Secondary Air System- Fail (Durametrics)

[ASpec818]

Using my Durametrics, I'm getting a Fail for the Secondary Air System in the Ready Test. Why is this and what does it mean? I'm looking at the service manual and the requirements for the secondary air system is "Start engine, idle cold for approx 2 min, 10 sec's." I've done this multiple times already.

All the other monitors passed. Is this sufficient to pass smog?

Edited August 6, 2011 by ASpec818

[JFP in PA]

Probably not. What specific codes are you getting, and what is the year and model of your car?

[goldenwarrior1]

I'm not a California resident but from my understanding any DTC Flag set by the ECU is grounds for a failure in Cali. As JFP stated, we need your codes to assist but from what you stated it is part of the Evaporative Emissions system which is a definite failure.

[pk2]

JFP is right (if PA (if that's Pennsylvania) shows the same emission standards as California.. California smog plugs there computers into the OBC(?) port and your codes are likely to show up. Do you have CEL? Whats it running like? Is running it cold 2 mins supposed to make the prob go away?

Good luck. PK

[ASpec818]

Originally, I was getting a P0430 cel for cat deficiency. However, it has stayed off (in the meantime) after clearing it with my durametrics. When using my durametrics, I'm not getting any faults or pending faults...

Edited August 6, 2011 by ASpec818

[JFP in PA]

Try triggering the SAI system and see what the Durametric says..................

Edited August 5, 2011 by JFP in PA

[logray]

In California you can only have 2 monitors in "not ready" in order to pass. So if you have 5 readiness monitors, 3 must be good.

Also you can't have a check engine light on.

If the codes you have do not set the check engine light, and you have enough readiness indicators then it is possible you can pass a smog test.

Some of the stored codes might cause a fail though...

That being said, per the previous suggestions - post the DTC's (trouble codes) you read from Durametric and someone can help you determine what is wrong.

Since it sounds like your SAI system has a problem it is possible you won't be able to get enough of the readiness monitors to go green.

"Start engine, idle cold for approx 2 min, 10 sec's."

This is the method you can use to start the SAI system routine. Starting the car cold will trigger the SAI pump to inject the necessary oxygen into the exhaust until it reaches the appropriate temperature and then it can shut off. There's nothing you have to do for that to work ordinarily, it just happens on every cold start whether you want to or not (on a properly functioning system).

What Durametric is probably telling you is that your SAI system probably has a fault if it keeps asking you to do that test over and over.

I believe Loren posted a screen cap yesterday of those monitors, and there is also a great thread here by Tool Pants about his ongoing saga to pass SMOG.

Edit: I also suggest taking a few short drives if you've recently cleared codes to make sure they don't come back before you take it to get smogged.

I can't remember if you can do this with a Durametric, but at least with a PST2 you can do "short tests" which allow you to run the OBD readiness checks without driving the car - say for example if some of them are not set - which might be useful if you've recently completed repairs or disconnected your battery.

Edited August 5, 2011 by logray

[Dale_K]

Do you hear the fan run on a cold start?

[ASpec818]

In California you can only have 2 monitors in "not ready" in order to pass. So if you have 5 readiness monitors, 3 must be good.Also you can't have a check engine light on.If the codes you have do not set the check engine light, and you have enough readiness indicators then it is possible you can pass a smog test.Some of the stored codes might cause a fail though...That being said, per the previous suggestions - post the DTC's (trouble codes) you read from Durametric and someone can help you determine what is wrong.Since it sounds like your SAI system has a problem it is possible you won't be able to get enough of the readiness monitors to go green."Start engine, idle cold for approx 2 min, 10 sec's."This is the method you can use to start the SAI system routine. Starting the car cold will trigger the SAI pump to inject the necessary oxygen into the exhaust until it reaches the appropriate temperature and then it can shut off. There's nothing you have to do for that to work ordinarily, it just happens on every cold start whether you want to or not (on a properly functioning system). What Durametric is probably telling you is that your SAI system probably has a fault if it keeps asking you to do that test over and over.I believe Loren posted a screen cap yesterday of those monitors, and there is also a great thread here by Tool Pants about his ongoing saga to pass SMOG.Edit: I also suggest taking a few short drives if you've recently cleared codes to make sure they don't come back before you take it to get smogged.I can't remember if you can do this with a Durametric, but at least with a PST2 you can do "short tests" which allow you to run the OBD readiness checks without driving the car - say for example if some of them are not set - which might be useful if you've recently completed repairs or disconnected your battery.

So I have 4/5 readiness monitors good, except for that secondary air system fail. If California requires 3/5, I should be ok then right? My durametrics isn't picking up any CEL codes, immediate or pending. What is the screen cap that Loren posted? Is that from a smog computer or something?

On a cold start, I don't hear any fans coming on.

[JFP in PA]

So I have 4/5 readiness monitors good, except for that secondary air system fail. If California requires 3/5, I should be ok then right? My durametrics isn't picking up any CEL codes, immediate or pending. What is the screen cap that Loren posted? Is that from a smog computer or something?

On a cold start, I don't hear any fans coming on.

If you do not hear a "fan-like" sound ion cold start (which is actually the SAI pump kicking in), that is probably the root of your "not ready" issue. What you might want to do is listen to another car on cold start that is acting normally.

The SAI blows air into the exhaust during cold start to offset the slightly rich start up mixture conditions and keep the car within emissions specs. If yours is not making the fan-like sound, yours is not working properly. Common failure points in the SAI is the electric change over valve and general crud build up in the system.

Edited August 5, 2011 by JFP in PA

[logray]

If you have 4/5 ready and no CEL or pending codes, then YES you should be able to pass California SMOG based on what others have posted here.

I wouldn't try to trick "the SMOG system" though, if you cleared the CEL and haven't driven the car enough, it might trigger on your way to the SMOG shop based on your SAI system readiness (or might be a pending code that their computer will pick up). Then again, it might not - it's sorta your gamble - and some shops offer a free or cheap retest if yours fails.

That being said, you should address the issue regardless of the SMOG check.

The screen cap Loren posted is of a PST2 Porsche computer showing the readiness checks. On the top screen cap that's what it looks like if you have all 5 readiness checks GOOD.

[Dale_K]

You can use the activations menu in the Durametric to (attempt) turning on the secondary air injection fan with the motor off. You should definitely hear it in a quiet area. It's pretty hard to miss in a loud area, lol.

[ASpec818]

You can use the activations menu in the Durametric to (attempt) turning on the secondary air injection fan with the motor off. You should definitely hear it in a quiet area. It's pretty hard to miss in a loud area, lol.

Activated the secondary air pump via the Durametric software and it's functioning. Sounds like a fan alright. However, I don't think I ever noticed that fan/pump come on during startups.

I also tried to activate the Electrical switch-over valve Secondary air pump and all I heard were ticks every couple of seconds in that area. Everything sound normal?

Anything else I can check using the Durametrics?

Edited August 6, 2011 by ASpec818

[Dale_K]

The ticking sound is what I hear whenever I activate any of the solenoid valve systems, so I think that's normal. I don't know why your car doesn't run the fan on a cold start. Mine always does. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[ASpec818]

Actually I do hear the fan if I listen closely on the passenger vent side. I was also able to pass smog today with flying colors. To my surprise , it also didn't fail any visual/functional tests. I'm glad I didn't replace the cat as I initially thought I needed to due to the P0430 CEL.

[logray]

+1 to JFP's comment earlier. My guess is a gummed up check valve or plumbing... you should have seen the state of my system after 12 years and 75k miles.

I'm not an expert on this but after doing a lot of reading I'm not sure there is a negative side to not fixing it other than eventually that system will throw a CEL and you'll have to fix it to pass smog.

[JFP in PA]

Unless I'm mistaken, you cannot sell or trade in a car with an emissions issue in CA unless the vehicle is going to be scrapped, so fixing it may not be an option.............

[logray]

Yep, selling in CA requires passing a SMOG check... (sellers responsibility).