attempt to derail their business model, but it is important that one consider these points should anyone decide to have them disassemble an engine and then reassemble it again. Call this a public service announcement and you are free to make your own informed descision. This post is as objective and factual as it can be. Just reading what they have to sell and asking myself, would I do that to my own engine? I am a Porsche owner, but not a business owner, nor employed in the trade.

Some of the fine print quoted from their auction:

"Price listed do not cover any shipping, installations, removals, taxes, towing, storage, oils, lubes and gas. Prices maybe substantially higher. Pictures and Videos are for illustration only. Price listed do not cover any parts that are broken, burnt, bent, worn or incorrect."

"All Porsche motors sold come with full warranty on all parts and labor sold!"

"Returns: 7 day money back, buyer pays return shipping"

"all parts listed above are on rebuilding customer’s motor & parts keeping original case serial numbers"

The auction claims to sell the buyer about $900 worth (retail price before discount) of parts and re-uses everything else already in your engine. I'm not saying that it wouldn't freshen up a few components and do some good with all the cleaning and inspection they claim to do and with those new parts. And it is a good thing if there is actual two-way customer interaction during the rebuild and if they notice a problem and a part is replaced. I'm on the fence with that respect since I don't have personal experience with their process, but if you are OK with that type of business model instead of being up front and straightforward and honest up front about what needs to be done then that is your choice.

Regarding the intermix repair. I'm not saying they couldn't repair one, becaue I'm sure they could have the heads repaired, but that is not listed in this auction description. In short, the chances of an ebay motormeister rebuild repairing an intermix issue due to cracked head or cylinder (or even oil cooler or AOS) are just about 0%. There is a 0.000000000001% chance it would get fixed, because one of the genuine parts they do actually replace are the head gaskets - which pretty much never fail on this engine.

There are many bullet points listed in their auction that I would ask for more qualification on, you can be the judge depending on their answers. I am sure they are fully capable of performing these services as detailed correctly below, however since they are not included in the auction description prepared to pay substantially more than their $6,000 price tag. And to their credit, they do offer this warning in their auction as I quoted above that it could cost considerably more.

• They "prep" the cylinder walls. The only possible preparation for used, worn, and oval Lokasil cylinders are 1.) overbore with weight matched piston (which apparently has low success probability), 2.) cast iron sleeves (which is not recommended due to heat), 3.) Nikasil sleeves, or 4) crankcase replacement. I would ask motormeister exactly what they do to prep the cylinders. Do they use any abrasives or polishing agents on the Lokasil? How do they plan to make up the difference in clearance once the material is gone if they are re-using your old stock pistons and new piston rings?
  
• They test and clean the piston jets. But these are $6.50 items, why not just replace them?
  
• They list "German" for crankshaft. Well, yes it is German, but how does that apply to the work they are doing on it?
  
• They say the connecting rods will "rebuilt in spec". If a rod needs to be rebuilt, it should be replaced. Or how do they plan to rebuild it?
  
• They reuse your existing pistons and only provide you with "1 piston rings". So are they reusing 5 of your existing rings, or is this a typo and they mean 6 ring sets? (which increases the parts cost by $600 up to $1500 MSRP if they replace all six ring sets) The chances of getting a good ring seal and compression by using your old pistons and new rings without any "documented to work" cylinder preparation (as I list above) are slim to none.
  
• The valve job does not appear to include pressure or vacuum testing, which are critical - especially in the case of intermix repair. Even without the repair, how will they know if there are not any cracks or if they've achieved good valve seat seal once they are done with the cuts?
  
• In the valve job, they make no mention of inspecting the valves or valve guides for tolerances, and replacing them should they be too worn. This is perhaps one of the most critical parts of the valve job.
  
• They clean and inspect the "valve holder cage". I think they mean lifter carrier.
  
• They flush out the oil cooler. Since the water and oil pumps do a pretty good job of flushing it out continuously as you run the engine, what would be more useful is to pressure test it to see if it is the source of intermix.
  
• There is a lot of resurfacing of mating surfaces, and while this is a good idea for certain things such as heads and crank case, it is questionable practice in my opinion for things like oil pump housing, thermostat housing, oil pan, etc.
  
• They say they will hand inspect, dissaseemble, reassemble and reseal your 2 oil pumps. The engine has 3 oil pumps, not 2. The two scavange pumps are not meant to be dissasembled, and on a high milage engine, they should just be replaced at about $150 each. On the third main oil pump, the piston, spring, and hex driver should be replaced.
  
• They polish the IMS tube shaft journals. Well last I checked the IMS tube rides on a film of oil on the oil pump console at one end and the controversial sealed ims bearing at the other end. The tube has sprockets for the drive chains and crank, but where are the journals they speak of?
  
• Assuming a high milaege engine, several lifters are likely colllapsed at which point the guidance is to replace them ALL.
  
• They resurface the camshaft bearings, yet do they also build up and regrind the cam shaft so it mates properly?
  
• They inspect the cam covers for chain damage. If any of the chains came into contact with the camshaft cover during normal operation, the engine would be toast.
  
• They inspect and clean the 3 paddle/chain tensioners yet on a high milage engine should be replaced especially if there is scoring, at about $75 each.
  
• They make no mention of inspecting for mushrooming or replacing the variocam actuators.
  
• There is no mention of replacing the main drive chains or IMS to crank chain on a 5 chain engine, nor the chain paddles.
  
• There is no mention of inspecting the coil packs or replacing spark plugs
  
• There is no mention of replacing the air oil seperator, another $100 item prone to failure and while you are in there.
  
• No mention of inspecting or replacing worn hoses or tubes
  
• No mention of inspecting or overhauling the secondary air injection system.
  
• They don't replace the oil filler tube, which is very inexpnsive and prone to leaks.
  
• There are countless orings and gaskets such as the intake manifold, intake riser, throttle body, brake booster to intake, cam position sensor orings, AOS tube orings, AOS breather, etc. etc. etc. they do not mention will be replaced.
  
• They make no mention of replacing the main or head bolts, as they are single use items. Once they've been stretched to torque you have to toss them in the trash.
  
• They replace the spark tube seals but not the tubes, which are just a few dollars.
  
• They replace the tensioner dust boot. What is a tensioner dust boot?
  
• They say that they use an oil pan gasket made by "German Reinz". There is not an oil pan gasket on this engine. The sealing agent is RTV, or Loctite 5900.
  
• They install zinc plated lock nuts (not sure where). Zinc is prone to rust. Why not use automotive grade stainless or hardened metals?
  
• There is a large list of parts including single use micro encapsulated hardware, orings, gaskets, seals, etc that are not included in their auction description that I would recommend replacing while you are in there items because they are inexpensive, and in my opionion using used parts in a new rebuild is not a wise idea.
  

[lendy]

Thanks all for the incredible feedback.

I'm finding what I need is a reliable indie shop in South New Jersey. Anyone have a suggestion?

[phillipj]

This is not an attempt to derail their business model, but it is important that one consider these points should anyone decide to have them disassemble an engine and then reassemble it again. Call this a public service announcement and you are free to make your own informed descision. This post is as objective and factual as it can be. Just reading what they have to sell and asking myself, would I do that to my own engine? I am a Porsche owner, but not a business owner, nor employed in the trade.

Some of the fine print quoted from their auction:

"Price listed do not cover any shipping, installations, removals, taxes, towing, storage, oils, lubes and gas. Prices maybe substantially higher. Pictures and Videos are for illustration only. Price listed do not cover any parts that are broken, burnt, bent, worn or incorrect."

"All Porsche motors sold come with full warranty on all parts and labor sold!"

"Returns: 7 day money back, buyer pays return shipping"

"all parts listed above are on rebuilding customer’s motor & parts keeping original case serial numbers"

The auction claims to sell the buyer about $900 worth (retail price before discount) of parts and re-uses everything else already in your engine. I'm not saying that it wouldn't freshen up a few components and do some good with all the cleaning and inspection they claim to do and with those new parts. And it is a good thing if there is actual two-way customer interaction during the rebuild and if they notice a problem and a part is replaced. I'm on the fence with that respect since I don't have personal experience with their process, but if you are OK with that type of business model instead of being up front and straightforward and honest up front about what needs to be done then that is your choice.

Regarding the intermix repair. I'm not saying they couldn't repair one, becaue I'm sure they could have the heads repaired, but that is not listed in this auction description. In short, the chances of an ebay motormeister rebuild repairing an intermix issue due to cracked head or cylinder (or even oil cooler or AOS) are just about 0%. There is a 0.000000000001% chance it would get fixed, because one of the genuine parts they do actually replace are the head gaskets - which pretty much never fail on this engine.

There are many bullet points listed in their auction that I would ask for more qualification on, you can be the judge depending on their answers. I am sure they are fully capable of performing these services as detailed correctly below, however since they are not included in the auction description prepared to pay substantially more than their $6,000 price tag. And to their credit, they do offer this warning in their auction as I quoted above that it could cost considerably more.

• They "prep" the cylinder walls. The only possible preparation for used, worn, and oval Lokasil cylinders are 1.) overbore with weight matched piston (which apparently has low success probability), 2.) cast iron sleeves (which is not recommended due to heat), 3.) Nikasil sleeves, or 4) crankcase replacement. I would ask motormeister exactly what they do to prep the cylinders. Do they use any abrasives or polishing agents on the Lokasil? How do they plan to make up the difference in clearance once the material is gone if they are re-using your old stock pistons and new piston rings?
  
• They test and clean the piston jets. But these are $6.50 items, why not just replace them?
  
• They list "German" for crankshaft. Well, yes it is German, but how does that apply to the work they are doing on it?
  
• They say the connecting rods will "rebuilt in spec". If a rod needs to be rebuilt, it should be replaced. Or how do they plan to rebuild it?
  
• They reuse your existing pistons and only provide you with "1 piston rings". So are they reusing 5 of your existing rings, or is this a typo and they mean 6 ring sets? (which increases the parts cost by $600 up to $1500 MSRP if they replace all six ring sets) The chances of getting a good ring seal and compression by using your old pistons and new rings without any "documented to work" cylinder preparation (as I list above) are slim to none.
  
• The valve job does not appear to include pressure or vacuum testing, which are critical - especially in the case of intermix repair. Even without the repair, how will they know if there are not any cracks or if they've achieved good valve seat seal once they are done with the cuts?
  
• In the valve job, they make no mention of inspecting the valves or valve guides for tolerances, and replacing them should they be too worn. This is perhaps one of the most critical parts of the valve job.
  
• They clean and inspect the "valve holder cage". I think they mean lifter carrier.
  
• They flush out the oil cooler. Since the water and oil pumps do a pretty good job of flushing it out continuously as you run the engine, what would be more useful is to pressure test it to see if it is the source of intermix.
  
• There is a lot of resurfacing of mating surfaces, and while this is a good idea for certain things such as heads and crank case, it is questionable practice in my opinion for things like oil pump housing, thermostat housing, oil pan, etc.
  
• They say they will hand inspect, dissaseemble, reassemble and reseal your 2 oil pumps. The engine has 3 oil pumps, not 2. The two scavange pumps are not meant to be dissasembled, and on a high milage engine, they should just be replaced at about $150 each. On the third main oil pump, the piston, spring, and hex driver should be replaced.
  
• They polish the IMS tube shaft journals. Well last I checked the IMS tube rides on a film of oil on the oil pump console at one end and the controversial sealed ims bearing at the other end. The tube has sprockets for the drive chains and crank, but where are the journals they speak of?
  
• Assuming a high milaege engine, several lifters are likely colllapsed at which point the guidance is to replace them ALL.
  
• They resurface the camshaft bearings, yet do they also build up and regrind the cam shaft so it mates properly?
  
• They inspect the cam covers for chain damage. If any of the chains came into contact with the camshaft cover during normal operation, the engine would be toast.
  
• They inspect and clean the 3 paddle/chain tensioners yet on a high milage engine should be replaced especially if there is scoring, at about $75 each.
  
• They make no mention of inspecting for mushrooming or replacing the variocam actuators.
  
• There is no mention of replacing the main drive chains or IMS to crank chain on a 5 chain engine, nor the chain paddles.
  
• There is no mention of inspecting the coil packs or replacing spark plugs
  
• There is no mention of replacing the air oil seperator, another $100 item prone to failure and while you are in there.
  
• No mention of inspecting or replacing worn hoses or tubes
  
• No mention of inspecting or overhauling the secondary air injection system.
  
• They don't replace the oil filler tube, which is very inexpnsive and prone to leaks.
  
• There are countless orings and gaskets such as the intake manifold, intake riser, throttle body, brake booster to intake, cam position sensor orings, AOS tube orings, AOS breather, etc. etc. etc. they do not mention will be replaced.
  
• They make no mention of replacing the main or head bolts, as they are single use items. Once they've been stretched to torque you have to toss them in the trash.
  
• They replace the spark tube seals but not the tubes, which are just a few dollars.
  
• They replace the tensioner dust boot. What is a tensioner dust boot?
  
• They say that they use an oil pan gasket made by "German Reinz". There is not an oil pan gasket on this engine. The sealing agent is RTV, or Loctite 5900.
  
• They install zinc plated lock nuts (not sure where). Zinc is prone to rust. Why not use automotive grade stainless or hardened metals?
  
• There is a large list of parts including single use micro encapsulated hardware, orings, gaskets, seals, etc that are not included in their auction description that I would recommend replacing while you are in there items because they are inexpensive, and in my opionion using used parts in a new rebuild is not a wise idea.
  

Awesome write up. Many Porsche owners with engine failure should thank you for this. :thumbup:

[wyovino]

Just Google Motormeister and you will find pages and pages of angry customers.

Your intermix problem could be a cracked head, which is significantly cheaper to fix than a full rebuild. Do a search here and on Rennlist for threads by Dharn. He's posted some excellent write-ups concerning his experience with that issue. I believe he has a 2000 C2, as do I.

[danl]

This is not an attempt to derail their business model, but it is important that one consider these points should anyone decide to have them disassemble an engine and then reassemble it again. Call this a public service announcement and you are free to make your own informed descision. This post is as objective and factual as it can be. Just reading what they have to sell and asking myself, would I do that to my own engine? I am a Porsche owner, but not a business owner, nor employed in the trade.

Some of the fine print quoted from their auction:

"Price listed do not cover any shipping, installations, removals, taxes, towing, storage, oils, lubes and gas. Prices maybe substantially higher. Pictures and Videos are for illustration only. Price listed do not cover any parts that are broken, burnt, bent, worn or incorrect."

"All Porsche motors sold come with full warranty on all parts and labor sold!"

"Returns: 7 day money back, buyer pays return shipping"

"all parts listed above are on rebuilding customer’s motor & parts keeping original case serial numbers"

The auction claims to sell the buyer about $900 worth (retail price before discount) of parts and re-uses everything else already in your engine. I'm not saying that it wouldn't freshen up a few components and do some good with all the cleaning and inspection they claim to do and with those new parts. And it is a good thing if there is actual two-way customer interaction during the rebuild and if they notice a problem and a part is replaced. I'm on the fence with that respect since I don't have personal experience with their process, but if you are OK with that type of business model instead of being up front and straightforward and honest up front about what needs to be done then that is your choice.

Regarding the intermix repair. I'm not saying they couldn't repair one, becaue I'm sure they could have the heads repaired, but that is not listed in this auction description. In short, the chances of an ebay motormeister rebuild repairing an intermix issue due to cracked head or cylinder (or even oil cooler or AOS) are just about 0%. There is a 0.000000000001% chance it would get fixed, because one of the genuine parts they do actually replace are the head gaskets - which pretty much never fail on this engine.

There are many bullet points listed in their auction that I would ask for more qualification on, you can be the judge depending on their answers. I am sure they are fully capable of performing these services as detailed correctly below, however since they are not included in the auction description prepared to pay substantially more than their $6,000 price tag. And to their credit, they do offer this warning in their auction as I quoted above that it could cost considerably more.

• They "prep" the cylinder walls. The only possible preparation for used, worn, and oval Lokasil cylinders are 1.) overbore with weight matched piston (which apparently has low success probability), 2.) cast iron sleeves (which is not recommended due to heat), 3.) Nikasil sleeves, or 4) crankcase replacement. I would ask motormeister exactly what they do to prep the cylinders. Do they use any abrasives or polishing agents on the Lokasil? How do they plan to make up the difference in clearance once the material is gone if they are re-using your old stock pistons and new piston rings?
  
• They test and clean the piston jets. But these are $6.50 items, why not just replace them?
  
• They list "German" for crankshaft. Well, yes it is German, but how does that apply to the work they are doing on it?
  
• They say the connecting rods will "rebuilt in spec". If a rod needs to be rebuilt, it should be replaced. Or how do they plan to rebuild it?
  
• They reuse your existing pistons and only provide you with "1 piston rings". So are they reusing 5 of your existing rings, or is this a typo and they mean 6 ring sets? (which increases the parts cost by $600 up to $1500 MSRP if they replace all six ring sets) The chances of getting a good ring seal and compression by using your old pistons and new rings without any "documented to work" cylinder preparation (as I list above) are slim to none.
  
• The valve job does not appear to include pressure or vacuum testing, which are critical - especially in the case of intermix repair. Even without the repair, how will they know if there are not any cracks or if they've achieved good valve seat seal once they are done with the cuts?
  
• In the valve job, they make no mention of inspecting the valves or valve guides for tolerances, and replacing them should they be too worn. This is perhaps one of the most critical parts of the valve job.
  
• They clean and inspect the "valve holder cage". I think they mean lifter carrier.
  
• They flush out the oil cooler. Since the water and oil pumps do a pretty good job of flushing it out continuously as you run the engine, what would be more useful is to pressure test it to see if it is the source of intermix.
  
• There is a lot of resurfacing of mating surfaces, and while this is a good idea for certain things such as heads and crank case, it is questionable practice in my opinion for things like oil pump housing, thermostat housing, oil pan, etc.
  
• They say they will hand inspect, dissaseemble, reassemble and reseal your 2 oil pumps. The engine has 3 oil pumps, not 2. The two scavange pumps are not meant to be dissasembled, and on a high milage engine, they should just be replaced at about $150 each. On the third main oil pump, the piston, spring, and hex driver should be replaced.
  
• They polish the IMS tube shaft journals. Well last I checked the IMS tube rides on a film of oil on the oil pump console at one end and the controversial sealed ims bearing at the other end. The tube has sprockets for the drive chains and crank, but where are the journals they speak of?
  
• Assuming a high milaege engine, several lifters are likely colllapsed at which point the guidance is to replace them ALL.
  
• They resurface the camshaft bearings, yet do they also build up and regrind the cam shaft so it mates properly?
  
• They inspect the cam covers for chain damage. If any of the chains came into contact with the camshaft cover during normal operation, the engine would be toast.
  
• They inspect and clean the 3 paddle/chain tensioners yet on a high milage engine should be replaced especially if there is scoring, at about $75 each.
  
• They make no mention of inspecting for mushrooming or replacing the variocam actuators.
  
• There is no mention of replacing the main drive chains or IMS to crank chain on a 5 chain engine, nor the chain paddles.
  
• There is no mention of inspecting the coil packs or replacing spark plugs
  
• There is no mention of replacing the air oil seperator, another $100 item prone to failure and while you are in there.
  
• No mention of inspecting or replacing worn hoses or tubes
  
• No mention of inspecting or overhauling the secondary air injection system.
  
• They don't replace the oil filler tube, which is very inexpnsive and prone to leaks.
  
• There are countless orings and gaskets such as the intake manifold, intake riser, throttle body, brake booster to intake, cam position sensor orings, AOS tube orings, AOS breather, etc. etc. etc. they do not mention will be replaced.
  
• They make no mention of replacing the main or head bolts, as they are single use items. Once they've been stretched to torque you have to toss them in the trash.
  
• They replace the spark tube seals but not the tubes, which are just a few dollars.
  
• They replace the tensioner dust boot. What is a tensioner dust boot?
  
• They say that they use an oil pan gasket made by "German Reinz". There is not an oil pan gasket on this engine. The sealing agent is RTV, or Loctite 5900.
  
• They install zinc plated lock nuts (not sure where). Zinc is prone to rust. Why not use automotive grade stainless or hardened metals?
  
• There is a large list of parts including single use micro encapsulated hardware, orings, gaskets, seals, etc that are not included in their auction description that I would recommend replacing while you are in there items because they are inexpensive, and in my opionion using used parts in a new rebuild is not a wise idea.
  

Awesome write up. Many Porsche owners with engine failure should thank you for this. :thumbup:

Thank you all, I almost brought my car to them. @ Phillipj .. can you recommmend a indie mechanic in So Cal area, had a IMS failure, engine still was running when shut off. Would like to find an honest guy to tell me if the whole thing needs rebuiling or he can save my engine?

[CabC2]

Duane at visionmotorsports... philipj did recommend it to me and he rebuilt my engine, he's honest reliable and reasonable. lake forest area.

[phillipj]

Yes Dani,

Call Duane at Vision Motorsports. They do good work and are honest. Good luck!

[danl]

Thank You Gentleman

[phillipj]

Dani,

Did you speak to Dwain at Vision?

[fpb111]

Thanks all for the incredible feedback.

I'm finding what I need is a reliable indie shop in South New Jersey. Anyone have a suggestion?

Bodymotion is one. They did a friends engine and he was/is happy with the result. http://www.bodymotion.com/

If you can get it to Power Tech in Rockaway they are very good with these engines. http://www.pwr-tech.com/