Engine failure

[cdupont0734]

Hi, I own a 1999 Porsche 911 coupe C2 w 6 speed transmissions. It has 70k miles. I bought the car last November 2009. Previously the car was leased. I had an inspection done at a Porsche dealer before buying it.

I few weeks ago, I was driving on the highway and the check engine light came on followed by power loss. I pulled over right away and turned the engine off. I then had it towed to a Porsche dealer. They took the transmissions out and told me there was no RMS or IMS problem. Then they did a leak down test and found leakage. Then they took the engine out and took the heads off and saw that a valve was bent. This was due to broken valve spring.

At first they thought I had missed a shift but the computer showed that there was a range 1 over rev. 50 hours ago. I believe this happened when I was on a DE day. I was told to keep it in 3rd gear for the first few laps and I hit the rev. limiter once or twice going about 100mph.

My question is how much labor can I expect to be charged for doing this partial rebuild?

By the way a rebuild factory engine is $18,000 these days so I am going ahead with the repair. I see that Motor Meister sells rebuilt engines for $6,000 plus shipping and putting the engine back in the car will probably cost me more than the repair.

This is the work I expect to be done:

• remove transmission and engine (done),
• remove heads (done),
• replace one spring and one valve,
• re-seat the valves,
• remove carbon build-up. There is quite a bit and I believe I have been burning it off with my spirited driving as some of it is flaking off,
• upgrade the IMS,
• replace alternator belt,
• replace oil diaphragm (minor leaking),
• replace flywheel and clutch. Flywheel is sunk in and dual mass has to much play. Clutch is worn down to almost the rivets,
• put the engine back together, put back in the car and replace all fluids.
• 
• 
  

[phillipj]

NO Motor Meister! Also stay away from Fabian Roock They are crooks and stay far far away.

There are many competent engine builders. Contact Jake Raby at LN engineering. Google him and you will get his contact info.

There are a few very good engine builders here is So Cal as well. I see that you are in Canada. I know there are some good guys there. Do a search here and you may find some threads. Be very cautious and do your research.

I'm sorry about your situation (I have been in your shoes.)

Good luck

Edited September 22, 2010 by phillipj

[JFP in PA]

Jake Raby owns Flat Six Innovations, Charles Navarro owns LN Engineering.......................

[slbates]

I feel your pain. I suffered a broken valve spring a few years back. A simple bore scope inspection revealed a shiny smile on the top of one piston. A compression test confirmed zero on that cylinder with the others being fine. I exchanged PM's with another person here who went the repair route vs. replace. You could do a search and probably find the postings concerning this same issue. If he is still on the board, he may be able to give you some ideas on cost. If I were you, I would replace all of the springs on both heads at a minimum.

BTW, my valve spring failure was not the result of an overrev....car was a Tip

[Dharn55]

If it did not damage the head or the piston you might just be able to do a complete valve job (new valves, springs, guides, seals, etc.) on that head. In the picture of the block I don't see the chain from the IMS to the cam/head. Was this removed? I see the guide rails for it.

[scottiemac]

You might want to give Competition Motors in Belleville a call (no affiliation). They are listed on the L&N site as an authorized installer and I've heard they have a fairly good reputation with Porsche motors.

Cheers, Scott

[c70Pete]

Hi,

I can highly recommend Courtney Walsh of EU Autowerks in the Toronto area... Courtney has rebuild many many 996 motors personally and has a large customer following and great reputation for quality work.

905-850-7600 and ask for Courtney or Domenic.... Domenic is the service manager and has been through this many times.... good luck.

[goldenwarrior1]

If your going to have the engine apart I would recommend replacing the chain guides. They are a wear item and with 70K are very likely in need of replacement.May want to check the chain tensioners as well, they are known to develop scoring which can cause them to bind.

[cdupont0734]

Thanks for all the replies. Thanks for warnings and the references. It's good to know there are some good Porsche mechanics not too far away.

I have full confidence in Mark Motors and Terri the senior mechanic. Terri has been around almost as long as the dealership.

He has ordered about $4,000 in parts, including the flywheel and clutch ($1,500 and $900 respectively). He did mention, as an aside, that all the springs could be replaced. He knows I'm on a budget. I decided not to do that as I think that it was an isolated incident. The chain guides are grooved and will be replaced.

Yes, the cam chains have been removed and are not in the pic.

I suspect it will take about 50 to 70 hours do the work. I will post tha actual time when I get the car back.

[fbgh2o]

I can highly recommend Courtney Walsh of EU Autowerks in the Toronto area... Courtney has rebuild many many 996 motors personally and has a large customer following and great reputation for quality work.

905-850-7600 and ask for Courtney or Domenic.... Domenic is the service manager and has been through this many times.... good luck

I would echo that. They are a first class organization. Have you talked to Jason at AutoImport here in Ottawa? They might be able to do it as well.

[Dharn55]

Not sure about Canadian prices, but in the states a flywheel lists for $1,164.86 and can be bought for less than $900, often way less. And a clutch kit is usually around $500 or so.

How did they get the chains off without splitting the cases?

[rb101]

How did they get the chains off without splitting the cases?

Yes, I would like to know how they did this.

[cdupont0734]

I can highly recommend Courtney Walsh of EU Autowerks in the Toronto area... Courtney has rebuild many many 996 motors personally and has a large customer following and great reputation for quality work.

905-850-7600 and ask for Courtney or Domenic.... Domenic is the service manager and has been through this many times.... good luck

I would echo that. They are a first class organization. Have you talked to Jason at AutoImport here in Ottawa? They might be able to do it as well.

I saw the chains at the bottom of the case. They had a white paint mark on them. I asked him about it and he said it was to mark the position. I'm guessing he must of slipped the cam shafts off .

[cdupont0734]

Hi,

The work on my is progressing. Although slower than I would like. But the dealership is in the mist of expanding so I am being patient. He has done about half the work. He has spent about 20 hours so far. So I expect another 20 or so to finish the job. I was there for an update and took a picture of one side of the block after it was de-coked.

[cdupont0734]

The work is now done. And the car runs beautifully. It cost about 4 grand in parts which included a new flywheel and clutch for about 2 grand. The other parts included a new RMS bearing and IMS upgrade, although the old one were fine it was done as a precaution as they are know to fail, an oil evaporator-separator as the diaphragm as beginning to leak which causes oil to leak and burn through the exhaust, ignition coils as they were cracked, spark plugs, camshaft brake sets, finally two valves along with parts such guides, lifters, seals, gaskets and fluids.

This took 50 hours in labor but it included 7 hours to remove 5 broken exhaust header bolts, along with removing the transmission and engine, removing the heads and rebuilding them, de-coking the pistons and heads and re-seating the valves, checking everything and replacing parts as needed (see above), replace flywheel and clutch bolts as incorrect bolts were previously fitted (the clutch had been replaced before but not at a Porsche dealer) and finally putting everything back.

I am glad I took it to Mark Motors in Ottawa as they were very professional. The work includes a two year warranty on parts and one year on labor. Thanks again Terry for all the work.

Oh, btw in the garage was another engine that had been sitting on a cradle ever since I brought my car in. I was told that it had more serious problem than mine and that the owner had first taken it to another place for repairs but they couldn't get it going again after spending thousands trying to repair it. Terry was going to tackle it next.

[Geldgrube]

The work is now done. And the car runs beautifully. It cost about 4 grand in parts which included a new flywheel and clutch for about 2 grand. The other parts included a new RMS bearing and IMS upgrade, although the old one were fine it was done as a precaution as they are know to fail, an oil evaporator-separator as the diaphragm as beginning to leak which causes oil to leak and burn through the exhaust, ignition coils as they were cracked, spark plugs, camshaft brake sets, finally two valves along with parts such guides, lifters, seals, gaskets and fluids.

This took 50 hours in labor but it included 7 hours to remove 5 broken exhaust header bolts, along with removing the transmission and engine, removing the heads and rebuilding them, de-coking the pistons and heads and re-seating the valves, checking everything and replacing parts as needed (see above), replace flywheel and clutch bolts as incorrect bolts were previously fitted (the clutch had been replaced before but not at a Porsche dealer) and finally putting everything back.

I am glad I took it to Mark Motors in Ottawa as they were very professional. The work includes a two year warranty on parts and one year on labor. Thanks again Terry for all the work.

Oh, btw in the garage was another engine that had been sitting on a cradle ever since I brought my car in. I was told that it had more serious problem than mine and that the owner had first taken it to another place for repairs but they couldn't get it going again after spending thousands trying to repair it. Terry was going to tackle it next.

So, did the 50 hours of labour include dropping the engine, removing the heads, doing all the work you described and then re-installing the engine? It sounds like you dropped in excess of $10k on this rebuild.

Regards,

Ron