'02 996 with 53k need new engine!... I'm devastated

[JR911]

Just bough my first 911 this summer, a '02 Carrera 4S coupe with tiptronic (US). It's a great car, I felt I did a great deal on it (private), and since june I've driven it almost 5000km. So, late august I needed the EU control of the car. The car was spotless, but the tester told me that he felt the engine had a strange sound that he wanted me to check out. I bit worried, I headed out to the most renowned Porsche specialist in Norway, and yes. Conclusion from them, just by listening to the enigine was; replace it!

Driving back home, I started thinking how this could happen? The car has run 53.000km (verified) and just had a Porsche Approved pre-owned check - that I though was an indication that this was a spotless ride. It's never been above the redmark, and although I like to kick-down, it's never been driven hard, and never been above 165 km/h. And, I personally can't hear this sound. Had it been there when I bought it?

I won't conclude on this yet, as my car is beeing placed at Porsche Norway next week for a thourough check, but, as this an "old" car, privately bought, and with a "no value" Porsche test (111), it looks like I'm facing a bill of between 19k Euro (997 replacement engine) and 23k Euro (original 996 engine - 320hp).

IF this is the conclusion, I'm not sure what to do? Spending this much money on a new engine that's going to cost me 1/4 of the cars total value, well, it doesn't seem to be a good investment. What can a "newbee" do in a situation like this? Just lay down and die...?

Edited September 12, 2010 by JR911

[roadsession]

Just bough my first 911 this summer, a '02 Carrera 4S coupe with tiptronic (US). It's a great car, I felt I did a great deal on it (private), and since june I've driven it almost 5000km. So, late august I needed the EU control of the car. The car was spotless, but the tester told me that he felt the engine had a strange sound that he wanted me to check out. I bit worried, I headed out to the most renowned Porsche specialist in Norway, and yes. Conclusion from them, just by listening to the enigine was; replace it!

Driving back home, I started thinking how this could happen? The car has run 53.000km (verified) and just had a Porsche Approved pre-owned check - that I though was an indication that this was a spotless ride. It's never been above the redmark, and although I like to kick-down, it's never been driven hard, and never been above 165 km/h. And, I personally can't hear this sound. Had it been there when I bought it?

I won't conclude on this yet, as my car is beeing placed at Porsche Norway next week for a thourough check, but, as this an "old" car, privately bought, and with a "no value" Porsche test (111), it looks like I'm facing a bill of between 19k Euro (997 replacement engine) and 23k Euro (original 996 engine - 320hp).

IF this is the conclusion, I'm not sure what to do? Spending this much money on a new engine that's going to cost me 1/4 of the cars total value, well, it doesn't seem to be a good investment. What can a "newbee" do in a situation like this? Just lay down and die...?

Ask your Porsche specialist what is the cause of the engine failure.

Depending on the cause, a rebuild may or may not be possible.

Also i didn't know if a 997 engine could be put into a 996?

[Cloudsurfer]

You're not giving us much to work with. Ask your mechanic what the cause of this "failure" is. The fact that you're being told you need a new engine, but you're driving the car around doesn't quite add up.

As to what engine to install if you do need one, you can certainly install a 997 engine into the car, since yours being an 02, already has a 7.8 DME and VarioCam Plus, but why would you have been quoted LESS money to install the 997 engine than 996 replacement?

[JR911]

Sorry guys,

I'm not a mechanic, but I was told that one of the pistonheads is a a bit "loose"... This causes it to damage the cylinder walls, and the repair will cost more than a replacement. The specialist told me that this was something that would happen on a percentage of 996's. And in most cases on the ones that has the tiptronic transmission. I though this issue was solved on the later 996 (->2002), but obviously not.

As for the cost of a 996 vs 997, I don't know, but that's what the specialist told me...

[CabC2]

You do not have to spend that much money, I would not go through a porsche mechanic. But first, yes, find out the cause. If it is a cracked header, you can get away for about $2k including installation. (you can get a refurbishe header here in USA in Costa Mesa. I can find the address/site). If you have a cracked cilynder sleeve (like it happened to me) yes you are looking at more money as the whole engine needs to come apart. You are basically looking at 70% of the bill for hourly labor. Thus, do not get it fixed through a dealer as their rates are much higher.

Porsche has lowered the price of their refurbished engines substantially. Installing an engine is around 2k only, in labor.

[CabC2]

Until they do open the engine apart, they cannot KNOW what is going on. Checking it out is not too much money.

Loose piston head does not make a lot of sense. These cars have issues with either heads, or cylinder sleeves.

[JR911]

CabC2; funny that I'm traveling over to the US and LA on Thursday. Though I even might check out some Porsche Shops while over there (for complete enigins). In LA from monday 20th...

Edited September 12, 2010 by JR911

[Yash]

Porsche has lowered the price of their refurbished engines substantially. Installing an engine is around 2k only, in labor.

What is the ball park price of a refurbished engine (eg for 996 3.4 L)and that of a new engine from Porsche.

Thanks..

[Cloudsurfer]

Porsche has actually upped the cost of their replacement engines, not lowered them. They were "cheap" for a while, but now they have gone up considerably, and sooner or later there will be no M96/M97 support. You're likely looking at $10,000 to $14,000 for a new engine, whether 3.6 or 3.8. Rebuild costs vary greatly, depending upon the level of rebuild. These engines are VERY labor intensive to build, and require some very odd tools, so there's really no way to do it cheap.

Now, saying that a "pistonhead" is loose makes absolutely no sense. Internal combustion engines have cylinders, with pistons moving up and down inside of them, and a cylinder head that mounts to the top of the cylinder. These engines do have issues with cylinder heads cracking, but that does NOT involve replacing the whole engine. These also have failures of the cylinder walls, but if that was the case, you would not be driving the car still. So, something here does NOT add up at all.

It is worth mentioning, that until you find out what exactly is going on here, that driving the car is not doing it any favors, as a problem that is allowed to get potentially worse may result in the actual damage being far greater.

I would find an independent specialist, who has dealt with the M96 engine in a greater depth than changing the spark plugs, and try to find out what exactly is the cause of whatever is going on.

[JR911]

I'm leaving it at Porsche for a closer look. I'm going to give them a "chanse" before I head out of the country for a repair. Norway is not the place to repair a Porsche if it requires a new engine. Way to expensive....

But the independant specialist (best in Norway they say) told me that I could drive the car as usual. There is no crack in the pistonhead, it's just loose, due to "connection between the shaftand the piston isn't tight anymor (bad english I know, lack of better words). And, as I feel it, it is not sounding strange, it runs well, so what am I to do? Oh yes, head over to the US for some fun, before I get back to the bad news ;)

[Dharn55]

Remember that if you run out of gas most Porsche dealers standard answer will be that you need a new engine. When I had my intermix every dealer and mechanic I talked to said "new Engine." Well I fixed in myself (actually sent the head to Costa Mesa to fix a crack in it) and now have over 6,000 miles on the fix. Cost, $500 for the head fix, another $800+ in misc parts and fluid, and my labor time. And you can get a new head for about $3,000 (that was last year when I checked).

You need to find out what they mean by piston head. Is that a cylinder head, and what does loose mean?

Not sure about custom fees, etc., but for the prices you are quoting you could ship the engine to Jake Raby at Flat6 and have him rebuild in with all the bells and whistles.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Dharn55

[CabC2]

CabC2; funny that I'm traveling over to the US and LA on Thursday. Though I even might check out some Porsche Shops while over there (for complete enigins). In LA from monday 20th...

I had my engine in my 99 tip c2 rebuilt half a year ago. local. great guy. if you want, we could meet and i give you a hand walkign you around.

[CabC2]

My rebuild costed me $8k. Talk to Suncoast (sponsor in this forum I believe) I also believe engines went down very recently (they were up to $13k half a year ago).

Porsche has lowered the price of their refurbished engines substantially. Installing an engine is around 2k only, in labor.

What is the ball park price of a refurbished engine (eg for 996 3.4 L)and that of a new engine from Porsche.

Thanks..

You can get a rebuilt as cheap as 6k... but who knows what you are getting into. LA Dismantlers sells them, for example. I went with a rebuild from a reputable indy and paid just a hair more. Looking at the bill, most of the cost is labor, and about 1/3 in parts if I remember correctly.

[Loren]

Suncoast is NOT a sponsor here.

Sunset Imports (in Portland Oregon) is a contributing supporter of this site.

[CabC2]

Sorry about mistake. I guess I got names confused.

[Cloudsurfer]

My rebuild costed me $8k. Talk to Suncoast (sponsor in this forum I believe) I also believe engines went down very recently (they were up to $13k half a year ago).

Porsche has lowered the price of their refurbished engines substantially. Installing an engine is around 2k only, in labor.

What is the ball park price of a refurbished engine (eg for 996 3.4 L)and that of a new engine from Porsche.

Thanks..

You can get a rebuilt as cheap as 6k... but who knows what you are getting into. LA Dismantlers sells them, for example. I went with a rebuild from a reputable indy and paid just a hair more. Looking at the bill, most of the cost is labor, and about 1/3 in parts if I remember correctly.

$3000 to $5000 is probably fair for labor on a rebuild of one of these. If yours comes apart, I wouldn't even consider doing it without having the IMS shaft upgraded by LN. Other than that, new bearings, seals, etc add up to more than you'd think. What's unfortunate, and ridiculous, is that Porsche has priced new piston rings at virtually $200 PER PISTON, so you're really better off just calling JE and ordering a piston set.

When I had mine apart, I had LN sleeve the case halves thus making a 3.6 into a 3.8.

Supposedly, there is now a way to wind up with a 4.0, but I'm not sure who is doing this and how they're getting the extra 200cc.

[JR911]

Gents,

Just back from Porsche workshop, and they have looked at the engine, and the verdict is ready. There are some small scratches on the inside of sylinder 6. That's whats causing the "bad" engine sound. They can not tell me how this has happened, but an engine replacement at Porsche will cost me $ 30.000...

What am I to do?

Edited September 27, 2010 by JR911

[rb101]

You can get the block re-sleeved. LN Engineering in the US (http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html) and also Autofarm in the UK (http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/silsleeve_tech)

[Dharn55]

Not sure about pricing in Norway, but in the states you can by 2002 996's for $30,000. If the cylinder walls are scratched it may be a broken piston ring.

[CabC2]

If you need to replace/rebuild engine, you might start thinking about shipping it to autofarm which is in the UK as mentioned. I do not know the prices, but 30k for an engine seems excesive and way abov what you would spend elsewhere.

[torontoworker]

Considering the costs in Norway - wouldn't it be cheaper to ship the whole car to Autofarm in the UK and have them work on it. I know a guy in Norway who works for Shell and paid to have his 930 sent via flatbed across the Ferry to the UK. From what I understand the cost of living is way higher in Norway then the UK and perhaps there will be no dudy on the 'repair' of a car that is being re-exported back out of the UK after repair as well as no VAT for non-resident?? You'll have to check with a broker to find out for sure but it *looks* like it is possible to get relielf on the VAT.

Autofarm charges 9834.00 (Pounds) for an installed 3.6 (91538.00 Nor Kroner or $15533.00USD) or 8778.00 (pounds) for a 3.4

You could either get a rebuild or repair after shipping it over and then drive it home. Sharpen your pencils and figure out what is best!

[Dharn55]

Here is the engine you need. Great Price of a factory engine. Don't know what is involved in shipping it to Norway but it seems it would have to be less than what you have been quoted for an engine there.

Link to add on Rennlist

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/for-sale-ads-member-to-member-classifieds/593726-3-6-liter-911-engine-for-2006-2008-997-carrera.html

Same engine on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-3-6-Liter-911-Engine-2006-2008-997-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33611e1898QQitemZ220672694424QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[SA321]

will it go into 996 c4s from 2003?

[Dharn55]

Should fit any 3.6 VarioCamPlus car, but the engine may be US spec vs. ROW, not sure about that.

[DaveCarrera4S]

wonder how this ever turned out?

DC4S