Rear Axle Assembly

[por986]

Hello,

Can someone shed some light on what you would get for the roughly $1200+ difference between the axle assembly sold on Pelican Parts versus any other outlet such as allPartsExpress (recommended by my local O'Reilly Parts store)? I listed a few others I have found as well...

PelicanParts $783 each

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=986-332-024-12-M100&catalog_description=Axle%20Shaft%20Assembly%20Rear%20Right%2C%20For%20Manual%20Transmissions%2C%20Boxster%20%281997-02%29%2C%20Each

allPartsExpress $129 each

http://www.allpartsexpress.com/item.wws?sku=POR016043&itempk=131154&mfr=OPparts&weight=19.19

AutoParts Warehouse $72 each

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQPorscheQQBoxsterQQFirst_Equipment_QualityQQAxle_AssemblyQQ20002004QQW0133-1647705.html?apwcid=P1135867996W43b3f85c7ab9e&apwid31wgDh5

PartsGeek $65 each

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/134-01089325.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_term=2000-2004+Porsche+Boxster+Axle+Assembly+First+Equipment+Quality+Rear+00-04+Porsche+Axle+Assembly+2002+2001&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base

I usually follow the saying "It is expensive being cheap" and will typically spend the extra money to buy what might be perceived as the better quality part, but I need some guidance here as I really don't know much about the potential differences and seeing such a price difference has me scratching my head. Is this a simple as me just not reading thoroughly and not comparing apples to apples?

What gives?

Thanks!

[N41EF]

I replaced mine on a 03 Boxster S with original from Sunset. Three of the four boots were split and had slung grease. With shipping it was right at $1000 for both, I know they were much cheaper than Pelican. I'm guessing the other prices you list are for rebuilt.

Another option is to do you own. You can get the 4 boot kits from Sunset for about $100 and count on a couple of messy hours to rebuild them, and it took me about 4 hours to pull and install the axels.

[por986]

The $64 one is listed as "new", but who knows - that is what I am trying to figure out. Reviews on the reseller (partsGeek) aren't stellar so they are off the list. - and while they have a 1 yr warranty on parts, I haven't gotten any confirmation replies to my emails.

I have them on my garage floor contemplating rebuilding them :-\

The research goes on....

[JFP in PA]

What you can't see on the websites is the differences in quality. Pelican is probably selling OEM units, the rest are most likely Chinese made knock offs. We have had both in the shop at the same time, and there is absolutely no comparison; everything on the OEM unit is solid and well finished; not so much on the knock offs.

If complete replacement OEM units are outside your budget, consider buying the OEM parts and rebuilding your original units; you will end up with something you can depend upon……………

[59coupe]

I just replaced mine with the DSS units sold on ebay from the CVMAN ($199.) Quality looks to be acceptable and everything went together smoothly. Only time will tell but at least I have the OEM units out and can rebuild them at my leisure.

Keep the Faith "Z"

[Dr.Strangepork]

Raxles remanufactures axles...I remember for VWs they were something like $350 each. You might be able to get some for the Boxster from them:

http://www.raxles.com/

[N41EF]

If they are already removed, rebuild them your self. You'll need snap ring pliers and a cv boot clamp tool to install the new ones.Sunset had a kit they offered, one per boot with an OEM boot, two rings, and a greese pack. The six speed cars have a higher angle from trans to the wheels and the boots just don't last. As long as you got it before the joints went dry, or got grossly contaminated you should be fine re-packing and installing new boots.

The shafts I bought from Sunset were OEM in the box with original Porsche labels, they were an updated part number than what was installed on the car from new. It's been a year but it was about $1000, and was the cheapest I found for OEM parts. There are some things I don't skimp on.

Edited December 7, 2010 by N41EF

[por986]

I just replaced mine with the DSS units sold on ebay from the CVMAN ($199....

Interesting and coincidental, I emailed CVMAN asking if the ones he is selling are rebuilt OEM or what earlier today. Haven't heard anything back as of yet.

N41EF,

So mine seem to have plenty of grease packed in and aren't too dirty. I read Pelican's writeup but can't figure out all of the steps. One being, after taking the bolts off and removing the dust cap and removing the circlip, how do you pull off the assembly to slide the old boot off and place the new one on? And then, how do you put the assembly back on the axle once you have the new boot on and grease packed in? I talked with 3 different rebuild shops in town, and all of them told me they don't carry "the pressing tool" to reassemble them on a Porsche. What the heck is a pressing tool?

I will definitely take this on if I can get all of the unknowns figured out. Are there any fully detailed write-ups? I just did my IMS and RMS, and the writeups don't quite tell you all that you need to know and you have to figure it out - luckily there are great members to help out ;)

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/41-TRANS-CV_Joint_-_Boots/41-TRANS-CV_Joint_-_Boots.htm

[N41EF]

I have no idea what pressing tool you would need, I don't know of when it would be required. On the inside joint there is a cap on the back that protect the joint, tap it off, then clean the end of the shaft. There should be a circlip that keeps the axle from pulling out of the inside joint. Remove the clip andcut the boot and slide the axle out. Remove the band from the old boot, remove the boot and clean the inside joint. The inside boot comes off by sliding down the shaft. Cut the banhds, slide it off, wipe the outside joint clean. Check the joint for signs of damage and any "bad" feeling areas when you rotate it. If good, repack with CV grease, Install the outside boot, slide the inside boot on, install inside joint, pack it, then band the boot and istall dust cap.

I tend to just cut the boots all the way around and remove them in two pieces.

I've reused the dust cap on VW's I believe the Bently's says to replace it when rebuilding.

[por986]

Thanks N41EF, that is great info.

I got word back from eBay seller CVMAN

"These axles are brand new designed to meet or exceed OEM specs. They are not rebuilt or taken from salvaged vehicles."

I called them and was impressed that 1) they answered on the first ring, 2) they answered my questions regarding where the part is manufactured (out of Georgia). They also carry a typical 1yr warranty and seem very solid on customer service.

I told them that if I tracked this car and had a problem, I would hunt them down :-\ hahahha.

So now I have to make the decision. Parts from Sunset to rebuild will be around $200 (that's with 2 tubes of grease if that is enough), or $400 for the complete ebay set. hmmm... decisions descisions.

[JFP in PA]

Oh boy……………and no one on flea bay ever had any reason to deceive anyone, ever. Right.................

Did it ever occur to you that someone selling parts for a Porsche anonymously on flea bay, from a non-descript source, at prices way below what the dealers pay for the real thing, has got to involve either serious cutting of corners somewhere or merchandise of a "questionable origin"?

Jeez………………..

We have been approached by just about everyone pushing aftermarket driveline parts; every time one of two things happens: We ask them to bring representative sample of the part to the shop for us to see; and if they actually do, we usually have a good laugh and send them on their way. Or they tell us they will get back to us, and we never hear from them again…………….

The is no such thing as a free lunch……………….

[por986]

I value your input! But...

Wow, on first read, I have to say I take offense to your implication that I am so naive. Trust me, I am not ignorant to the ways of Ebay and I can tell you that SO FAR, the cvman joint does not meet the bill of being shady. And besides, I haven't bought from them yet and am still doing research, so relax..............................................

Selling Porsche parts anonymously? Um.... not quite... http://thecvman.com/. Not hard to track (address, numbers, etc.). Also, full customer service as previously stated, I have talked with them and was satisfied by the level of support so far. Also, since another member is using them right now, that is a bit more reassuring (a bit). Additionally, CVMAN will do the rebuild for me at a $25 charge per boot (plus parts). Very reasonable I think! Also, I researched a few of the others I posted initially and they failed miserably in the customer service department, not to mention horrid reviews from buyers online.

While I will pay when deemed necessary, I am tired of hearing the excuse that "this is a performance vehicle..blah blah.. and parts are expensive!" Give me a Fn' break. How many generations of expansion tanks are Boxsters on - 8 or so? Really, the genius engineers can't seem to figure it out and still charge $300? Also, if from what I am reading in my research is true that some believe that the boots on these vehicles are expected to last until the 40-50K mark, that is simply ridiculous. If the boots are the same for both inner and outer and the angle of the assembly is a likely issue, it sure doesn't seem that much thought was given to it. Why wouldn't there be a "performance" boot that takes this into account - A specialty boot that can handle it? Mark-ups exist for many reasons (like just for a name) and that is why we are all doing the DiY around here. I think alternatives have proven just as good in many areas, so there is no reason this can't be one of them.

A single CV boot for $35 - that thing better be different than the $5-$10 one for a mustang. What kind of rubber are they using? Also, as an example, some people are willing to pay thousands for a set of headphones that play frequencies your ear will never detect. While that is their prerogative, I am not one of them, nor am I a Porsche snob. I could care less what the label is on the axle as long as it can perform as "I" need it to.

Since you have the capacity to scrutinize the resellers (which I am all for and highly encourage it), why not contact CVMAN (Danny) on everyone's behalf and ask to see the part, and then let us know your expert opinion?? Now that will be much more useful! I will hold off on the purchase if you can make that happen ;)

Oh, and the full OEM is not out of my budget. But I never spend my hard earned money needlessly - that is why I am doing my research before hand. I will buy them if I can find valid data to suggest that it is necessary - that is for my driving habits/needs. Hence, why I posted to begin with.

BTW, are you a reseller? If so, how much through you?

[59coupe]

The shops you contacted may be referring to the B90-P2 wheel bearing press tool. Obviously for the wheel bearings. It is a good idea to replace the wheel bearings while you are there. Many folks have needed to replace them with as little as 20K miles. I broke down and purchased this pressing tool which was expensive. The alternative was to remove the wheel bearing carriers, while it costs little to have your carriers benched you will need an alignment after it is reassembled. I figured after 2 uses the tooling will pay for itself.

As far as the the CVMAN goes I have had good customer service, the units appear to be of good quality and have proven to be reliable so far. There are not many miles on them at this point though. I feel the same way as por986, my car does not sit in the garage so I can go out and look at it, I drive it, a lot and hard. I also maintain it. If the axles turn out to be crap, I have the OEM units on the shelf.

Keep the Faith "Z"

[mikefocke]

A shop owwner's reputation and profits depend on his using parts with little risk and high historical reliability. The individual owner doing his own work may well value the possible redo labor hours slightly differently. Different perspectives.

Plus there is always the human tendency to value cost now versus cost in the future differently.

I have multiple cars, I value down time differently from someone who has to take the bus when his car is on the rack.

You often have to pay more money to try to reduce risk...no matter if the part is a IMS bearing or an axle.

We all value that risk differently. Isn't it fun.

[JFP in PA]

"CVMan", also known as CV Restorations (Jessup, MD) is one of many small local axle shops that typically start up rebuilding off road or ATV axles and then expand into the general automotive markets. Like alternator or radiator repair shops, they fill a market need for inexpensive local repair/rebuild for area mechanical shops. Like most similar operations, they keep costs down by selective sourcing of components, with a lot of the CV's and shafts coming from the Pacific Rim; usually China or Korea. For the general repair market, the stuff they turn out is acceptable. However, if you were to disassemble their units, and compare the components with some OEM units, specifically the ones built for use in performance vehicles, you start to see some glaring differences, ranging from the materials used, to the actual size of key components. For a Honda Civic, a Toyota Camry, or some other such vehicle, their stuff will probably be fine. Start talking about the axles in an LS6 Corvette, or a Porsche, and now there is no comparison; and the life expectancy of the aftermarket units quickly becomes suspect, a point born out by the number of cheap, aftermarket axles we have pulled with relatively low miles on them because the CV's were coming apart. As a shop owner, I cannot place the reputation of my business on low cost substitutes; my customers expect, and even demand quality. At the end of the day, it is your car and your money; so choose accordingly.

The axle angle and abnormal CV boot wear is both a well know and documented issue on 6 speed Porsche's (the 5 speed cars do not suffer this issue). The axle angles under certain suspension conditions literally bind up the boots, as well as severely loading the CV's as well. Yes, it is a design issue. To my knowledge, there is no "specialty boot" available that will remedy this problem; it is mechanical in nature, so any boot material is going to be taxed to the limit, and prone to fail in less miles than you might expect.

The issue with the surge tanks in all M96/97 cars was one of wall thickness and composition. Unfortunately, because Porsche is a low volume manufacturer, designs change slowly, and parts remain expensive. As the result, the plastic surge tank in a 2007 Cadillac, which is three to four times the size of the one in a Boxster, retails for less than one third of what the current Porsche unit sells for, and you can actually change it out in about 15 min. without getting particularly dirty in the process.

No, my business is not in reselling aftermarket parts. For more than 35 years, we have specialized in the maintenance, repair, restoration, and modification of high performance street and race vehicles, including Porsches. From time to time, I take a moment to try and share some of the insight we have acquired over nearly four decades of "trying to fix them faster than our clients can break them"..................

Edited December 8, 2010 by JFP in PA

[por986]

Awesome stuff! Great info all around, I appreciate it! Performance is key, but I don't know if I am refined enough to actually tell the difference on something like this :-\ Short of the **** thing snapping or rattling my ears off, I might never know the diff.

My gut at the moment is to purchase the CVMAN set and work on the OEM ones at leisure, and once complete swap them out again somewhere down the road. Good to have a backup of sorts laying around considering that OEM or aftermarket don't seem to last all that long anyway. Also, I might be able to gauge performance much better then using both; albeit a short-term measurement. I have had two months on jack stands working on all the other stuff, so not a big deal waiting a couple of more weekends if need be. But to get something on it and drive it again will be nice while I work on the rebuild - learning something new is always fun!

"trying to fix them faster than our clients can break them" - that is a great motto!

Again, THANKS!

59Coupe,

Please post back if you run into 'any' issues at anytime - or even to praise them. If I go the same route, I will do my best to keep others informed as well! If you care, PM me with your full name so that I can tell them I am doing business partly based on your experience/input thus far. Maybe that will be a discount for you down the road should you do business with them again. - Just a thought.

Edited December 9, 2010 by por986

[Jinster]

I think both views are valid.

I just like to point out that shop owners would want to use "highly quality OEM" parts because they do a lot of replacements - say 5 a day. That's 1500 a year. With an assumed failure rate of 1% in OEM parts, that's 15 re-do jobs, or 3 days a year dedicated to re-do's - this may be acceptable. If they use the cheaper pacific rim products, with an assumed failure rate of 5%, now they are looking at 75 re-do's - or 15 days, a time that's not acceptable to a workshop. Plus they have to deal with 5 times as many angry customers. So it's much better for a workshop to use expensive and better products, because:

1. They can claim they use high quality parts

2. They don't have to deal with angry customers as much

3. They don't waste time re-doing jobs

4. The customers would bear the cost of the expensive parts anyway

From a single individual's point of view, there may not be much difference between a 1% OEM failure rate, and a 5% Pacific-Rim failure rate, if the non-OEM part is orders of magnitude cheaper than OEM.

In addition, cars like Toyota are in fact among the most reliable - what's acceptable for a Camry is certainly reliable enough for a Porsche. So there is no reason to say the cheaper parts are acceptable for Toyotas but not Porsche. It's actually the other way around.

Also, not all Asian products are nasty because they are cheap. Korean cars, for example. My girlfriend's Hyundai Accent - voted worst car of the year by Top Gear, has only had its wiper slip out of the wiper holder once as a "fault" requiring "repairs" in the last 3 years. My Boxster on the other hand, has seen some $10000 of repairs/replacements in the same time. The fact is, economies of scale would always win out on overall cost/performance ratio, even though the absolute performance level may not be as high as the more expensive counterparts.

Please, JFP, don't get angry about this. Ultimately, workshops and individuals have different priorities, and therefore end up choosing different products. There is no need for agreement in this at all, with each perspective valid for their own reasons.

Just my $0.02

Edited December 15, 2010 by Jinster