Crank but no start

[rplus12]

Just wanted to add my recent experience to the no start database.

The car: 2000 996 C2 w/83k miles which I have owned since 06/65k miles. Not my daily driver.

A couple of weeks ago, I went to start the car and it cranked fine but didn't start the first try. It started the second go and ran fine the rest of the day. Two weeks later, I went to start the car and again, it cranked but wouldn't start. Second try, same...third, same and so on. I ran the codes with a generic OBDII scanner and had a couple of O2 temp codes that show up occasionally but nothing to indicate a starting problem. Here are some of the things I did to troubleshoot:

1. I checked the fuel pump relay and it tested good and the car wouldn't start with the fuel pump connections jumped.

2. Reseated the fuel pump electrical connection, still no luck.

3. Tried to find a fuel pressure tester but the local stores didn't have the right connector.

4. Broke down and bought the Durametric tool (thought about getting it for a long time but now I had a good excuse). I had read so many posts about crank position sensor problems, etc and I wanted to make sure I could see what is going on.

5. Ran the Durametric and had some codes thrown from when I was troubleshooting, reset, and finally got an immobilizer code with a 58 alarm code. I can't remember the exact wording but it was something to the effect of 'tank pump failed to engage even though the relay was energized'.

6. Bought new fuel pump, seal, and ring and installed.

7. Started first try.

Some take-aways from this for me are:

1. The securing ring over the top of the fuel pump interface on the top of the tank is a pain to get off. I am glad I ordered a new one since I destroyed the old one in the process of taking it off.

2. I don't know if my new pump is especially quiet or not but I could not hear it when the key was put to the ON position or after the car started. Made me nervous the first time we went to start the car.

3. The Durametric software is impressive to say the least. 100x more useful than just some OBDII software.

I have read posts of people putting in new pumps and having them fail fairly soon so I will keep my fingers crossed. Hopefully, I won't have to update this!

[logray]

Nice work, :welcome: and great thread!!! I'll keep this one in my handy list. :thankyou:

[rplus12]

Well, it looks like I was somewhat prophetic about the fuel pump. The car ran the day I changed the fuel pump as well as the next day but would not start (cranked fine) after sitting for 4 days. Is it possible that there is something with the car that is killing the fuel pumps? I had some time to do the following today:

1. Changed fuel filter. I was going to do this last week before replacing the fuel pump but gave up on it. The car lives in a 1 car garage and room was limited which made getting under the car difficult and I wanted to get the fuel pump in. This time I pushed it out on the driveway which made it a little bit easier to get it up on stands. I put up a portable canopy and a fan under the car so it actually wasn't too bad even though it is in the mid/hi 90s by 0900 here in Tucson. It is just a good thing my arms aren't any shorter or I don't think I would have been able to reach the filter through the space over the coolant lines.

2. I got a current tester that you can plug into the fuse location to check circuits. I activated the fuel pump using the durametric software and it showed around 24 amps. This definitely doesn't look right.

3. Pulled the fuel pump out to see if it was blocked but there wasn't anything on the screen and I could blow air through the lines. I checked the resistance across the terminals to the motor and showed 0.002 Ohms and the continuity buzzer went off. So, that would correlate with the large amp draw.

4. I also bought the larger fuel pressure test kit at Harbor Freight. However, none of the fittings seemed to match up. I had read that the connector on the rail is M14x1.5 which the kit has a 14mmx1.5 female fitting but the one on the rail seems to be more like 10mmx1.25 or 1.5. I will have to research that one some more.

5. I bought some HEET fuel anti-freeze and threw a few ounces in the tank. Not that it gets cold here in Tucson but I think I read a post from Loren that it works well for water contamination. I probably should have taken a good look at the gas out of the filter to confirm if that is an issue but I figured I would give it a go for good measure.

I guess my next step is to find a fuel pressure tester and see if Pelican will replace the pump.

Standby for more...

[logray]

This is crazy because I'm having deja vu about this topic. There are about 3 different threads here and elsewhere I was reading in the past few days related to the same problem.

If I remember one of the cases dealt with loss of fuel pressure after sitting for a period of sitting and it sounded similar to your cars symptoms. I don't remember if there was a resolution to their problems though.

Anyways, that might not be what you are dealing with if it cranks but no start at all. The airbag and immobilizer modules can disable fuel. Another possibility might be crankshaft position sensor, among others. There are plenty of others. DME, etc. etc. etc.

Although I would have to go back to the fuel delivery system since you seemed to have temporary success with replacing the fuel pump. The above suggestions might just be red herrings.

Do you have a Durametric to read any stored DTCs (trouble codes) if any?

[rplus12]

Here is another update...

Pelican sent me another fuel pump which I installed the other day. I activated the pump via the Durametric software and could hear the pump come on and saw ~7A for the current draw which all seemed to make sense to me. So, I went ahead and it started right up (just like last time).

I really wanted to check the fuel pressure so I spent most of the day trying to acquire a guage that would work. I took the cap to my local ACE hardware and found that the only bolt that would fit was a 7/16-20. None of the metric would work. I bought a bolt so I would have something I can check connections with without trying to hook it up to the car. I went back to my HF fuel pressure tester that I hadn't taken back yet and sure enough, the GM schrader connection screwed right on. So, I took that out to the car and attempted to connect it. The problem was that the valve/seal on the connector were too shallow and I couldn't get it far enough on the test port to catch the threads. So, I gave up on that and took it back to HF. In the end, I had the solution in my garage already in the form of the HF AC service kit (item# 92649). The low pressure side has the correct pressure range and the fitting was a lot deeper and caught the threads and made a good seal. I also connected the yellow service line to the gauge assembly and put the other end in a gas container. It worked like a champ (pressures were to spec) and you just turn the service knob and the pressure is released through the yellow service line into the gas can. Obviously, I am not going to be using this for AC service but it will only cost me $40ish dollars to replace. I attached some pics...

Another thing I found out in this is that the fuel pump doesn't necessary activate when you turn the key to the ON position. The relay clicks but it appears if there is sufficient full pressure, the pump doesn't actually come on. After sitting overnight, I put the current tester in and there was a very brief current applied when I moved to the ON position and then 0. When I started, the current flowed. Perhaps I should have known this already but I was under the assumption that when you turn the key to the ON position, the fuel pump activates. This would explain why I didn't hear a pump when I installed the other pump and had my wife turn the key to the ON position.

It has been running well the last couple of days so I am hoping this one will stick.