Jump to content

Welcome to RennTech.org Community, Guest

There are many great features available to you once you register at RennTech.org
You are free to view posts here, but you must log in to reply to existing posts, or to start your own new topic. Like most online communities, there are costs involved to maintain a site like this - so we encourage our members to donate. All donations go to the costs operating and maintaining this site. We prefer that guests take part in our community and we offer a lot in return to those willing to join our corner of the Porsche world. This site is 99 percent member supported (less than 1 percent comes from advertising) - so please consider an annual donation to keep this site running.

Here are some of the features available - once you register at RennTech.org

  • View Classified Ads
  • DIY Tutorials
  • Porsche TSB Listings (limited)
  • VIN Decoder
  • Special Offers
  • OBD II P-Codes
  • Paint Codes
  • Registry
  • Videos System
  • View Reviews
  • and get rid of this welcome message

It takes just a few minutes to register, and it's FREE

Contributing Members also get these additional benefits:
(you become a Contributing Member by donating money to the operation of this site)

  • No ads - advertisements are removed
  • Access the Contributors Only Forum
  • Contributing Members Only Downloads
  • Send attachments with PMs
  • All image/file storage limits are substantially increased for all Contributing Members
  • Option Codes Lookup
  • VIN Option Lookups (limited)

Recommended Posts

Posted

I want to install a fire extinguisher in my 99 996 C2. Have been able to find Halotron 2.5 pound in red bottle but I can't find one in a silver or stainless finish like I have seen advertised some time ago.

Any ideas where I can get one in that silver, stainless, brushed alum finish?

Thx...

Jim

Posted

Gang, I thought this article would be good for everybody as it tells you a little bit more about the Halon stuff. Also notice that Halon is no longer manufactured/ produced.. Hope this helps to get to grips with this issue.

Cheers HarryR

C2 1999

Cockpit Fire Protection

Halon is the only practical, cost-effective option for a fire extinguisher. A 2.5-pound bottle is the best choice.

Fire extinguishers abound in type, size and firefighting agent. Avoid cheap dry chemical designs, far right, and CO2 bottles, center. Halon products, second from left, are recommended.

by Scott Dyer

It’s underneath the pilot seat or in some other out of the way, out-of-mind location. But when you sniff smoke in flight or you overprime your Lycoming and start a stack fire on the ramp in January, your fire extinguisher may be your best friend. Do you have one?

Perhaps you haven’t looked at it in years and what a shock it would be to have it fizzle when you need it most. Or to realize in the heat of battle that you have the wrong type of extinguisher.

Perhaps you picked up a dry chemical bottle from your local Wal-Mart to replace the extinguisher that came with your 1971 Bugsmasher. You may survive the fire but after use, the corrosive effects of the chemical agent may do more damage to your avionics and wiring than the fire would have.

Might there have been a better choice? Since 1993, the manufacturing of Halon, the fire extinguishing agent of choice for aviation, has been banned by international treaty because Halon released into the atmosphere causes ozone depletion. Today, aviation is the only permitted use for Halon in the U.S. The European Union has mandated the decommissioning of nearly all Halon extinguishers and suppression systems, such as those over grills and stoves in commercial kitchens, by December 31, 2003.

Our current stocks of Halon consist of product recycled from other extinguishing systems. Sooner or later, those stocks will dry up. Replacements now coming on the market are far more environmentally friendly and without dangerous toxicity, but they have their own drawbacks.

Here’s a look at what’s out there, with some specific recommendations for extinguishers. The assumption here is that you should have one; this is basic safety equipment as important as seatbelts and back-up gyros.

FAA Says...

You may be surprised to learn that Part 91 of the FARs does not require that light-piston GA aircraft carry fire extinguishers, although they are required in commercial operations, for large (more than 12,500 pounds) and turbine-powered multiengine airplanes and in transport-category aircraft.

In 1984, the FAA issued the current Advisory Circular on handheld fire extinguishers (AC 20-42C). Although it should be updated to cover the new extinguishing agents that replace Halon, the AC still provides good guidance and recommendations. It strongly encourages the use of Halon-filled handheld extinguishers in aircraft. Halon is a halogenated hydrocarbon, consisting of a potpourri of carbon, fluorine, chlorine and bromine atoms.

Halon is a liquefied gas in the extinguisher itself and comes in several varieties denoted by four-digit names, such as Halon 1211 and Halon 1301. (For the curious, those numbers signify the number of carbon, fluorine, chlorine and bromine atoms present in each molecule of the agent.) These variants of Halon have different properties that we’ll cover later. They are all effective in interrupting the combustion process, as opposed to smothering the fire, as other agents do. They leave no residue to corrode avionics or airframes.

The downside of Halon is that it, like CFCs which were used as propellants in aerosol cans, has been identified as contributing to the depletion of the ozone layer. While the 1987 United Nations Montreal protocol, signed by the U.S. and nearly 100 other nations dealt a death blow to Halon for nearly all purposes, aviation was permitted to continue its use “until further notice.”

This is because no effective substitute agents for firefighting in aircraft had been found. At the time of the protocol, no other agent had been identified that could meet the volume, weight, effectiveness and toxicity demands of aviation.

Indeed, Halon substantially reduces the high cost of refurbishing engines exposed to foams or chemical powders during fires. Halon-charged systems protect engine, lavatory and cargo compartments in nearly every transport-category aircraft used in the world.

With this much economic push toward finding a new agent, the FAA in 1993 started a program to find a Halon replacement. After a slow start and years of dawdling, the process has preliminarily qualified several new agents, including Halotron I, for aviation use. With this development, it’s quite likely that the UN will remove the aviation exception permitting Halon use in the coming years. This will eventually force the market to use one of the replacement agents.

GA Options

Halon extinguishers suitable for GA use cost about $130 for a 2.5-pound model—the smallest size the FAA recommends— while 2.5-pound dry chemical extinguishers sell for about $20.

Because with few exceptions, private GA aircraft aren’t required by the regulations to carry a fire extinguisher on board, we can choose to ignore the FAA recommendations and buy an extinguisher that makes sense and, possibly, saves some cash. Is cheaper better? In this case, probably not.

We recommend without equivocation that every aircraft should have a properly maintained extinguisher on board. Even beyond the specter of inflight fires, why be helpless and pitiful watching your machine melt to puddles of molten aluminum on the ramp when a shot from a handheld extinguisher could have put out a fire caused by poor starting procedures or an electrical short? Few ramps are equipped with sufficient extinguishers that you could find in a hurry, so carry your own.

In deciding what type of device to buy, the best advice is to purchase either a Halon extinguisher while they are still available (and they are) or a replacement bottle filled with a Halon replacement such as Halotron I.

Even Greens shouldn’t blanche at the prospect of using a Halon extinguisher in a pinch, because the marginal detriment to the environment through occasional emergency discharge of a 2.5-pound bottle is utterly insignificant compared to the large-scale discharges of Halon that used to occur in military exercises.

Halon has been and remains the gold-standard for fire suppression, both in terms of its efficiency in snuffing out fires as well as its tolerable effects on humans in closed quarters, with the Halon replacements that recently passed FAA testing also being acceptable in this regard.

That’s not to say that Halon and its combustion products can’t be toxic. The AC recognizes that high levels of exposure may result in dizziness, impaired coordination and reduced mental sharpness. But other agents, such as dry chemicals and CO2, have more serious adverse effects on humans and equipment.

Extinguisher Ratings, Agents

The fire threat in an aircraft is a mixed bag of ordinary combustible materials. Burning fabrics, headliners, rubber and plastic are known as Class A fires. Fires fueled by flammable liquids are called Class B fires and fires involving energized electrical equipment where the non-conductivity of the extinguishing agent is critical are considered Class C fires. Any fire extinguishing agent for aircraft needs to be effective on all of these types of fires, relatively light in weight and of low toxicity to humans in the closed cabin environment. Remember, a standard part of most in-flight fire checklists is to cut off ventilation, but check your AFM.

H3R’s RT A400, a 14-ounce mini-bottle, is sold by many aviation supply houses. It’s intended as a flight bag accessory.

Extinguishers are rated by Underwriters Laboratories on the effectiveness on different classes of fires. For example, 5B:C means that the extinguisher is appropriate for flammable liquid or electrical fires, with the numbers indicating relative effectiveness on a benchmark size fire. Extinguishers rated as 4B should be twice as effective on flammable liquid fires as ones rated 2B. (Note that numerical ratings are not assigned to extinguishers rated for Class C fires.)

You can buy carbon dioxide extinguishers that are appropriate for Class B and C fires and you may think that since CO2 is an inert gas, it would be ideal for closed-cabin use. That’s not quite right, for several reasons.

CO2 extinguishers are heavy. To get the same firefighting potential out of a CO2 extinguisher for B and C class fires as a 3-pound bottle of Halon, the CO2 extinguisher will tip the scales at 14 pounds and cost around $200. More important, discharged into a closed cabin and in concentrations necessary to put out a fire, CO2 won’t leave enough oxygen to sustain life.

You need about a 34 percent concentration of CO2 to snuff out a fire, but at concentrations above 9 percent, loss of consciousness will occur. Death follows for concentrations above 20 percent for more than 20 minutes. CO2 is also hard on avionics, because on discharge, the expansion of the gas results in a rapid, deep cooling that will cold-shock components. So, CO2 is a good choice for the hangar or the ramp, but it’s a non-starter for the cockpit. It is, in fact, a hazard in the cockpit.

Dry chemical extinguishers are ubiquitous around hardware stores; small wonder since they are effective at home on a wide range of fires and they’re cheap. Less than $20 will get you about 2.5 pounds of monoammonium phosphate, a common dry chemical agent.

Blow a bottle in the cabin, however, and you’ll likely be scraping a layer of it off the windows in order to maneuver the aircraft to a safe off-airport emergency landing. That is, assuming that you survive the experience in good enough shape to land.

The powder is a fine, white material that will create dense, choking clouds of white dust. Some years ago, when we researched our first article on fire extinguishers, we discharged some dry powder extinguishers into a simulated cabin. The results were ugly.

The powder is dense enough to cause temporary breathing problems. It will also corrode the avionics and wiring to the point where thousands of dollars in unnecessary damage may be done by the extinguisher itself. Advice: if you have a dry powder extinguisher in the cockpit, get rid of it. It’s not even suitable for hangar use.

Halon

Halon is superior to these alternatives in that it’s several times more effective as an extinguishing agent per unit of weight than CO2, it leaves no residue, doesn’t corrode avionics and other aircraft parts, doesn’t impair vision and it doesn’t freeze surfaces, as CO2 does.

However, some decomposition products of Halon in a fire may result in dizziness, impaired coordination and reduced mental acuity.

In balancing these risks against the risk posed by the fire itself, the FAA says that the decomposition products of the fire, carbon monoxide, heat, smoke and oxygen depletion, are more immediate dangers to pilots and cabin occupants than are the decomposition products of Halon. That makes sense.

Halon is available on the market in two variants of interest to pilots: Halon 1211 and Halon 1301. Both are excellent and non-corrosive fire-fighting agents, although their qualities differ. Halon 1211 is what’s known as a “streaming agent,” because the agent shoots out in what is mostly a stream of liquid. Halon 1301 is a “flooding agent” and discharges mostly as a gas, giving better penetration into compact areas such as under the panel.

Halon 1301 is less prone than Halon 1211 to making undesirable decomposition products, as reflected in FAA’s suggestion that the concentration of Halon 1211 agent should not exceed 4 percent by volume of the enclosed space if the occupants can escape within 1 minute, while the comparable upper-end percentage for Halon 1301 is 10 percent. Various combinations of these two forms of Halon are marketed, which provide both streaming and flooding capability.

Halon experts recommend, by the way, that the material be directed into closed spaces rather than opening them up to expose the fire. For example, if you had an engine fire on the ground, don’t try to open the cowl to extinguish it but direct the Halon through the cowl openings.

We performed a limited, non-scientific practical test of CO2, Halon and dry chemical extinguishers. With a piece of FAR-compliant interior fabric mounted on a foam backing board not unlike what you’d find inside many GA aircraft and some gasoline applied, we had our flaming testbed.

As shown in the photos, Halon put out the fire, once and for all, with a minimum of fuss, muss and time. There was no re-ignition after only part of a 2 1/2 pound bottle was used. But we were still glad that there was more material in the extinguisher if needed. CO2, on the other hand, took about twice as long as Halon to put out the blaze. More worrisome, once the fire appeared to be out, it flamed back and needed to be smothered again with the CO2. The several types of dry chemicals we tested were each nearly as effective as Halon in extinguishing the fire. They emerge from the nozzle in a robust, focused stream. But the resulting mess was a sight to behold, with powder swirling in the light breeze and coating the entire area. One can only imagine trying to fly after one of these bottles was discharged in a closed cabin: parachutes would probably be preferable.

Recommendations

In August 2002, the FAA published a new standard for handheld aviation fire extinguishers, specifically to evaluate the performance of the Halon replacement products. Seven agents passed the FAA tests, with final certification yet to come after UL testing of how the agents perform in the specific bottle/nozzle configurations that manufacturers want to put on the market. The agent dispersal characteristics and performance can vary significantly depending on the bottle nozzle.

The RT A1200 from H3R is a 2.5-pound bottle of 1211/1301 Halon and is, in our view, the best overall choice for a cockpit fire extinguisher.

Only some of these agents are easily available today—Halotron I and FM-200—while others may be more widely marketed in coming months, including DuPont’s FE-36, POWSUS’s Envirogel products and the North American Fire Guardian P IV agent.

While all of these easily passed toxicity tests, they are not as effective in putting out fires as Halon by weight, meaning that more agent and a heavier extinguisher is needed to do the same job as Halon.

Fortunately and for a change, aviation lucked out. The industry is both allowed and encouraged to continue using Halon agents, which are cheaper and more effective than the replacements.

When buying, there are a few things to look for. Check the UL fire rating if you buy a Halon replacement extinguisher. We recommend that you don’t purchase an extinguisher with less than a 5B:C rating. Note, too, that the larger bottles may require assistance from an A&P to install a larger bracket to hold the extinguisher.

For aviation use, there appear to be about a half dozen size/volume choices to pick from, ranging from 14-ounce small bottles to 3.5 pound bottles that will squirt a stream up to 10 feet. Aircraft Spruce sells two designs in three sizes each, all made by the same manufacturer, H3R, of Larkspur, California, one of the leading suppliers of Halon.

The more expensive products contain only Halon 1301 and use nitrogen as propellant. These also have gauges which monitor the bottle pressure but once used, the entire bottle is exhausted and must be refilled. Also, according to H3R, the nitrogen-type bottles tend to leak over time.

The less expensive line uses a blend of 1211 and 1301 Halon, with the 1301 acting as a propellant. H3R tells us that for aviation use, the blend is more effective because the propellant also acts as a firefighter, which isn’t true with the nitrogen-type bottles.

Second, the 1211/1301 blend bottles tend to leak less and have a longer shelf life. They can also be discharged incrementally, although H3R recommends downgrading them for household use only if any of the bottle is discharged.

Most of the aviation discount houses carry Halon extinguishers and street prices for an extinguisher charged with 2.5 pounds of a Halon 1211/1301 blend are currently between $120 and $130. But shop around; Sporty’s charges $179.95 for its 2.5-pound bottle while Aircraft Spruce wants $126.95 for the same product. Chief charges $125.

What size? H3R tells us that the 14-ounce size is recommended for flight bag use while the 2.5-pound product is considered ideal for GA cockpits and cabins. We discharged both sizes into a roaring avgas-fed fire either on our test panel or in a drain pan and although the smaller unit did the job, there was no surplus material for a larger fire. For a few extra bucks, the larger size is worth having, in our view.

Extinguishers filled with the Halon replacement product FM-200 cost approximately $140 for a 5B:C extinguisher, holding 5.75 pounds of agent. We’ve seen Halotron I extinguishers of similar rating for about $130 at West Marine. Few of these have a directable hose, which we would prefer, although the fixed nozzle should be sufficient, based upon our trials.

However, Halon is considered twice as effective as the replacement agents and weighs half as much, so we can’t see any compelling reason not to favor it. If you have a Halon extinguisher now and you’ve either used it or the gauge says that it needs to be refilled due to leaking, take it to the nearest fire extinguisher service shop. Chances are good that one with a metal valve/trigger assembly can be refilled with recycled agent and overhauled with replacement of the rings and seals for significantly less than the cost of a new extinguisher.

Many shops won’t try to recharge similar units with plastic valves/triggers, but some will, and there isn’t any harm in asking. These shops are good sources of fire-safety knowledge.

The current supply of recycled Halon should be sufficient for some time, as European systems get taken out of service through the end of 2003 and the agent becomes available for import into the U.S. for aviation use.

Although we haven’t seen a reduction in the price of Halon extinguishers, the bulk price of recycled Halon has fallen roughly 60 percent since late 2000. The unknown factor, however, is when the U.S. will prohibit even aviation use of Halon given the recent availability and imminent certification of new replacement agents.

Also With This Article

Click here to view "Checklist."

Click here to view "Fire in Number 1! Pull the Bottle!"

Click here to view "Test Photos."

Contacts

Aircraft Spruce

225 Airport Circle

Corona, CA 92880

877-477-7823

www.aircraftspruce.com

Chief Aircraft Inc.

1301 Brookside Boulevard

Grants Pass, OR 97526

800-447-3408

www.chiefaircraft.com

H3R, Inc.

483 Magnolia Avenue

Larkspur, CA 94939

800-249-4289

www.h3r.com

Nautical Fire Suppression Ltd.

R.R. 1

Angus, Ontario

Canada L0M 1B3

705-424-7519

www.nauticalfire.com

West Marine, Inc.

P.O. Box 50070

Watsonville, CA 95077

800-262-8464

www.westmarine.com

Posted (edited)

Thx for the info. Looks like a good source I'll call them tomorrow...

Jim

Edited by jcoduto
Posted

I think Brey-Krause still sells the polished silver one

Fire_Extinguisher_mount_for_996.sized.jpg

Posted

Hroussard, any chance of the URL for that info, I would like to see the pics they refer to.

Some Qs:

Where does one buy the extinguisher mount?

Do the mount's require specific model extinguishers?

Do you have to take the seat oit to fit the mount?

Posted

Berny, here's the link for all Brey Krause equipment for Porsche. http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/index.php

the mount that I posted for the 996 (#2020) fits on the bar under the seat rather than on the rails, so the seat will still move back and forth.. unlike the earlier models (pre 996) that fit on the rails themselves.

You don't have to remove the seat, but you do have to tilt it back (at least I did) in order to attach the mount to the seat itself. Not difficult at all.

Fire_Extinguisher_mount_for_996.sized.jpg

BK_Fire_Extinguisher_installed.sized.jpg

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.