Amp selection for stereo upgarde

[Christolei]

I am planning to upgrade my factory stereo, I have a 2004 Porsche 911 carrera 4S convertible. I already purchased:

- 2 sets of Polk Audio SR5250 Component speakers for the front & rear

- 1 set of Polk Audio SR6500 Component speakers for the doors

- 1 pair of 10" Digital Designs 2510 subwoofers

- 1 pair of 10" JL Audio 10W7 subwoofers

I will only use one pair of subwoofers, but have not decided on the one.

I will use Pioneer AVIC-X920BT as Head Unit

I am having a hard time selecting an amp to run my set up, please help by making suggestions.

I considered the Cadence ZRS-C8 because it's a 5 channel with lots of power and I wouldn't have to run 2 amps, and it only cost $449, I also considered 1 Alpine 4.150 + 1 Alpine 2.150 for the components and getting either a JL or DD amp for the subs.

I'll be buying the amps used and would like to spend around $500

Please advise

Thx

[Dharn55]

Couple of things you should know.

You are going to be hard pressed to fit the SR5250 speakers in the dash/front and the rear. These are set up for 4" mids and separate tweeters. I used Focal 100KP's in the front, with the crossovers located in the trunk, which required running new wiring to this location (the OEM speakers have one set of wires to them with resistors as filters) and a set of Focal 100 Slimlines (coaxials) in the rear so I could use the existing one set of wires to each rear locations. I don't know how you could fit a 5.25" speaker in the dash and rear. I think that is actually bigger than the grill and holes in the dash and trim panel in the rear. You might want to rethink this one.

The doors are set up for 5.25" sub-woofers. The wiring to these locations are set for subs on the OEM amp/wiring. I used Focal 5WS, I think the currently equivalent is a Focal 13KS, both 5.25." There are folks that have fit 6" speakers in the door locations but it take some modification of the enclosures in the doors and I think they "float" them on the surface of the door and enclosure, This can certainly be done. You need to think through how you are going to use these speakers, pair them with the fronts, or the rears?, watch the impedance if you do.

The 10" subs will give you way more base than any sub you could fit in the doors, 5.25" or 6." You will need some sort of an enclosure for these, what are your plans? I hope our are not going to go to "ghetto" with the subs, bothers the heck out of me when a car pulls of next to mine and my whole car is shaking from the others subs, but that is just me.

I used a JL Audio E6450 amp, 6 channels, with two for the front, two for the rears, and a blended set for the subs in the doors. The JL is set up for this.

Still using the OEM head unit and the balance and fader on it works. Ran some RCA cable (two sets) from the head unit to the amp, with an adapter from Becker. Used the new wring I ran to the fronts, and spliced into the existing harness at the old amp location for the doors and rears.

So the biggest challenge you are facing is the fronts and rears, I just don't think you can fit 5.25" at these locations without a lot of cutting and custom work.

Good luck!

[Christolei]

The components where chosen with the help of a custom install shop and after some research on the internet, we found numerous install with the 5.25" in both the dash and the rear. We even found some with 5X7 and bigger in the rear. We intend to run new sets of wires for all speakers and do a whole new custom installation, we'll even install radar in the bumper, rear view camera...

For the subs, we intend to build custom enclosures that fit the foot wells as well as blend in with the car decor.

Thanks for your input.

[Dharn55]

Take lots of pictures. I am curious to see how you fit the 5.25" speakers in the front and rear, especially in the dash. Seems like a lot of work for a marginal improvement over the quality of sound you can get from a good 4" mid versus a 5.25" mid. With the base it is a whole different story.

Good Luck on the project.

[Christolei]

Will review speaker selection again and consider the 4" if the 5.25" becomes an issue.

With the current speakers that I have any suggestions with respect to the amps?

Thx

[Dharn55]

I got my JL Audio amp off eBay for a good price, but that was 3-4 years ago I think. The JL amp is a good amp, 450 watts of power. With the six channels you have one set for the fronts, one set for the rear (which many say are really only "infill") and a blended set for the subs. If you are going to have mids/tweets in the front rear and doors I am not sure how you would split them up. I got a couple of books at the library on building car stereos that was quite helpful. I do know that is you decided to run two sets of one set of channels it effects the impedance, ether doubles it or half it. Maybe you need more than one amp for this set up. There are certainly lots of cars that have 10-12 speakers in the system so there has to be a way to do it.

[goldduster]

I have the same car and went with the Alpine PDX-5. It fits on the little shelf in the trunk like it was made for it. I went with the AVIC-700bt, (got it off ebay, a refurb - after all these years of having good luck with refurbs, it caught up to me) kept the bose speakers. Am very happy with the results, except for the head unit (went kaput in a week).

[Christolei]

I have the same car and went with the Alpine PDX-5. It fits on the little shelf in the trunk like it was made for it. I went with the AVIC-700bt, (got it off ebay, a refurb - after all these years of having good luck with refurbs, it caught up to me) kept the bose speakers. Am very happy with the results, except for the head unit (went kaput in a week).

Sorry about your head unit, did you use subs? if yes, what size and how many? where did you place them? How much better was the sound with the same speakers and a different amp?

[hi8ha]

Dharn55:

You mentioned a set of speakers that the OEM wires needs to be replaced due to a filter/resistor; are those the front or door speakers? I replaced the dash speakers and used the OEM wire, the sound is not like is filtered. Contrary to the doors speakers, 5.25 Polks, no matter how high the treble is the sound is muffled. Always suspected the door speakers had some sort of filter but never been able to find it, not even on the wiring diagram.

[jimmy3530]

Christolei:

I'm also in the Maryland/DC area and am thinking of doing a similar mod to my 2000 996 C4. I've posted before that I think that the sound in these cars is terrible. The previous owner installed a Kenwood amp in my car up front in the trunk and a Kicker 8" sub and another Fosgate amp in a professionally made enclosure which I've removed since I prefer having more storage space.

I'm thinking of first swaping out the speakers in the front, doors and rear and then maybe changing the head unit.

Who do you recommend using in the Maryland area? I'd like to do the speaker work myself but i think i need a professional installer to figure out how this amp is wiring in since I the stock amp is still in car as well and am not sure how its all connected.

I'm not looking for a superior sound system but really just decent sound and maybe a better head unit that offers nav and a decent CD/MP3 player. Nothing fancy at all. The Pioneer AVHP3200 is what I'm looking at now. It's selling on Amazon for <$400. Thoughts?

Thanks

[Christolei]

Christolei:

I'm also in the Maryland/DC area and am thinking of doing a similar mod to my 2000 996 C4. I've posted before that I think that the sound in these cars is terrible. The previous owner installed a Kenwood amp in my car up front in the trunk and a Kicker 8" sub and another Fosgate amp in a professionally made enclosure which I've removed since I prefer having more storage space.

I'm thinking of first swaping out the speakers in the front, doors and rear and then maybe changing the head unit.

Who do you recommend using in the Maryland area? I'd like to do the speaker work myself but i think i need a professional installer to figure out how this amp is wiring in since I the stock amp is still in car as well and am not sure how its all connected.

I'm not looking for a superior sound system but really just decent sound and maybe a better head unit that offers nav and a decent CD/MP3 player. Nothing fancy at all. The Pioneer AVHP3200 is what I'm looking at now. It's selling on Amazon for <$400. Thoughts?

Thanks

Where in the DMV are you? Like you I use the small storage space every now and then, luckily we can have 1 or 2 subs installed in other places without loosing that space. Swapping the speakers is not a bad idea, you wanna make sure the new speakers will match well with the amp. As for the choice of speakers, you want to determine what price point works for you, AND YES I AGREE WITH YOU THE SOUND IN THESE CARS IS TERRIBLE (I am not trying to stir a new debate here). As for the the Pioneer AVH P3200 it's only a Nav ready model, you probably want to look at one with built in nav...

[Dharn55]

hi8ha

The dash and rear speakers are coaxial, where the signal is sent over one set of wires and the splitting of the frequencies is done at the speakers themselves. I am not an electrical engineer, but I think this is done with resistors. I know that when I replaced my dash and rear speakers there were resistors on the wires that ran from the mids to the tweeters so that the low frequency signals did not go to the tweeters. For my dash I used Focal 100KP's, which have separate crossovers for each speaker. I located these in the trunk and ran tow sets of wires to each location on the dash, one for the mids and one for the tweeters. For the rears I used Focal 100 Slimlines, which are coaxial, so the existing OEM wires were usable (kind of small gauge but I used them).

What did you use in your doors? Remember that these are subs, and only receive the low frequency signals from the OEM amp. I first used some Focal mids, and the sound/bass was not good. I switched to Focal 5WS, a true sub, and the bass is much better.

[jimmy3530]

I live just outside of DC (Bethesda area). Thanks for the tip on the 3200...didn't catch that. The 920BT is a little steep but could be an option. The current NAV/Cassette/CDC-3 player is as I said terrible or lets just say substandard in my opinion. I'm looking to straighten things out for the least cost. And I'd welcome a little cubby shelf in place of the NAV disc reader.

Dharn55, I have a Millenium edition with the "upgraded" sound system (which includes NAV). I believe the head unit is what is referred to as double DIN. Can you confirm that the door speakers are actually subs? I would have thought that the rear speakers are subs and that the door and the dash speakers are just regular ones.

Thanks again.

[Dharn55]

jimmy3530 -

The dash and rear speakers are mids and tweeters. I think all cars that have door speakers (cars with the HiFi or Bose option) had subs in the doors. I know this is the case with the HiFi option, but can't be sure on the Bose option.

[Dharn55]

OK, looked at the wiring diagram for the Bose setup and it shows a subwoofer, so this would be the bass channel(s). So maybe with the Bose setup the doors are not subs. Can't really tell from the wiring diagram.

[iamtheari]

For those of you replacing the Cassette/Nav system (honestly, what was the rationale behind offering a navigation system with a tape deck?), I am looking at a 996 that has that option and am curious if you've found any fit problems getting an aftermarket head unit in place. It sounds like you just drop in a double-DIN unit and you're set as far as fit goes, but are there any gotchas a guy should be aware of?

[jimmy3530]

iamtheari:

Good question. I am assuming that replacing the head unit with a double-DIN should be relatively straightforward, that is it would be evident how the power is connected, antenna, NAV transponder, etc. I would imagine that the connectors to the actual unit would be different.

Anyone out there know of some potential pitfalls?

[whall]

There is considerable information on RennTech to help install double DIN nav systems.

If you have a pre-MY03 car, Carrera or Boxster, take a look at, as a start:

If you have an MY03 or later car, Carrera or Boxster, takea look at, as a start:

or:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14274&hl=ignition+switch+replacement

The use of the Media Oriented System Transport (MOST) bus started with MY03 Carreras and Boxsters. The MOST bus ties together the radio/(optional)PCM, the (optional) amplifier, the (optional) CD changer and the (optional) telephone by a fiber optic cable. As far as I know, there is no way yet to integrate an aftermarket radio, of any kind, into the fiber optic system.

The threads above refer to the installation of units that are probably not readily available now, having been superceded by newer models. But the methodology should be essentially the same.

Some other installation variables are whether your individual car has a standard, upgraded Harmon (M490), or Bose system and CD changer. Now, throw in whether or not you want a movie theater capable sound system with multiple amplifiers and speakers or are willing to pretty much use the configuration of equipment already in the car and you have a multitude of engineering problems.

I have installed an AVIC-Z3 in a MY02 Targa with Bose system and a AVIC-Z110BT in a MY03 Boxster with M490 Harmon sysyem. Because the Targa was pre-MOST, I was able to integrate the nav with the Bose amplifier and speakers. Just getting rid of the CDR-220 made a world of difference in sound quality. The MOST bus equipped MY03 Boxster precluded my use of the Harmon amplifier. So I removed the amplifier from the car and wired the output of the -Z110BT directly to the existing speakers. Again, the quality of the sound is much, much better than the original CDR-23/Harmon amplifier setup. Of course, as always, YMMV.

Bill

[hi8ha]

hi8ha

The dash and rear speakers are coaxial, where the signal is sent over one set of wires and the splitting of the frequencies is done at the speakers themselves. I am not an electrical engineer, but I think this is done with resistors. I know that when I replaced my dash and rear speakers there were resistors on the wires that ran from the mids to the tweeters so that the low frequency signals did not go to the tweeters. For my dash I used Focal 100KP's, which have separate crossovers for each speaker. I located these in the trunk and ran tow sets of wires to each location on the dash, one for the mids and one for the tweeters. For the rears I used Focal 100 Slimlines, which are coaxial, so the existing OEM wires were usable (kind of small gauge but I used them).

What did you use in your doors? Remember that these are subs, and only receive the low frequency signals from the OEM amp. I first used some Focal mids, and the sound/bass was not good. I switched to Focal 5WS, a true sub, and the bass is much better.

I do know that, on the front and rear speakers, a capacitor is used between the mids and tweeter, to filter/prevent the low frequencies to the teweeter. The speakers on the doors are 5.25 Polks, tha amp is not the OEM but a Hollywood Labs.