Starting Problem

[Skip]

So, after having removed the engine, replaced gaskets etc on the valves, timing chain housing, breather cover and a couple of other minor things, I've reinstalled the engine, and gone through the full check list to ensure I didn't miss anything. Was reasonably straight forward, or so I thought.

When I try to turn the car over to give it a whirl for the first time, it doesn't turn over, just a loud hum from the engine compartment (I assume it's from the starter solenoid, but not sure yet (on my own). The starter is rebuilt (Oct 10), so don't believe I have an issue there, and I thought I reconnected the wires as they were before. the thick black and red wires to the one bolt (believe it's no: 30) and the yellow thinner wire to the top spade connector which I believe is no 50. I've checked my Bentley manual, and it seems right. I've also rechecked all my electrical connectors and ground points and all seems good - even recleaned the ground wires and points. All the fuel lines are connected and the fuel pump does make it's appropriate noise as well.

From my understanding, regardless of any other minor changes of gaskets etc, the starter should still engage and turn the engine, but don't even here what I believe should be a click of the solenoid throwing the gear forward to the flywheel.

Any thoughts, was so looking forward to turning that key...

Thanks

Skip

[Skip]

So a bit of an update. I removed the starter and tested it's functionality off the battery hooking the positive terminal to the main bolt and the negative to the case of the starter, finally, connected another positive wire and touched the solenoid spade connector. The starter gear ejected and spun as I believe it's supposed top. I further cleaned off the wire connectors and grounds (main ground strap at the right of the transmission).

Got someone to turn the pulley to see if the fly wheel spun, which it did. Reinstalled the starter and then got a friend to turn the key and the starter clicked and began to hum (I assume that it was spinning as I couldn't see it. The pulley doesn't spin, therefore I assume the fly wheel is not being engaged somehow. Not sure what else could be the issue while installed in the car (relay or electrical issue that actually doesn't allow it to engage perhaps? Seems like a straight forward process to me.

This system worked before, so am at a loss. Any help would be appreciated.

Skip

[JFP in PA]

As much as I hate to say this, pull the starter back out again, and this time clean the Bendix drive thoroughly with a penetrating oil (PB Blaster or the like), then wipe it off, then spray the drive, and particularly the shaft area, with DuPont Dry Teflon Spray Lubricant, being sure to move the Bendix gear back and forth while spraying the Teflon.

The Bendix drive gets fowled up with accumulated gunk and rust, causing the starter Bendix to not properly engage the flywheel, which is the "hum" you are hearing. Once cleaned and lubricated, the starter will engage and be happy for several years.

[Skip]

Interesting, I wouldn't have thought that with the force at which it pops out, that that was possible. Will pull it back out (not too difficult) and give it a try. Do you recommend Teflon because of the heat aspect of the spin? I obviously can't do the cleaning while it's extended and spinning, but I guess the penetrating oil will take care of that?

Thanks much - hate to have to pull my hair out further.

[JFP in PA]

The penetrating oil will cut through the rust and crud, but if left behind will attract dirt and moisture, getting you right back where you began. The dry Teflon spray leaves a very good dry lubricant layer that does not attract either, so it tends to last much longer. Typically, about 75% of the time we get a complaint like yours, cleaning and properly lubricating the Bendix gets the car back in service without jumping a couple hundred bucks for another starter.

[Skip]

Managed to find the Dupont Teflon Spray at our local Lowe and I have spray penetrating oil, 's so will try this tomorrow night as I have to relocate the vehicle to be able to jack it up again to reach the starter - need some assistance with that part. At least it's easy to reach and get our (long arms and all.

I bought the rebuilt starter through Pelican about 18 months ago, so technically it's still under warranty if this doesn't fix it - I'd rather it did though - takes a long time to get things up north here.

Thanks again. I'll post how things go.

[Skip]

Well, it unfortunately appears that I may be one of the 25%. After removing the starter again, and cleaning it numerous times, drying it off and lubricating it numerous times, it did kick the gear out and spin much better, but it was sluggish still in its movement. It didn't have the kick that I believe it's supposed to (reinstalled it again, and still the same problem). I believe it may be the solenoid / forks not giving as much pressure as it should. I have confirmed with Pelican that my rebuilt starter is still under warranty, so have ordered a replacement (only the cost of shipping, so that's not as bad. Will post once again, once I get the new starter - hoping that solves my issue.

Thanks again.

[JFP in PA]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out. Sticking Bendix drives are a common phenomenon on these cars, but if the solenoid has gone south, no amount of lubrication will fix it. Unfortunately, outside of a starter rebuilding shop, parts for these starters are difficult to come by, making replacement the common option.

[wvicary]

Are you sure you connected the ground cable from the transaxle to the chassis?

[Skip]

It is what it is. I reconfirmed the ground strap off the transmission was clean and secure. Also tested the yellow wire coming from the ignition switch to confirm it had appropriate voltage. It had 11.86 V when going from wire to body ground, so I think I'm good there too.

[Skip]

To close off this issue and provide the result of further research, I can honestly say - user error. It appears that in my haste to replace the flywheel and clutch and get it reassembled, I failed to notice the ring gear on the old clutch - i.e. I didn't transfer it to the new clutch. I had thought that the starter engaged the flywheel vice the ring gear (apparently the flywheel teeth are only used for sensors in this case). So, remove engine, add ring gear, reassemble and reinstall engine, turn key - vroom. Problem solved (painful but very useful lesson).

Thanks to everyone for your ideas and input.

Skip

Edited April 16, 2011 by Skip