996TT Buying Advice Please

[fgaston]

Hi:

Have 02 C4 Cab in Guards Red with 62K and have the itch for Turbo. Have couple of questions:

1. Know it's subjective but drawn to lines of coupe but wonder if I'll miss the Cab. Anyone made the transition and regretted?

2. Have my eyes on a 02 Polar Silver with 14K miles that is showroom condition for $55K firm. Does that seem fair. Being offered $27K for my C4, which is pretty optioned, and that seems a tad low but that's trade in & I don't want to deal with private sale. How accurate is Kelley Blue Book on Porsches?

3. Does mileage trump year? i.e. all things being equal would you take 02 with 14K miles vs. 04 with 30K miles? Just don't know whether to lean towards later model car which will cost me quite a bit more.

Many thanks, Fred

Edited July 18, 2010 by fgaston

[Dus10R]

Hi:

Have 02 C4 Cab in Guards Red with 62K and have the itch for Turbo. Have couple of questions:

1. Know it's subjective but drawn to lines of coupe but wonder if I'll miss the Cab. Anyone made the transition and regretted?

2. Have my eyes on a 02 Polar Silver with 14K miles that is showroom condition for $55K firm. Does that seem fair. Being offered $27K for my C4, which is pretty optioned, and that seems a tad low but that's trade in & I don't want to deal with private sale. How accurate is Kelley Blue Book on Porsches?

3. Does mileage trump year? i.e. all things being equal would you take 02 with 14K miles vs. 04 with 30K miles? Just don't know whether to lean towards later model car which will cost me quite a bit more.

Many thanks, Fred

Can't help with you #1, I'm a hardcore coupe guy...

# 2. Dealers don't really use Kelly Blue Book.. they're more likely to use MMR which is a dealer only auction valuation tool. It tells them what specific cars are bought for by other dealers, nationwide (wholesale price). It's an up to the week tool too, it's values change with the market results.

So according to MMR your C4 with 62K miles is higher mileage than avg. So from Jul 19th thru July 26th it's saying that on avg. dealers are paying (it has three grade levels) Above: Wholesale $35,8000 Retail: $44,500 Average: Wholesale $30,100 Retail: $37,600 Below: Wholesale: $24,300 Retail: $30,700 ("Above" are cars with usually low miles and they've sold for above the "Average" price, "Below" are cars with higher miles that have sold below the "Average" price.)

Here's the last 6 wholesale transactions

Date Auction Sale Type Price Odometer Cond Color Eng Trans

09/25/09 NEVADA Lease $36,900 46,551 Avg YELLOW 6G 6

11/04/09 BAY CITI Regular $40,000 33,990 Avg BLACK 6G A

11/24/09 LAUD/MIA Regular $38,000 22,286 Avg SILVER 6G 6

03/04/10 MANHEIM Regular $47,000 22,411 Above WHITE 6G 6

03/09/10 FAAO Lease $27,100 69,048 Below BLACK 6G 6

05/10/10 MANHEIM Lease $42,100 19,302 Above GRAY 6G A

As far as the Turbo's go... it's strange. Sometimes the C4's are selling for as much as the Turbo's do, wholesale.

Here's MMR on the 2002 Turbo.

For Week Ending Jul 14

Above Average Below May 2010 Jan 2010 Jul 2009

Sale Price $36,407 $30,500 $24,593 $34,850 $37,000 $32,750

Odometer 42,844 61,557 80,270 55,424 50,542 76,475

Total Sold All 6

Jul 19 - Jul 26 2010

Above Average Below Aug 2010 Jul 2011

Auction $47,300 $43,400 $39,500 $43,300 $42,100

Est. Retail $63,000 $53,800 $44,800 $53,700 $50,700

Date Auction Sale Type Price Odometer Cond Color Eng Trans

07/01/10 RIVRSIDE Lease $30,500 61,557 Below BLACK 6G A

05/06/10 GTR TMPA Regular $37,500 48,021 Avg SILVER 6G A

05/05/10 W PALM Regular $32,200 62,827 Avg WHITE 6G A

04/15/10 NEVADA Regular $39,000 35,659 Avg YELLOW 6G A

04/01/10 MANHEIM Regular $39,500 35,323 Avg SILVER 6G A

03/25/10 RIVRSIDE Regular $39,500 42,322 Avg SILVER 6G M

Here's the 2004 Turbo's MMR

For Week Ending Jul 14

Above Average Below May 2010 Jan 2010 Jul 2009

Sale Price $48,554 $43,500 $38,446 $0 $0 $0

Odometer 11,639 23,277 34,916 0 0 0

Total Sold All 1

Jul 19 - Jul 26 2010

Above Average Below Aug 2010 Jul 2011

Auction $45,400 $42,100 $38,800 $41,900 $37,500

Est. Retail $56,300 $51,900 $47,500 $51,600 $45,800

Date Auction Sale Type Price Odometer Cond Color Eng Trans

06/23/10 SEATTLE Lease $43,500 23,277 Avg GRAY 6GT 6

05/04/10 RIVRSIDE Regular $25,000 64,522 Below GRAY 6G A

04/20/10 BIG H Regular $40,000 44,962 Avg GRAY 6G A

03/30/10 FAAO Regular $39,900 43,888 Avg SILVER 6G A

11/19/09 RIVRSIDE Lease $48,000 41,265 Above BLACK 6G 6

10/22/09 RIVRSIDE Lease $49,000 25,318 Above BLACK 6G 6

Something else to think about.. sometimes low mileage sounds good in theory but if the car hasn't been driven that often in 8 years you could run into some issues if you plan on driving it a lot. Cars don't like to sit they like to be driven, if they sit too long parts like, hoses, gaskets, etc start to dry out. So you may have some small issues with a low mileage older car.

So if I were you, I'd try to squeeze a little more out of the price they want to give you for your car, say $29K if it's optioned nicely and in great shape. Stick with your guns, tell them you're not even interested in any car on their lot until they agree to a price you want for yours and then make them put it in writing.

$55K for the '02 Turbo seems okay... the "Est Retail" price that is listed above isn't so realistic these days. The dealers are lucky if they can get $3K to $5K above what they paid so figure you can probably come off their asking price by a grand. Also consider that they're paying as much or more for lower mileage examples of your C4 Cab than they are for normal mileage examples of Turbo's.

Turbo's are a stellar deal right now...consider the window stickers on most were north of $120K.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Dus10R

[fgaston]

Many thanks Dus10R for the useful information and suggestions. Regards, Fred

[996CabMan]

Fred- I have a '03-C2 cab and a '03-TT coupe and I can tell you they are completely different automobiles and as a result I cannot let either one of them go. I love the smooth performance and open air of the Cab (nothing like a Cab!), but the TT is a rocketship and really attracts attention! I know it's not financially prudent to keep both, but I just cannot pick which one I love best!

[fgaston]

Thanks for responding and I feel your "pain" and completely understand your dilemma! There is no question in my mind the coupe is more of a looker, with the classic lines, but when you are in the Cab on a nice day, there is nothing like it. I'm not a big fan of the look of the 911 with the soft top up in any color combo, but when you factor in the open air experience of the Cab, I can rationalize it in place of the more beautiful coupe. Is the coupe a more beautiful overall car, IMHO, and would it give me greater satisfaction while looking at the car, absolutely no question, but while driving it...might be different answer.....

Since you have both the non turbo & turbo, what are your thoughts there? Money being no object would you replace the C2 Cab with a TT Cab, or is it not as big a deal having the turbo in the Cab? There is no question when I drove the turbo, the extra hp was intoxicating, but interestingly I don't feel my 320hp C4 Cab is underpowered, as I drive in a pretty mellow way and just enjoy the "experience".

My other option instead of parting with $30K right now is to put a little money into my car in terms of aftermarket additions. What is bothering me though, and making me lean more towards replacement are following factors:

1. higher mileage. I have 62K now. Not a huge amount from reliability standards, but enough to make people think twice on resale.
2. Car has some exotic wood trim which looks great, but is delaminating in almost all spots due to sun exposure. While can probably be glued back down, it's annoying and if the pieces need to be replaced, the cost is outrageous (I was quoted $500 by very fair auto body place for EACH strip up on dashboard!). It's the little things on an older car that start to get annoying and dull the experience you want every time you get in the car. Takes $ and time to keep it "perfect", and don't know whether to go lower mileage, newer car, or put money in mine (obviously latter is less costly).
3. Last factor is just getting that itch for different toy every 3 years or so. I'm thinking though where do you go if you get bored with turbo? LOL.

Best, Fred

[996CabMan]

Fred-

Would I replace the C2 Cab with a TT Cab and drop down to one Pcar??? That's a great question! I think the answer would be yes if I could find the right car (I'm picky).

Here's my dilemma (if you can call it that)... I am a Cab guy and the smooth performance of the 996 is very satisfying but I prefer the widebody lines.

I love the TT, but make no mistake, the TT is not a car for the faint of heart. It's a blast to drive but it's very difficult to keep it at/around the speed limit. (it might be just me, but the TT brings out something primal in me!). I'm sure there will be some DE events in my future to help control my desires and keep me from being a frequent visitor in traffic court. In terms of engines, the TT motor is rock solid and that is very important to me as I like to keep/drive my cars vs. look at them, so something for you to think about there.

Until I reach closure on this personally, I just enjoy both of them! If you have a widebody C4 Cab, you might already have a great compromise vehicle there, so enjoy her!

good luck!

[fgaston]

996CabMan-thanks for your reply! Funny you should mention that, as I am considering 997 C4S, which would give me that wider profile, or even 997 C2S, over TT Coupe at least. Had delusions last night of holding onto mine & buying TT Coupe, but my wife would kill me!

I can't find many TT Cabs on the market at all, and like you I am picky. This means none are local & I don't have time to hop on planes to IL & FL. Although I've bought sight unseen would prefer not to with TT. Have concluded I want to stay with Cab, but TT is not absolute requirement (I'm sure power can become addictive, but the 997S is no slouch & if chipped would be 380 vs. 420). If you already have P car, the other issue is trade-in vs. hassle of private sale, and as mentioned in earlier post, most dealers can't even go book trade-in. So when I weigh all the criteria, might be better off "settling" on 997 S or 4S Cab in lieu of having to patiently search for TT Cab over next couple of months.

Best, Fred

Edited July 24, 2010 by fgaston

[Sunnyside]

Fred,

Its obvious you love your Cab, why not keep it until you find a Turbo Cab. If your not too bothered about Power and upgrades why worry. You are in a great position. You have no issues with your ride and you love it. There's your answer.

All the best with whatever you decide.

Frank.

[OscarAH1W]

I traded in my 2001 C4 Cab on a 2004 Turbo Cab. I blue-booked my C4 and it came up with 27K trade in and the car had around 39K miles. I only got 25K from the Dealer. I wasn't happy about it, but the Turbo Cab only had 20,600 miles on it and had the X50 Powerkit. They wanted $59,800 and it Blue-booked (dealer retail) at 75K. I basically asked myself if the newer car was worth 2K more, which I felt it was. The biggest deal when trading in, from my perspective, is not what you actually get for the car, it is the price difference between yours and the new car. Many times, dealers will have more negotiating room on the car on their lot, so you can make up the difference on trade-in value with the sales price. I am glad I made the trade, and with the low mileage I was able to purchase the Platinum service contract (100$ deductible) from the local Porsche dealer for around 4K. The difference in cars is other-worldly and the power is addictive. That said, 55K seems a little high for a coupe. I am a big fan of the convertible and they can be had for similar money. The sticker on mine was 152,600 so deals are out there. I wouldn't go to a 997 C4S either; purely my opinion, but the extra width of the 997 looks strange from behind. The graceful slope from the roofline to the rear fender of the 996 is harsh and disproportionate on the 997; more so without the fixed wing of the turbo/GT3. The deal sealer for me was looking at a 997 C4S Cab CPO car on the Porsche lot when I picked mine up from an oil change... 20 grand more for a lot less car. No contest. Have fun with the process and wait for the right car; it's out there and you'll know when you see it. Cheers!