Cayenne S

[mrtee]

Could somebody please HELP!

I've got a cayenne s 2004 65,000 miles on the clock

Under 40mph drives perfect, drive over 40mph, get a vibration through the steering and a noise however if you apply the brakes the noise stops.

Anyone experienced this.

[mudman2]

1 - Brake Rotors

2 - Wheels need to be road force balanced

[mrtee]

1 - Brake Rotors

2 - Wheels need to be road force balanced

thanks im taking it to the garage tomorrow

i'll put forward your suggestion

[CyWebit]

I'm having same problem with my 2004 S. I just got new Pirelli's tires mounted by the dealer - paid for the RoadForce. I don't think they know how to use that machine properly. I brought it back, they rebalanced all 4 and said 2 were out of balance and added some weight. About a 1 later it developed a bad vibration that begins at 67mph and it really bad above 80mph. From what I noticed, it seems to vibrate less when the tires are colder and gets really bad when they heat up. Anybody have any ideas? I'm seriously thinking about asking for my money back and going somewhere else if they can't get it right after 3 tries. I also need rotors, but the vibration was not there before I got the tires?

[mudman2]

Mounting the tires can be a PIA, I have had them taken off and rotated 90 degrees on the same wheel and it cured it after RFB

[mrtee]

rfb?

[CTTinTO]

just a couple of points since I worked 8 years for an OE on working on suspension/steering/nvh problems

(1) it is true that many techs do not know how to use the road force balancing machines

(2) most dealers do not do a good job of keeping their RFB machines in proper calibration - calibration takes 2 minutes and all you need to do is follow the screen prompts

(3) many techs when installing new tires, especially on 18"+ wheels, tend to put too much lubricant to help with the tire install on the wheel. This is great to prevent side wall damage but it poses other problems. Because the lubricant takes some time to dry, it is common for the tire to slip on the w heel. Hence, you may have a good balance but on your first brake application, the wheel moves position and your balance is out the door.

(4) most tire machines do not do a good job of seating the tire bead. after driving on the tire, the bead will seat and your original balance will no longer be good.

what I am trying to say is that there are many factors in just tire balance alone that can cause issues.

I would recommend going to a dealer or tire shop that

(1) uses a RFB machine ie: a Hunter GSP9000 or similar

(2) request the balancer be calibrated prior to using to balance your wheels (again, this is a 2 minute job and they should be doing this daily anyhow!)

(3) inflating the tire to seat the bead, then deflating and re-flating again can help with seating the bead seat properly - also hitting the sidewall with a rubber mallet during inflation helps

(4) ask what kind of lubricant is used to install the tire on the wheel - the wax type is best as it dries quick - if they use soap, request that they wipe off all excess soap from the bead before they inflate the tires and seat the bead

(5) when balancing, request that they do a "dynamic" balance first but then do a second balance to correct the "static" balance as close as possible to zero

finally, if your dealer or independent has a on-car balancer (or finishing balancer) request that they perform an oncar balance. This will yield the best results for vibration as you now are balancing a corner and taking all imbalances into consideration ie: tire, wheel, rotor, driveshaft etc... I hear that Porsche dealerships do have this equipment (Hoffman on-car finish balancer) but I dont know as I have never been to a porsche dealer. I buy all my cars used and do all my own service/repairs.

on a side note, when I got my 06' (almost 2 months ago) there was a bit of steering roughness + shimmy and body roughness at hwy speeds. I didnt have time to balance the wheels but I lifted the vehicle, loosened all lug nuts, lowered the vehicle so that all the wheels where *just* touching the ground and I retorqued all wheels using a torque wrench to spec (118ft-lbs) and my vibration was gone after that. I'm guessing the PO (which only serviced his car at the dealer) didnt get the wheels torqued properly.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[AndyA6]

Wow Mike! I wish we had a tire shop here like you describe!

[mudman2]

At my dealer there is basically 1 tech who is great at tires and he tends to do them all. They banned certain techs from using the Hunter.

[Brit6]

WOW, finally i found one person that knows what they are talking about. All the kids that use the balancers here are horrible, some don't even know about staggered wheel sizes.

I see that you are located in Toronto! Do you work at a garage in Toronto? Is this something that we could bring to you for you to check out and perform properly as described?

just a couple of points since I worked 8 years for an OE on working on suspension/steering/nvh problems

(1) it is true that many techs do not know how to use the road force balancing machines

(2) most dealers do not do a good job of keeping their RFB machines in proper calibration - calibration takes 2 minutes and all you need to do is follow the screen prompts

(3) many techs when installing new tires, especially on 18"+ wheels, tend to put too much lubricant to help with the tire install on the wheel. This is great to prevent side wall damage but it poses other problems. Because the lubricant takes some time to dry, it is common for the tire to slip on the w heel. Hence, you may have a good balance but on your first brake application, the wheel moves position and your balance is out the door.

(4) most tire machines do not do a good job of seating the tire bead. after driving on the tire, the bead will seat and your original balance will no longer be good.

what I am trying to say is that there are many factors in just tire balance alone that can cause issues.

I would recommend going to a dealer or tire shop that

(1) uses a RFB machine ie: a Hunter GSP9000 or similar

(2) request the balancer be calibrated prior to using to balance your wheels (again, this is a 2 minute job and they should be doing this daily anyhow!)

(3) inflating the tire to seat the bead, then deflating and re-flating again can help with seating the bead seat properly - also hitting the sidewall with a rubber mallet during inflation helps

(4) ask what kind of lubricant is used to install the tire on the wheel - the wax type is best as it dries quick - if they use soap, request that they wipe off all excess soap from the bead before they inflate the tires and seat the bead

(5) when balancing, request that they do a "dynamic" balance first but then do a second balance to correct the "static" balance as close as possible to zero

finally, if your dealer or independent has a on-car balancer (or finishing balancer) request that they perform an oncar balance. This will yield the best results for vibration as you now are balancing a corner and taking all imbalances into consideration ie: tire, wheel, rotor, driveshaft etc... I hear that Porsche dealerships do have this equipment (Hoffman on-car finish balancer) but I dont know as I have never been to a porsche dealer. I buy all my cars used and do all my own service/repairs.

on a side note, when I got my 06' (almost 2 months ago) there was a bit of steering roughness + shimmy and body roughness at hwy speeds. I didnt have time to balance the wheels but I lifted the vehicle, loosened all lug nuts, lowered the vehicle so that all the wheels where *just* touching the ground and I retorqued all wheels using a torque wrench to spec (118ft-lbs) and my vibration was gone after that. I'm guessing the PO (which only serviced his car at the dealer) didnt get the wheels torqued properly.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[mrtee]

Update on the Cayenne

Garage messed me around, had the car 2days. They never did anything major, didnt even charge. I think it was just because they was buzy and they had more easier jobs to get on with.

I decided that i was just going to take it to porsche.

However on the way home i treated myself to some brand new 22 inch wheels and brand new tyres.

Funny enough the noise complete went away and there's no vibration.

Problem sorted

Thanks for all the input.

[CTTinTO]

WOW, finally i found one person that knows what they are talking about. All the kids that use the balancers here are horrible, some don't even know about staggered wheel sizes.

I see that you are located in Toronto! Do you work at a garage in Toronto? Is this something that we could bring to you for you to check out and perform properly as described?

just a couple of points since I worked 8 years for an OE on working on suspension/steering/nvh problems

(1) it is true that many techs do not know how to use the road force balancing machines

(2) most dealers do not do a good job of keeping their RFB machines in proper calibration - calibration takes 2 minutes and all you need to do is follow the screen prompts

(3) many techs when installing new tires, especially on 18"+ wheels, tend to put too much lubricant to help with the tire install on the wheel. This is great to prevent side wall damage but it poses other problems. Because the lubricant takes some time to dry, it is common for the tire to slip on the w heel. Hence, you may have a good balance but on your first brake application, the wheel moves position and your balance is out the door.

(4) most tire machines do not do a good job of seating the tire bead. after driving on the tire, the bead will seat and your original balance will no longer be good.

what I am trying to say is that there are many factors in just tire balance alone that can cause issues.

I would recommend going to a dealer or tire shop that

(1) uses a RFB machine ie: a Hunter GSP9000 or similar

(2) request the balancer be calibrated prior to using to balance your wheels (again, this is a 2 minute job and they should be doing this daily anyhow!)

(3) inflating the tire to seat the bead, then deflating and re-flating again can help with seating the bead seat properly - also hitting the sidewall with a rubber mallet during inflation helps

(4) ask what kind of lubricant is used to install the tire on the wheel - the wax type is best as it dries quick - if they use soap, request that they wipe off all excess soap from the bead before they inflate the tires and seat the bead

(5) when balancing, request that they do a "dynamic" balance first but then do a second balance to correct the "static" balance as close as possible to zero

finally, if your dealer or independent has a on-car balancer (or finishing balancer) request that they perform an oncar balance. This will yield the best results for vibration as you now are balancing a corner and taking all imbalances into consideration ie: tire, wheel, rotor, driveshaft etc... I hear that Porsche dealerships do have this equipment (Hoffman on-car finish balancer) but I dont know as I have never been to a porsche dealer. I buy all my cars used and do all my own service/repairs.

on a side note, when I got my 06' (almost 2 months ago) there was a bit of steering roughness + shimmy and body roughness at hwy speeds. I didnt have time to balance the wheels but I lifted the vehicle, loosened all lug nuts, lowered the vehicle so that all the wheels where *just* touching the ground and I retorqued all wheels using a torque wrench to spec (118ft-lbs) and my vibration was gone after that. I'm guessing the PO (which only serviced his car at the dealer) didnt get the wheels torqued properly.

Hope this helps...

Mike

Hey Brit6,

Yes I am in Toronto. My dad owns a shop and I work there usually only weekends. Unfortunately, he does not have a road force balancer I referred to in my rant, just a regular balancer. He does have a new Hoffman target based alignment machine that is probably the best on the market currently. If you know anyone that needs alignments...

I used to work for an OE, I was a chassis test engineer and was exposed to all this equipment (and more!) and this is where I gained all the knowledge. Thats also where I had an opportunity to spend some seat time with a Cayenne S on the proving ground and was thoroughly impressed. Hence my decision to finally buy one! :)

Most dealers will have the Hunter GSP RFBalancer and I hear a few also have the on-car finish balancers I referred to. (some porsche and lexus dealers) I would suggest you call your dealer or tire shop and ask what type of equipment they have before letting them touch your vehicle. Also a brief discussion about road force balancing and static vs. dynamic balance will give you a hint as to whether or not this shop knows their stuff.

I'm contemplating in the future opening a small shop that specializes in tires & wheels, alignments and front end/suspension work using state of the art equipment. But this is still a few years away and dependent on my current job and where it may take me.

Mike