Boxster (98) roof doesn't open

[matspart3]

Hi all

I've managed to confuse the hell out of myself reading various threads on here, so I started a new one!

My 1998 Boxster roof won't open and today is the first (and probably last - knowing the UK weather - blue sky day)

When I unlatch the top with the handbrake on, the windows drop a few inches. When I press the dashboard button the lights dim, the motor clicks briefly and I can feel the cables tensing in their sheaths under the clamshell. That, however, is as far as it goes; there is no further movement. Keeping the button depressed makes the motor click at intermittent intervals and both windows drop fully. The idiot light stays on permanently.

From reading previous threads, I guess the V-levers have over rotated but what is my next step? Thanks in anticipation

Edited to say that whilst feeling around the sheaths, I found the part shown

Edited March 23, 2011 by matspart3

[1schoir]

Hi all

I've managed to confuse the hell out of myself reading various threads on here, so I started a new one!

My 1998 Boxster roof won't open and today is the first (and probably last - knowing the UK weather - blue sky day)

When I unlatch the top with the handbrake on, the windows drop a few inches. When I press the dashboard button the lights dim, the motor clicks briefly and I can feel the cables tensing in their sheaths under the clamshell. That, however, is as far as it goes; there is no further movement. Keeping the button depressed makes the motor click at intermittent intervals and both windows drop fully. The idiot light stays on permanently.

From reading previous threads, I guess the V-levers have over rotated but what is my next step? Thanks in anticipation

Edited to say that whilst feeling around the sheaths, I found the part shown

Mat:

The little plastic piece that you found fits in between the bearing bracket and the hinge lever which is connected to the body-colored support arm of the clamshell. That piece is not the cause of your malfunctioning top. Here is a photo showing where it is located:

From your description, and because you have the "A Version" transmissions on your '98, it does indeed sound like your V-levers have over-rotated and thus cannot go in the other direction.

Your next step is to disconnect the two cables at each side of the electric motor and spin the V-levers by using a cordless drill. By doing so, you will "un-pretzel" the position that the V-levers have gotten into by virtue of the over-rotation.

Here are instructions that I had written up some time ago:

The easiest way I have found to access the 'works' if the top is stuck in the closed position is to partially and gradually open the top by using a cordless drill. Since you described the power drain and the loud cracking sound, your drive cables are probably intact and thus you can use this method after unlatching the top latch.First, reach under or through one of the roll bar hoops so that you can grab the thin metal bar that runs from left to right and that is attached to the rearmost edge of the black vinyl apron under the rear bow of the convertible top frame. That long bar (flat metal bar with a 90 degree bend, about 2 1/2 feet long) is attached to the rear firewall in the convertible top well by means of two small plastic brackets or receptacles, one on each side, about 1 foot to each side of center, 8 to 10 inches from the level of the clamshell when it is in the closed position. Reach for one side at a time and twist it off the brackets by turning it down and rotating it towards you. That will free the vinyl apron from the firewall and give you access to the sides of the electric motor.

The electric motor is located exactly in the center of that rear firewall and, in a '97 also has a small lever mounted on the top of it. You will see the black vinyl sheath of each of the two drive cables going into the sides of the electric motor. There is a brass colored upside down U-shaped clip preventing each cable from being pulled out of the side of the electric motor. The U-shaped clip has a little tiny shelf at its top surface and that is what you should push upwards on to remove the clip. Once you have pushed the clip up and off, grab the cable where it goes into the side of the electric motor and pull it in an outboard direction. Do that on each side.

Once you have pulled the vinyl sheath off, you will see the inner steel (speedometer-type) cable sticking out by about 3/4 of an inch.

Put one of the inner cables into the drill chuck and set the power drill on a LOW TORQUE setting. Now operate the drill while observing the direction of rotation of the V-lever on that side. The V-lever is located just behind the base of the B-pillar, below the level of the top surface of the rear-quarter panel. If you are spinning the drill in the wrong direction, you will hear that loud cracking noise again as the black "hydraulic" pushrod pulls the half-moon gear past its last (50th) tooth and the top will NOT start to open. In that case, spin the drill in the opposite direction and you will see the top start to open slowly.

Just spin that side for a few seconds, then disconnect the drill from that side and insert the other drive cable into the chuck. Repeat the same procedure as above until the other side of the front edge of the top has reached the same spot at the side you did first. Then go a little further with that side.

Now just repeat, alternating each side and that will allow you to open the top until you get the clamshell in the 45 degree position. That will give you clear access to the electric motor so that you can re-insert the drive cables and then install the U-shaped clips to lock them in.

That should do it. Keep us posted.

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Thanks Maurice

Everything was going fine! I followed your (excellent) instructions to the letter, reconnected the cables with the clamshell in the 45 degree position then moved to the dashboard switch.

The roof began to retract normally then, about 2 feet into the process, there was a loud crack from the passenger side and the hood fell forward. The clamshell was still up and, on the passenger side, I could see that the red plastic cup had broken in half. The V-levers are also in very different positions, as shown in the pictures.

I've closed the clamshell by using the drill and cable method but, after I've found a new cap, what's next?!?

[1schoir]

Thanks Maurice

Everything was going fine! I followed your (excellent) instructions to the letter, reconnected the cables with the clamshell in the 45 degree position then moved to the dashboard switch.

The roof began to retract normally then, about 2 feet into the process, there was a loud crack from the passenger side and the hood fell forward. The clamshell was still up and, on the passenger side, I could see that the red plastic cup had broken in half. The V-levers are also in very different positions, as shown in the pictures.

I've closed the clamshell by using the drill and cable method but, after I've found a new cap, what's next?!?

Mat:

Either the two sides of the top were not synchronized (thereby putting more pressure on one side) or the plastic ball cups are brittle from age. Since your plastic ball cups are red in color, they are the originals that came with the car. The red ones were replaced with white ones that are more flexible and less prone to breaking from age, so you should replace the other, still intact, red ball cup and keep it as a spare.

Once you replace the ball cups, you must synchronize the top so that both sides operate simultaneously. Take a look at the instructions at the bottom of page 38, and the photo at page 39 of the Part III PDF file on Mike Focke's website, here: http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97 to get a starting point for synchronizing the transmissions.

Once you have the V-levers rotated to the correct position and you have re-connected the plastic ball cups onto their respective steel balls, carefully observe the operation of the top and of the clamshell until you are sure that the transmissions are synched. A good way to double check is to eyeball (or measure) the clamshell while standing behind the car. When it gets to about 1 or 2 inches away from completely closed, it is easy to judge whether the clamshell is level (which means that the V-levers are at the same degree of rotation and the transmissions are synchronized).

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Maurice

Thanks! I see from the other threads that you may have a contact to supply the ball cups. Would you be able to send me the details please?

Thanks

Darren (matspart3)

[1schoir]

Maurice

Thanks! I see from the other threads that you may have a contact to supply the ball cups. Would you be able to send me the details please?

Thanks

Darren (matspart3)

Darren:

PM Sent.

Also, remember to NOT operate the top while the front pushrod(s) is/are dangling and not attached to the steel balls, as they can dig into the foam drain trays and rip or tear a hole in them. Considering that you get lots of rain over there, it wouldn't be long until the water would find its way into the cabin and promptly fry the central alarm computer under the left seat.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited March 25, 2011 by 1schoir

[matspart3]

Ok...progress! Ball caps arrived from Belgium within 3 days - thanks Martijn! Everything opened up, loosely synchronised and ball caps replaced, carefully marking up the push rod lengths,lubricated everything. Right push rod refitted - although I found it really tricky to get the cups back onto the ball! Is there an easy way? I went to refit the left push rod and dropped the 10mm bolt and fat washer - you've guessed it, down the drain hole in the tray! Aaaaagggghh! It's getting dark and cold now, so I've curtailed my repairs until the morning. Do I have any chance of recovering the boltt and washer? Where will it end up?

[1schoir]

Ok...progress! Ball caps arrived from Belgium within 3 days - thanks Martijn! Everything opened up, loosely synchronised and ball caps replaced, carefully marking up the push rod lengths,lubricated everything. Right push rod refitted - although I found it really tricky to get the cups back onto the ball! Is there an easy way? I went to refit the left push rod and dropped the 10mm bolt and fat washer - you've guessed it, down the drain hole in the tray! Aaaaagggghh! It's getting dark and cold now, so I've curtailed my repairs until the morning. Do I have any chance of recovering the boltt and washer? Where will it end up?

Darren:

Sorry...I forgot to tell you about the magnetic quality that the drain hole acquires whenever you are working near it!

You can absolutely recover the bolt and fat washer, but it depends on how far you are willing to go. If you remove the foam drain tray, you will expose the little plastic cup that has a hose pressed onto its underside, but you may not have to go to that extreme. You can also pull the outboard side of the foam drain tray out from under the lip of the sheetmetal that holds it in place and see if you can reach under the drain tray with a magnet leading the way.

If you haven't moved the car, take a look around the inside and the front of the rear tire on the passenger side. There's a remote possibility that the bolt and/or washer "drained" through the hose. If you don't find them on the ground, take a length of wire hanger and attach a powerful magnet to the end of the hanger wire that is in your hand and fish the other end down into the hole. Make sure that whatever you fish down there does not have a sharp end or you will run the risk of tearing the foam drain tray or the plastic cup under it. BE CAREFUL NOT TO TEAR ANYTHING or you may end up with water under the front seat.

You also should make sure that any water that drains into the foam drain tray actually empties completely out of the bottom of the drain pipe (and does not back up or end up in the cabin) in case one of those two parts is blocking the drain.

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Thanks Maurice!

They made an unusual noise as they disappeared out of site as though they were draining through something! I shall fish around tomorrow!

[matspart3]

Frustrating day...the bolt and fat washer had 'drained' through and were under the car. I reconnected everything, synchronised the V-levers (or so I thought!) and hit the switch. The hood retracted and closed OK a couple of times but when I bought it fully forward, the gears overran again and I'm right back to square one! The clamshell is very slightly raised on the passenger side till, so I assume I wasn't fully synchronised. The idiot light has stayed on too. The rubber bushes on the front push rods are badly perished, so I'm going to order some new ones to see if that helps. Not sure whether it's significant, or not, but there does appear to be a couple of millimetres play on the left hand V-lever. Any ideas as to why I'm still over rotating? With the push rods disconnected, everything is very smooth.

Anyone know the part numbers for the bushes?

Edited April 2, 2011 by matspart3

[1schoir]

Frustrating day...the bolt and fat washer had 'drained' through and were under the car. I reconnected everything, synchronised the V-levers (or so I thought!) and hit the switch. The hood retracted and closed OK a couple of times but when I bought it fully forward, the gears overran again and I'm right back to square one! The clamshell is very slightly raised on the passenger side till, so I assume I wasn't fully synchronised. The idiot light has stayed on too. The rubber bushes on the front push rods are badly perished, so I'm going to order some new ones to see if that helps. Not sure whether it's significant, or not, but there does appear to be a couple of millimetres play on the left hand V-lever. Any ideas as to why I'm still over rotating? With the push rods disconnected, everything is very smooth.

Anyone know the part numbers for the bushes?

Darren:

The part number for the rubber bushes where the front pushrods connect to one arm of the V-lever are 986.561.881.00. The new rubber bushes will make the operation a little quieter, but it won't have any effect on the timing.

The power to the electric motor is cut off after it receives signals from two microswitches: The B-pillar microswitch (which is depressed/released by a part of the B-pillar frame itself) and the black lever microswitch (which is located on top of the electric motor and is depressed by the clamshell). After both of those are tripped, there is an "after-running time" of a little less than one second, after which power is cut to the motor and the idiot is shut off.

It's possible that since the clamshell did not close evenly (because the transmissions were not synchronized properly) it did not depress the black lever microswitch soon enough to stop the V-levers from rotating and thus you got the over-rotation again.

There is also a simple way of tripping the black lever microswitch a split second earlier and thus "fooling" the system to achieve your desired result. You can add a small 1/4 inch thick foam spacer by sticking it on the underside of the clamshell at the spot where it contacts the clamshell, and successively add one or two more pieces until you get the desired result. That will set off the "after-running time" a split second sooner and may be enough to fix the over-rotation.

Start by synchronizing the transmissions by operation the clamshell up and down a few times (with the electrical switch) while you measure the distance between the lower lip of the

rear of the clamshell and the top of the forward edge of the trunklid. Once it's one or two or three inches away from completely closed you can get pretty accurate measurements that should match a spot on the left side of the rear of the clamshell with an equivalent spot on the right side.

As to the "play" on that one V-lever, it may be wear on one of the teeth of the half-moon gear of that transmission, and that little play or slop may affect the timing slightly.

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Oh dear, this isn't getting any easier! I thought I'd re-synched the V-levers by measuring the clamshell above the boot lid and was about to work on the shut off problem. I brought the hood forward on the dashboard switch and the left hand side (UK passenger's side)seemed to be lagging behind the right. I tried this a few times, re-synching as accurately as I could, but each time the left side was a problem, occasionally popping the clam shell ball joint from it's runner. Unfortunately, as I tried to push back with the dash switch, the front left push rod shattered my (new) ball cap again. Now the clamshell won't sit evenly with the rear push rods disconnected and needed some gentle 'encouragement' on the right side to sit in the closed postition - I hope I haven't twisted it, or the brackets.

There is definitely some play on the left hand V-lever mount - I'm thinking now that the gear is partly stripped or worn? Gently pulling the semi-circular plastic shroud from below the centre nut allows around 3-5mm of play on the left, but the right side is completely solid. With all push rods disconnected, the hood moves freely and I don't suspect that to be the root cause of the problem.

[1schoir]

Oh dear, this isn't getting any easier! I thought I'd re-synched the V-levers by measuring the clamshell above the boot lid and was about to work on the shut off problem. I brought the hood forward on the dashboard switch and the left hand side (UK passenger's side)seemed to be lagging behind the right. I tried this a few times, re-synching as accurately as I could, but each time the left side was a problem, occasionally popping the clam shell ball joint from it's runner. Unfortunately, as I tried to push back with the dash switch, the front left push rod shattered my (new) ball cap again. Now the clamshell won't sit evenly with the rear push rods disconnected and needed some gentle 'encouragement' on the right side to sit in the closed postition - I hope I haven't twisted it, or the brackets.

There is definitely some play on the left hand V-lever mount - I'm thinking now that the gear is partly stripped or worn? Gently pulling the semi-circular plastic shroud from below the centre nut allows around 3-5mm of play on the left, but the right side is completely solid. With all push rods disconnected, the hood moves freely and I don't suspect that to be the root cause of the problem.

Definitely sounds like there is a problem with the left side transmission. You can remove the 19mm bolt that holds the V-lever onto the transmission and remove the three nuts that hold the transmission onto the studs that are mounted on the inner quarter panel. Then you can open up the transmission to determine what is causing the excessive play. Make sure that you note and mark the position of the female keyway and its relation with the V-lever because it can be mounted two ways: the correct way and 180 degrees off.

Here is what it looks like when you have taken it apart:

Did you "tweak" the clamshell? If you did, and it's not severe, you can pull off the clamshell and, with the help of a friend, you can bend it back into place. There is a thread here somewhere by "Tool Pants" that shows you how to do that.

The body-colored brackets don't bend easily. They are either okay or they crack.

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Ok....making progress again! Removed the 19mm bolt and discovered that all 3 nuts securing the transmission to the sidewall were loose (i.e. removable by hand) allowing the transmission to 'float' during operation, even to the point of snagging on the clamshell guide rail. This, I suspect, is causing the lag on the left hand side, as the gear itself was intact, not worn and very well greased. Now to refit, retighten and replace the ball cup...

[1schoir]

Ok....making progress again! Removed the 19mm bolt and discovered that all 3 nuts securing the transmission to the sidewall were loose (i.e. removable by hand) allowing the transmission to 'float' during operation, even to the point of snagging on the clamshell guide rail. This, I suspect, is causing the lag on the left hand side, as the gear itself was intact, not worn and very well greased. Now to refit, retighten and replace the ball cup...

You should probably also check the passenger side transmission's studs and nuts for tightness, to prevent something like that in the future.

Regards, Maurice.

[matspart3]

Aaaarrrrrgghhh! More haste, less speed...Right side snagged and broke the ball cup.