Tires

[MWS]

I probably will be replacing the tires on my '09 C4S in the next two or three months. I think my original tires were Bridgestones and I replaced them at 19,000 miles with Michelin Pilot Sport "N1" rated tires.

Does anyone have any experience with tires that are not "N" rated on a 997-2 Carrera?

I realize that Porsche recommends the "N" rated tires but they are quite expensive. I am thinking of trying something a little less costly. I paid $1,900.00 for the Michelin tires and I will probably only get about 20-22,000 miles out of them. I figure if I buy cheaper tires and don't like them they won't last long anyway. I drive a little over 2000 miles a month so I would only have to endure the cheaper tires for about ten months.

I like the looks and the price of the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo K110 tires available from Discount Tire. A set of them after rebate is less than $800.

Has anyone had experience with that brand of tires or that specific tire?

Does anyone have any rants or raves about any tires?

Thanks

MWS

[CaptnCrash]

I probably will be replacing the tires on my '09 C4S in the next two or three months. I think my original tires were Bridgestones and I replaced them at 19,000 miles with Michelin Pilot Sport "N1" rated tires.

Does anyone have any experience with tires that are not "N" rated on a 997-2 Carrera?

I realize that Porsche recommends the "N" rated tires but they are quite expensive. I am thinking of trying something a little less costly. I paid $1,900.00 for the Michelin tires and I will probably only get about 20-22,000 miles out of them. I figure if I buy cheaper tires and don't like them they won't last long anyway. I drive a little over 2000 miles a month so I would only have to endure the cheaper tires for about ten months.

I like the looks and the price of the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo K110 tires available from Discount Tire. A set of them after rebate is less than $800.

Has anyone had experience with that brand of tires or that specific tire?

Does anyone have any rants or raves about any tires?

Thanks

MWS

I have always had stellar luck and long life from Continental DW's ... Excellent grip when warm, and good in the wet too. I live in FL so not a problem here.

--CC

Edited October 8, 2010 by CaptnCrash

[996driver]

I probably will be replacing the tires on my '09 C4S in the next two or three months. I think my original tires were Bridgestones and I replaced them at 19,000 miles with Michelin Pilot Sport "N1" rated tires.

Does anyone have any experience with tires that are not "N" rated on a 997-2 Carrera?

I realize that Porsche recommends the "N" rated tires but they are quite expensive. I am thinking of trying something a little less costly. I paid $1,900.00 for the Michelin tires and I will probably only get about 20-22,000 miles out of them. I figure if I buy cheaper tires and don't like them they won't last long anyway. I drive a little over 2000 miles a month so I would only have to endure the cheaper tires for about ten months.

I like the looks and the price of the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo K110 tires available from Discount Tire. A set of them after rebate is less than $800.

Has anyone had experience with that brand of tires or that specific tire?

Does anyone have any rants or raves about any tires?

Thanks

MWS

I am running the Hankooks 19" and have been extremely happy with them. Great on autocross and the street. I will run them at Roebling in a week and let you know if I am happy on the track. So far A+

[phillipj]

Everyone I know that has tried the Hankook's on their 911's loves them. Best deal out there. The Michelin's are way over priced. I'm considering them (The Hankooks) for my Turbo. 800 bucks? Sounds good to me.

Do a Google search for a Car & Driver tire comparisom. The Hankooks did very well..

Edited October 11, 2010 by phillipj

[MWS]

Thanks guys for the responses to my tire question. I will probably go with the Hankook Ventus tires. I will try to post a review of the tires - both initial impression and then again a couple of months later after I have driven them 4000-5000 miles.

MWS

[MWS]

I went to have my Michelin Pilot Sport tires rotated today and found that the rear tires needed to be replaced. The front tires still have some useful life in them. The tire dealer had two Hankook Ventus V12 tires available for the rear so I had them installed. (I still have the Michelins on the front.)

My initial impression is, compared to the worn out Michelins the new tires are much quieter. Of course that is probably no surprise.

I drove 35 miles home on them and I must say they felt a little looser than the Michelins. Of course that may simply be the difference of the tread depth of the new tires compared to worn out Michelins.

I drive about 100 miles a day so in a week or so I will post again and comment on them more.

MWS

Edited October 22, 2010 by MWS

[MWS]

OK, so I have been driving on the Hankook Ventus V12 tires on the rear of my C4S for about 800 miles. I still have the old Michelin Pilot Sport tires on the front. I wanted to give the group my feedback at this point.

I'll start with the good:

Attractive tread design.

Quieter than my old worn out Michelin Pilot Sport tires.

Less expensive than the Michelins.

Unfortunately that's the end of my favorable impression.

On with the bad:

Car does not track in a straight line. I'm having to constantly steer to correct the car's tendency to drift unpredictably in the lane. I probably look like a drunk driver to anyone following me.

Traction control system engages as I go around corners. This occurs while driving in conditions and at speeds that in this car previously never caused even a hint that tire tires were about to lose their grip.

I absolutely wound NOT recommend putting these tires on a 4S. I read favorable reviews for the Hankooks from people with Boxters, Corvets, and BMWs. It makes me wonder what kind of lousy tires had they been driving on before buying the Hankooks.

My plan at this point is to continue to drive on the Hankooks until my front tires need replacing then I will replace all four tires with a set of "N rated" tires.

Costly lesson learned.

Hope this helps.

[ADias]

MWS:

There is no tire rotation in 997s. You can exchange tires left to right on the same axle if the tires are not unidirectional but what's the point?

Second. Never, never mix different tire styles between front and rear. Both axles must have the same exact tire compound/brand/type including N-rating if a N-rated tire. Your adding Hankook to the rear while maintaining PS2 at the front is total folly. The tire shop you used is utterly incompetent. That is why your handling was screwed up.

[ADias]

^ more... On a 4wd 997 mixing different tires front and rear may actually damage the AWD system. Just crazy!

[MWS]

ADias, you certainly made some interesting comments.

My question to you is are these your Opinions are do you in fact know that what you have stated about mixing "N" rated and "Non-N" rated tires to be harmful to the vehicle. If what you have said is FACT then I would like to know the sources of your information so that I might review the information for myself. On the other hand, if what you have stated is merely YOUR OPINION that mixing two tire types may be harmful to my vehicle then I will certainly take your opinion and inferred advice into consideration.

I think it is important to clarify what is FACT versus OPINION.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion

That being said, I now have a couple of thousand miles on the Hankook Ventus tires. Perhaps they needed a "break-in" period because they are handling much better now. Although the car still tracks a little loose in that it drifts left and right unpredictably it does seem to have improved. Likewise the traction control system has not kicked in in quite awhile as I go around corners although the C4S does not feel as solid as it did with the Michelin Sports I previously had.

I still don't think I would recommend the Hankook tires on a C4S, but maybe a set of four instead of two as I have, might perform better. Bottom line, however, is if you can afford the "N" rated tires buy them instead of the Hankooks.

[996driver]

ADias, you certainly made some interesting comments.

My question to you is are these your Opinions are do you in fact know that what you have stated about mixing "N" rated and "Non-N" rated tires to be harmful to the vehicle. If what you have said is FACT then I would like to know the sources of your information so that I might review the information for myself. On the other hand, if what you have stated is merely YOUR OPINION that mixing two tire types may be harmful to my vehicle then I will certainly take your opinion and inferred advice into consideration.

I think it is important to clarify what is FACT versus OPINION.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion

That being said, I now have a couple of thousand miles on the Hankook Ventus tires. Perhaps they needed a "break-in" period because they are handling much better now. Although the car still tracks a little loose in that it drifts left and right unpredictably it does seem to have improved. Likewise the traction control system has not kicked in in quite awhile as I go around corners although the C4S does not feel as solid as it did with the Michelin Sports I previously had.

I still don't think I would recommend the Hankook tires on a C4S, but maybe a set of four instead of two as I have, might perform better. Bottom line, however, is if you can afford the "N" rated tires buy them instead of the Hankooks.

Style aside and with all respect, there is adequate evidence that one should not mix tires from front to rear. Without going through a "prove it" let me offer a "consider this" and see if it causes us to think about how a tire's traction works by illustrating a couple of points.

What if I put Hoosier R6 slicks (max adhesion) on the front of a 911 and flexible sidewall all season tires (minimum adhesion) on the rear. How would this effect the way the car rotates through a turn?

What if I then put the R6 slicks (max adhesion) on the rear and the flexible side wall all season tires (minimum adhesion) on the front of the 911. How would this effect the way the car rotates through a turn?

Considering the ~60/40 weight distribution and the pivot point of a 911 when answering. How does the sidewall flexibility effect the slip angle of each tire in these two situations.

What would happen in the wet and in the dry? What would happen to braking?

The N-Rating has to do with load ability and thus sidewall stiffness considering they are designed for a truly one of a kind application on a vehicle with up to a 63%/47% weight distribution. What other car has this characteristic?

After you develop an understanding of what a tire does, what it can do and what it cannot do you will appreciate why Porsche goes to the effort to actually co-develop tires. Think about the examples.

You will then understand a little bit of why it is advisable to have matching tires front and rear (especially on a 911).

I went through this because while I do not know about damaging the all-wheel drive system, I do know that Adidas is correct in his post. Mismatching tires front and rear can be dangerous. Most folks who don't know better will not mismatch "slicks and slops" but why not learn what to do and do it right. Then again, most folks are not driving 911's. Porsche driving is so much more than just owning a Marquee car. It is a lifelong pursuit to understand why THESE cars can do things no other car on the road can do and then learn to make them do it on a track. It is about understanding why these cars consistently win and win and win. Understanding why Porsche refines rather than reinvents.

Above all, P-car drivers look out for each other and help each other learn. No one here wants to see anyone get hurt or hurt someone else so make your tire choice based on your driving style and be safe.

Here is a link to a great book, if you have not already read it, which explains what I am illustrating. It is less than $11.00 on amazon. Give it a read.

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Solo-Racing-Techniques-Autocrossing/dp/0962057312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290913198&sr=8-1

I am on my P-Car learning curve, have been for 6 years now and am having the time of my life with other P-Car fans in the PCA, Chin MS and online. I hope this helps instead of "proving it".

All the best,

Scott

BTW, did you figure out how the two examples will react?

[jungwook]

my opinion

+1 for Scott

+1 for ADias

-1 for the shop that recommended the change but a lot of them do that.