997-2 Clutch

[PMAV]

Hi Guys,

I have a huge problem. I just bought a beautiful 997-2 Traga 4S with 4,124 miles from Manhattan Motor Cars.

Since I plan to keep the car for a long time and was bringing it to Canada I got the CPO with it. MMC seemed very thorough and emailed me the CPO inspection report as well as the work order for the PCM recall that they completed. I also engaged US Auto Imports to arrange transport to Toronto, customs clearance and Canadian certification. US Auto Imports were also highly recommended by several members of PCA Upper Canada who have used them and they have provided excellent service.

US Auto Imports had the car transported via flatbed to the transport company’s yard near the Canadian border, close to Buffalo NY, then they were going to drive the car to the border, clear customs and bring it into Canada.

MMC sent me photos of the car as it was being loaded on the flatbed, as well as a photo of the instrument cluster showing mileage of 4,124.

When the US Auto Imports driver got to the border they contacted me saying the clutch is shot, it engages but vehicle slips upon acceleration. Engine is revving but vehicle is not moving very well. They also sent me photos showing the current mileage is 4,129.

I had them flatbed the car to a Porsche dealer in Buffalo NY where they dropped the transmission and determined that the clutch is completely shot and the flywheel must also be replaced. They also attached photos showing some kind of fibre residue all around the clutch, but no sign of any fluid leakage.

MMC claims their PCO inspection was very thorough, they would have been happy to put a new clutch in (and have PCNA pay for it) during the CPO process. Naturally, neither the original factory warranty nor the CPO covers the clutch, so now I am trying to determine where liability should be directed: MMC/PCNA or transport? I never heard of a clutch needing replacement after 4,000 miles nor being blown in 5 miles.

I have uploaded photos of the clutch during disassembly, does anyone have any ideas?

The clutch

Many thanks,

Peter

[PMAV]

... just an after thought - the car was driven the 5 miles with summer tires in the winter conditions we had this week around Buffalo. Could that have shredded the clutch to this extent?

Peter

[whall]

Peter,

Did the CPO paper work give any indication of the operating hours and/or ignitions history?

I would have the dealer hook up a PIWIS to the car and check the DME for the "ignitions" history and compare that against the number of hours. For example, if the car has operated 120 hours and there is a history of rev limiter action at +/-119.9 hours, it would tend to indicate that the car had been (possibly) abused by the last person who had driven it.

Bill

[SA321]

1. My experience with MMC is - I will never ever ever deal with those people. ( I bought new Cayenne there). It was most degrading experience ever. If anyone wants to hear more with names of people let me know. (I have wrote to PCNA about it)

2. Your clutch will fail with all this stuff inside since guide sleeve and clutch release bearing would not slide back and force along the axe and engage and disengage. Sometimes even small amount of dust and crooked pressure plate will make them stuck. I am not a big expert but my guess is that first your clutch plate got shredded (my guess would be it is difficult to shred it so bad in 5 miles of any kind of driving, so check with MMC) and after all that debris was inside it failed to engage

P.S. hard to tell from pic but look at the pressure plate and see if it is not cracked (happens as well)

Edited February 10, 2011 by SA321

[wvicary]

I would have to say this is due to abuse. Don't you have some recourse from the seller as you haven't even driven the vehicle yet. I have seen a clutch on a VW distoryed in one day as the customer was driving around town using only third gear. It was his first manual vehicle and thought it only had reverse and the one forward gear.

[PAULSPEED]

I think the oddometer has been tampered with. Some cars, you can pull

the speedometer out of the transmission and put a cork or plug in

the hole. The car would drive fine but you would not know how fast

you were going unless you had a gps.

I would not trust the mileage on your car.

Paul

[PMAV]

Peter,

Did the CPO paper work give any indication of the operating hours and/or ignitions history?

I would have the dealer hook up a PIWIS to the car and check the DME for the "ignitions" history and compare that against the number of hours. For example, if the car has operated 120 hours and there is a history of rev limiter action at +/-119.9 hours, it would tend to indicate that the car had been (possibly) abused by the last person who had driven it.

Bill

Thanks for the suggestion. The only items that are not mere check boxes on the CPO were the brake pad and rotor measurements. I have asked the dealer replacing the clutch to look into the ignition history.

[whall]

Peter,

Did the CPO paper work give any indication of the operating hours and/or ignitions history?

I would have the dealer hook up a PIWIS to the car and check the DME for the "ignitions" history and compare that against the number of hours. For example, if the car has operated 120 hours and there is a history of rev limiter action at +/-119.9 hours, it would tend to indicate that the car had been (possibly) abused by the last person who had driven it.

Bill

Thanks for the suggestion. The only items that are not mere check boxes on the CPO were the brake pad and rotor measurements. I have asked the dealer replacing the clutch to look into the ignition history.

You can also multiply the number of operational hours by 32-33 miles per hour to get a rough check on the mileage indicated on the odometer. I would expect to see 125-135 operating hours equating to the 4129 miles indicated on the odometer.

Bill

Edited February 13, 2011 by whall

[997onthebrain]

MMC is absolutely the worst Porsche dealer in the country. They stand for nothing, lack integrity and lie continually. AVOID them at all costs...

[whall]

But you have to admit, they know their product:

http://www.manhattanmotorcars.com/vehicle_new_ext.asp?v=972014

Bill

[CaptnCrash]

But you have to admit, they know their product:

http://www.manhattanmotorcars.com/vehicle_new_ext.asp?v=972014

Bill

too funny !

2010 Porsche 911 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<--- yep it's a 911 they got that right -- NOT

Style 4dr HB Turbo <---------------------------- yep they sure know it ...

Price Contact Us for Pricing

Special Price Contact Us for Pricing

Exterior Color Platinum Silver Metallic

Interior Black Leather

Engine 4.8L <-------------------------------------really !!!!!!!!!

Transmission Automatic

Body Style 4dr Car <------------------------ really !!!!!!!!!!

VIN Number WP0AC2A74AL090790

Stock Number 090790

Equipment

------------------------------------

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e31'

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver]Timeout expired

/vehicle_new_ext.asp, line 1617

-------------------------------------

and it looks like their web programmer is as good as their knowledge of the product ...

--CC

Edited April 11, 2011 by CaptnCrash

[magcuda]

This is a miss downshift, seen it many times. The pictures prove it

The guy driving went from 5 to 2 gear going highway speed

In the air cooled cars the clutch would not come apart and bend valves and sometimes destroy the engine

[tekky]

But you have to admit, they know their product:

http://www.manhattan...xt.asp?v=972014

Bill

That's a nice 911!