New engine

[roadsession]

So in December my IMS bearing let go at 60K miles.

I got my new engine installed today by Herb Chambers Porsche:

and here's what she sounded like BEFORE:

and here's what she purrs like now:

[Loren]

Very nice! Congratulations!

(I made your YouTube videos visible here)

[phillipj]

Congratulations as well! Nice to see a new engine without Cosmoline on it. Enjoy!:clapping:

[judgejon]

"purrs like a kitten....." (Beach Boys, Litte Deuce Coupe)

If you dont mind my asking, what year was the car, engine a 3.4 or 3.6, how much did you lay out, and where is this dealer located.

Just curious. I have about 31k on my 2003 3.6 C4S, and its my nature to always look down the road at the curves coming up.

PM reply is ok if you prefer. Thanks.

[1schoir]

Congratulations as well! Nice to see a new engine without Cosmoline on it. Enjoy!:clapping:

+1 on No Cosmoline!

Regards, Maurice.

[roadsession]

"purrs like a kitten....." (Beach Boys, Litte Deuce Coupe)

If you dont mind my asking, what year was the car, engine a 3.4 or 3.6, how much did you lay out, and where is this dealer located.

Just curious. I have about 31k on my 2003 3.6 C4S, and its my nature to always look down the road at the curves coming up.

PM reply is ok if you prefer. Thanks.

2002 C4 Cab 3.6

Dealer is in Boston MA.

Parts and labor was $25K.

Warranty covered most of it.

[grey dave]

That's great,where did you get a warranty that covers a 60,000 mi. Porsche engine failure ? I'm sure a lot of us 996 owners would be interested in it.

[valley996]

Wow! Engine gone at 60,000 miles! And we pay a fortune for these cars and a fortune for parts! Congratulations? For what?

NADA retail = car $29,000 and put a $25,000 engine in it! That is robbery! Thank goodness you had a warranty. I believe Porsche is a great car, but for parts to be 5x the cost of other car makers, I don't believe it is worth it! You can get the same performance from much cheaper cars. I am giving up my Porsche dream and going to get rid if my 99 996.

I am really regretting my purchase at this point. I bought a 1999 996 C2 and I have already spent about $3,000 on fixing things and I still have to put a torque converter in it? Also, I probably need to do the rear main seal and IMS bearing. Anyone want it for $18,000? I will be losing $4,000! I'm done.

Edited January 15, 2011 by valley996

[PILFILR]

That's great,where did you get a warranty that covers a 60,000 mi. Porsche engine failure ? I'm sure a lot of us 996 owners would be interested in it.

Was this an extended warranty?? Also, is your 996 a 2002.5 (MK2)??

[judgejon]

That's great,where did you get a warranty that covers a 60,000 mi. Porsche engine failure ? I'm sure a lot of us 996 owners would be interested in it.

Was this an extended warranty?? Also, is your 996 a 2002.5 (MK2)??

with a 3.6 I believe it would be an MK2.

[phillipj]

Wow! Engine gone at 60,000 miles! And we pay a fortune for these cars and a fortune for parts! Congratulations? For what?

NADA retail = car $29,000 and put a $25,000 engine in it! That is robbery! Thank goodness you had a warranty. I believe Porsche is a great car, but for parts to be 5x the cost of other car makers, I don't believe it is worth it! You can get the same performance from much cheaper cars. I am giving up my Porsche dream and going to get rid if my 99 996.

I am really regretting my purchase at this point. I bought a 1999 996 C2 and I have already spent about $3,000 on fixing things and I still have to put a torque converter in it? Also, I probably need to do the rear main seal and IMS bearing. Anyone want it for $18,000? I will be losing $4,000! I'm done.

I guess I was never under the impression that a used German performance car (of any make) was a good investment. You buy them because you love them.. Not because they make sense financially. Like any used german performance car a warranty is always a good idea. I had a 996 blow up on me (no warranty).. I was mad but it didn't stop me from buying another one (with a warranty.)

By the way your car is 12 years old.. Just sayin...

[roadsession]

I purchased an exclusionary warranty from Fidelity Warranty Services - which is ONLY sold through dealers.

The conditions with which Fidelity would warranty my car was that it had to have a PPI done by the Porsche dealer selling the Warranty (which for me was Danbury Porsche) so that they could weed out 'pre-existing conditions'. And the cut off when I purchased it was 50K miles and 2002.

It was $4K for a 3 yr warranty.

The new engine comes with another 2 year 100K mile warranty.

The only problem with after market warranty is that they reserve the right to replace with "Like Kind Quality" which means I learned that they had the right to replace my engine with a used engine from salvage as long as it was the same year or newer engine with same or less miles as when mine when kaput.

I paid the difference for a new engine from Porsche.

[phillipj]

Road session..

So how much did you have to pay out of pocket?

[1schoir]

Road session..

So how much did you have to pay out of pocket?

Phillip:

I recently got a quote for a new 3.6 engine from a dealer: a little over $13K plus $3K for core charge plus shipping.

Regards, Maurice.

[roadsession]

Road session..

So how much did you have to pay out of pocket?

about $1K

[phillipj]

Thanks Maurice.. They are even cheaper now....

[roadsession]

Thanks Maurice.. They are even cheaper now....

So :

dismantler quoted $15K for a USED 2004 996 engine with 18K miles.

Dealer was $16K for a NEW / REMAN engine

[txhokie4life]

Thanks Maurice.. They are even cheaper now....

So :

dismantler quoted $15K for a USED 2004 996 engine with 18K miles.

Dealer was $16K for a NEW / REMAN engine

I've need to be charging more.....

I've got 3 different 996 3.6L spanning 4500-33k miles all less than $9k. No core charge.

mike

[jzwu]

I heard there are aftermarket IMS bearing fixes that can prevent this kind of engine blowup. The part costs from $150 (Pelican Parts) and $500-600 (LN engineering), but the installation costs a few grand. :cursing:

Anyway for a few grand the engine blowup can be avoided as well as the $10-20k cost for a new/reman engine.

Edited February 8, 2011 by jzwu

[roadsession]

I heard there are aftermarket IMS bearing fixes that can prevent this kind of engine blowup. The part costs from $150 (Pelican Parts) and $500-600 (LN engineering), but the installation costs a few grand. :cursing:

Anyway for a few grand the engine blowup can be avoided as well as the $10-20k cost for a new/reman engine.

yes that's right. About $2K to install a LN Engineering IMS bearing

[jzwu]

And while you are there, you can do the clutch (if it is a manual) and the RMS as well. Same labor with just additional parts cost.

[valley996]

There are numerous American and Japanese performance cars that last way past 12 years without having to replace an engine. My point is the parts are way overpriced. I also have an old Chevrolet Suburban with 100,000 miles, no problems and no worry about IMS bearings, cylinders, RMS, etc. Parts are cheap as well. Chevrolet was able to build a very dependable work horse engine that would last for well over 100,000 miles.

I consider any car an investment because you expect to get some of your money back out of it. Today's cars (12 years old) should not be it's death, especially when the original price was $70,000 in 1999! Porsche should have addressed this particular engine with all cars not just the ones that blew up under warranty (because that shouldn't happen to a car with 30,000 miles)!

Wow! Engine gone at 60,000 miles! And we pay a fortune for these cars and a fortune for parts! Congratulations? For what?

NADA retail = car $29,000 and put a $25,000 engine in it! That is robbery! Thank goodness you had a warranty. I believe Porsche is a great car, but for parts to be 5x the cost of other car makers, I don't believe it is worth it! You can get the same performance from much cheaper cars. I am giving up my Porsche dream and going to get rid if my 99 996.

I am really regretting my purchase at this point. I bought a 1999 996 C2 and I have already spent about $3,000 on fixing things and I still have to put a torque converter in it? Also, I probably need to do the rear main seal and IMS bearing. Anyone want it for $18,000? I will be losing $4,000! I'm done.

I guess I was never under the impression that a used German performance car (of any make) was a good investment. You buy them because you love them.. Not because they make sense financially. Like any used german performance car a warranty is always a good idea. I had a 996 blow up on me (no warranty).. I was mad but it didn't stop me from buying another one (with a warranty.)

By the way your car is 12 years old.. Just sayin...

[Cloudsurfer]

There are numerous American and Japanese performance cars that last way past 12 years without having to replace an engine. My point is the parts are way overpriced. I also have an old Chevrolet Suburban with 100,000 miles, no problems and no worry about IMS bearings, cylinders, RMS, etc. Parts are cheap as well. Chevrolet was able to build a very dependable work horse engine that would last for well over 100,000 miles.

I consider any car an investment because you expect to get some of your money back out of it. Today's cars (12 years old) should not be it's death, especially when the original price was $70,000 in 1999! Porsche should have addressed this particular engine with all cars not just the ones that blew up under warranty (because that shouldn't happen to a car with 30,000 miles)!

Wow! Engine gone at 60,000 miles! And we pay a fortune for these cars and a fortune for parts! Congratulations? For what?

NADA retail = car $29,000 and put a $25,000 engine in it! That is robbery! Thank goodness you had a warranty. I believe Porsche is a great car, but for parts to be 5x the cost of other car makers, I don't believe it is worth it! You can get the same performance from much cheaper cars. I am giving up my Porsche dream and going to get rid if my 99 996.

I am really regretting my purchase at this point. I bought a 1999 996 C2 and I have already spent about $3,000 on fixing things and I still have to put a torque converter in it? Also, I probably need to do the rear main seal and IMS bearing. Anyone want it for $18,000? I will be losing $4,000! I'm done.

I guess I was never under the impression that a used German performance car (of any make) was a good investment. You buy them because you love them.. Not because they make sense financially. Like any used german performance car a warranty is always a good idea. I had a 996 blow up on me (no warranty).. I was mad but it didn't stop me from buying another one (with a warranty.)

By the way your car is 12 years old.. Just sayin...

I'll agree that there are plenty of cars (of all makes and from all continents) that make it well past 100k without things blowing up, but to compare a performance car to your Suburban isn't exactly a solid argument. The M96/M97 engine has several design/ manufacturing flaws, and the right thing for Porsche to do would have been to follow what Mazda with with the early RX-8 engines, and just warranty them to 100K. The fact that so many people have paid out of pocket to replace engines that didn't even last 30k is an absolute crime in any car, let alone one that isn't cheap.

The only bearing upgrade is from LN Engineering, and is about $600 in parts plus a little bit more labor than a clutch job. Now that I've been inside a few of these things, including building the LN updated 3.8 that's in my car, I don't think I'd want to own any of these things if they didn't at least have the IMS bearing upgrade.

[valley996]

I am not arguing that a Suburban compares to a Porsche in performance, but I sure haven't replaced near the parts on it as I did my Porsche. My only point is that it is absurd to congratulate someone who just replaced an engine a car with low miles and he paid $25,000 for it. That is about the value of the car! Original price $80,000. Today's value: $28,000, replace engine way before you should have to (60,000 miles) at $25,000. Congratulations, for what? Guess what? The car is still worth $28,000!

You are right, Porsche should have done more. They could at least make replacement engines affordable for their "victims".

Edited February 9, 2011 by valley996

[RF5BPilot]

I recently had my IMS bearing replaced (LNE product), RMS and clutch (disk/pressure plate/throwout bearing) + oil change -- for about $2700 (including labor, parts & tax).

I think Porsche should have given owners better support on this. Obviously, their solution was the 997.2 engine.

On the other hand, when you look at the service requirements and costs for other (genuine) high performance cars, $2700 is a drop in the bucket. We have tended to become so accustomed to Porsche reliability that people buy these expecting to get the kind of no-issue reliability that they got with their low-tech, low performance transportation-vehicle engine. If you want simple reliability and transportation, there are many Fords, Hondas, Toyotas, etc., which will do an outstanding job for you. They are genuinely good cars. They merely have limited entertainment value. Anything you pay for cars that's above basic transportation is for entertainment. If it's not that entertaining or the cost is too high, then don't.

But there are countless cars & engines that have required you to stay on top of particular issues or weaknesses. It's unfortunate that the IMS is one of them. (Note that some of the Porsche engines in the mid 70's also had IMS bearing problems.) What is important to me is, once the bearing is replaced & the RMS updated....there seem to be no other, consistent, big issues with the engine -- other than a soiled reputation. Are there other service items like the radiator reservoir or the AOS?....yep. But they are more "accessories" rather than representing something wrong with the engine itself.

If I can do some simple preventative maintenance and the engine will be solid..... excellent. The car gives me a wonderful combination of a good ride, handling, fuel economy, power and general dynamics.