Greetings/IMS failure

[Oscarvan]

UPDATE.......

Well, we've been busy. Got the old outer race out, dremmel dressed the shaft best we could, as it was somewhat banged up, and installed the new bearing with all the appropriate ointments. Put it all back together, put the tranny back in, cleaned up the oil pan and oil pickups (lots of shrapnel) a new filter and oil..... and fired it up.

Initially it ran like crap, especially at low RPM. Lots of missing. My thought.....it's toast. Then my friend said "what the heck" and throttled it up to 4000 rpm, and it smoothed out. Wait, if it's toast and won't run at 1500 rpm, it definitely shouldn't run at 4000 rpm. We held it at 2500 for a few minutes and it soothed out. Now, mind you, this thing has been sitting in the garage for two years without running as he tried to figure out a plan. Old gas doesn't help, neither do the metal flakes that may have been in the top end.

It smoothed out enough were we thought....."Road Test". To make it short, it ran like a bat outa hell....smooth and fast..... He said it ran just like before... (and remember, this guy is a formula V driver and knows what a good running car feels like.) By the time we got back it was idling smoothly. Unfortunately the throwout bearing is making noises.....a minor detail.

I drained the oil and pulled the filter, and cut off the ends so I could unfold it. Still a lot of shrapnel. I will pull the pan and check for debris in there. Will refill oil, and install new filter.....drive a few hours, and repeat, until there is no more debris. I suggested he then take it to a specialist for a thorough once over.

I know, for a shop and a customer this would not be an acceptable result. But, my friend now has a running car for under $1000, not a lot in the Porsche world, and a lot less than the $18000 he was quoted to fix the problem. How ling will it run? Who knows......1000, 5, 50? But for him, any miles he gets out of it are better than the option of trashing it that he thought was the only one before.

I'll let you all know.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Oscarvan

[j_beede]

Well, well. Amazing. I can't imagine what the end of the shaft must look like. Next step... order an IMS Guardian :)

[function12]

Great save!! I am glad it worked out.

[logray]

Great news, also a good idea to put in the magnetic drain plug from LN engineering to help with that shrapnel.

http://www.lnengineering.com/drainplug.html

[Oscarvan]

Epilogue.......

The answer is.....8.

8 Miles that is.

Today it seized. It will not turn over. Not with the starter, and not flat towing it at 10mph and popping the clutch in second. Laid two stripes of rubber.

All I can think is that the shrapnel got into a bearing journal and it welded up.

My bud will have to rethink his plan.

It was fun while it lasted, I did learn a lot. It probably died two years ago when the IMS bearing shredded.

OK, bring on the "Told you so's"

I can take it.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Oscarvan

[logray]

:( :oops:

Are you going to tear it down or is it a big bucket of bolts at this point?

[Oscarvan]

Well, it's a 2000 with 22000 miles.... kept inside. For all intents and purposes it's a new car (except for the motor of course, that only had 15000 miles on it as it blew at 7000 and was replaced under warrantee...). It's his call, but it it were me and I had his wallet I would have someone replace the engine, and be driving around a new 2000.

I think he's worried about doing that and something else blowing up on this car. What he really want's is a good ol' 923....if he can find a specialist that will take this thing in trade he would probably do that.

[logray]

Doesn't sound good.

Used engine $7k or more.

Rebuilt engine $10k.

New engine $15-20k.

Car value with bad engine, who knows - probably not even $10k.

Car value with good engine, perhaps $20-$25k.

It's a tough situation! I'm not sure what I would do.

[Oscarvan]

Doesn't sound good.

Used engine $7k or more.

Rebuilt engine $10k.

New engine $15-20k.

Car value with bad engine, who knows - probably not even $10k.

Car value with good engine, perhaps $20-$25k.

It's a tough situation! I'm not sure what I would do.

Well, that's exactly where he is now, and where he was before this episode started. He was willing to throw a grand at it to see if he could get his car back....it almost worked, but not really. So the dilemma returns....

Again, if it was mine and I had the money I would put a rebuilt or new engine in it to enjoy the basically new car......but I can understand how after a complete engine replacement at 7K and an IMS bearing failure at 22 K he has become leary of this model....

Edited July 22, 2011 by Oscarvan

[JFP in PA]

He already owns the solution to one of the major issues, the LN upgrade bearing. You can pull it from this engine and install it in another one without any issues, making the replacement basically bullet proof. If you did this swap, you would not be the first, several owners have moved the LN bearing from one engine to another without issue; in fact, some LN bearings are on their third "home".

If it were mine, and as nice as you say it is, I would start looking for a good replacement engine.................

[j_beede]

Pushing the car to 10 MPH then dumping the clutch after the engine seized? Sounds pretty barbaric. Were you hoping that the engine would start and your friend would drive away happily ever after? Disappointing to hear of this given the effort that was put in. I had been "on your side" up until then.

[Oscarvan]

Yes it is barbaric.....but it was to us the final piece of evidence that the motor was in fact seized and that it was not an electrical issue.....nothing (more) to lose.

However, this morning it turned over although it didn't start. At this point I am even further out of my league than I have already been so far.

Tuesday it's being dolly'd to someone who communes with these motors on a regular basis.

[logray]

Best of luck!!! Hopefully it is not seized or totally un-salvageable.

[PILFILR]

Have Flat6 build a big bore upgrade... It might make him feel better about spending the money if he gets more horsepower with the new engine. I have run the same scenario over in my mind if my 996 blew-up... Take a look at Flat6's website... I would think you get more money for reselling a running car if he is done with the 996?

Edited July 24, 2011 by PILFILR

[spender]

Any updates on this? How did it go?

[txhokie4life]

Its quite possible when the first bearing went that the other end of the IMS was wearing in its housing. (wobbling around)

I "saved" an engine with a toasted IMS bearing, but we had to replace the entire IMS tube.

On yours you say 8 miles later it seized up (probably IMS tube.

Then something gave in the timing. Your 10mph might have broken or bent the valves

out of the way -- but now the timing is so far off, or the compression lost -- that it won't fire up or won't allow itself

to fire up.

I'd find a used 3.4 (just not a 99), toss in that IMS retrofit and drive it or sell it. Probably 7-8K depending on the engine you find

and the labor.

As is the car is probably worth 6-8K. Low 20's fixed.

Mike

Edited August 9, 2011 by txhokie4life

[j_beede]

$6,000-8,000 for a 996 with a blown motor sounds optimistic--unless it has a remarkable set of wheels, fresh tires and full fatory aero kit.