Massive Oil Leak - Please Help.....!

[mdamborg]

Hi guys....!

Haven't got much sleep last night, as my 996 (gen II - 3,6 - 2002 - manual transmission) had a break down when I was heading back from the office. :(

It sounded like a hose being cut or something like that...I immediately stopped the car, and saw oil pouring out (not just dripping....!). The oil pressure on the car was okay when it was turned off - accordingly the engine sounded okay....

It seems like the leak is between the engine and transmission under the car - I have heard a lot of people talk about RMS leaks, but do any of you guys have any experience with major leaks as described relating to RMS? I am quite nervous, as I do fear some sort of major repair on the car?! The car has a full service history at authorized Porsche and has only 70.000 kilometers on the clock :(

Any comments/experience with similar problems would be appreciated!

Best regards,

Damborg

[Loren]

You need to find where it is coming from - but most likely are RMS or IMS let go.

[mdamborg]

You need to find where it is coming from - but most likely are RMS or IMS let go.

Hi Loren,

Thank you for your quick reply - as usual..!:notworthy:

Do you know if a RMS or IMS leek also can be as heavy as described? (quite a massive amount of oil poured out).

I was told by the local Porsche guys, that the 3,6 motor is quite reliable and they haven't done that many engine replacements...... my extra warranty "Porsche Approved" has just ended :(

Regards,

Damborg

[Richard Hamilton]

I have heard of a couple of cases where a core plug from an oil gallery has popped out, causing a massive oil leak. RMS or IMS tend to weep - unusual for one of them to blow out and gush oil, but possible. Like Loren says - you need to find out where it is coming from, and don't run it until you do!

[Richard Hamilton]

Just found this - http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14015-major-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__69905

[mdamborg]

Just found this - http://www.renntech....dpost__p__69905

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your reply.

My worst nightmare is that something in the engine has broken :o (I'm not a mechanic) - but do hope that the matter can be fixed at a reasonable cost...!

As mentioned the car has only 70.000 km on the clock and had a service check performed at Porsche at 63.000 (the car has never been used for track days etc.), so I really wonder why this massive breakdown suddenly appears?! :(

Regards,

[PTEC]

Sorry to say it but usually a large stream of oil pouring out from between the engine and transmission usually means the stud on the intermediate shaft just snapped. Sometimes the nut will lodge itself in a spot after it breaks and falls loose so you won't have any crazy death rattle sounds.

Keep us informed.

[mdamborg]

Sorry to say it but usually a large stream of oil pouring out from between the engine and transmission usually means the stud on the intermediate shaft just snapped. Sometimes the nut will lodge itself in a spot after it breaks and falls loose so you won't have any crazy death rattle sounds.

Keep us informed.

My worst fear became a fact..... just received information from my local Porsche shop..BAD NEWS.. the IMS bearing has failed and needs to be replaced ...!!!!

I was told that this will include a complete disassembly of the engine :(

Anyone having experience with this or the retrofit options that are available on the market? Isn't it possible to change the bearing without a complete disassembly of the engine???!! :help:

Regards,

Damborg

[Provostmotorsports]

Sorry to say it but usually a large stream of oil pouring out from between the engine and transmission usually means the stud on the intermediate shaft just snapped. Sometimes the nut will lodge itself in a spot after it breaks and falls loose so you won't have any crazy death rattle sounds.

Keep us informed.

My worst fear became a fact..... just received information from my local Porsche shop..BAD NEWS.. the IMS bearing has failed and needs to be replaced ...!!!!

I was told that this will include a complete disassembly of the engine :(

Anyone having experience with this or the retrofit options that are available on the market? Isn't it possible to change the bearing without a complete disassembly of the engine???!! :help:

Regards,

Damborg

You can pull the bearing only before it fails. After it has exploded you can not. I have tryed several times and failed as the end of the shaft is to far damaged to get it to move.Plus, everyone I have done that has broken sent metal all threw the engine. You would want a tear down for a good cleaning,Besides if small pieces of metal get jammed in the scavage pumps you will be rebuilding anyway with lots more parts.

[PTEC]

Yep. By the time the bearing fails you've got metal bits that at the very least has been picked up by the scavenge pumps and then sent through the mail oil pump on its way to the filter. You want a full tear down in order to fully clean all the debris out of the engine.

[mdamborg]

:( :( :( :(

Do any of you guys know if Porsche recognizes this a "factory error" on these engines?

Regards,

Damborg

[txhokie4life]

:( :( :( :(

Do any of you guys know if Porsche recognizes this a "factory error" on these engines?

Regards,

Damborg

You can remove the IMS without the bolt -- it is not easy but it can be done.

Do everything as if you are going to do an IMSR, then

1) There is a special tool that can be had for about $90 that hooks onto the old style puller that LNE used

to distribute -- I think the old one as a K 22-1 and you want a K 21-2 or 21-4 from Kukuu.

2) If that doesn't work -- you can try to weld onto the existing bearing assembly and pull from there.

3) if that causes the assembly to disintegrate, you can still save yourself by cutting out the outer assembly

you will have to clean out all the debris, consider blocking any place the debris could fall into while you are doing the work.

(We have successfully done this BTW)

I would check in the oil filter to see if you have any metal shavings. If you don't than the bolt failure may not have

fallen into the engine, and/or it didn't cause any debris.

To be safe I would short cycle the oil after startup -- maybe run it for 20 minutes than dump the oil and check the filter.

You can use regular oil for this -- you are just trying to flush the system.

Now something could be in a spot that hasn't caused damage and you get unlucky and now you do this

and it lodges itself catastrophically. You're slightly worse off than if you disassemble now.

However I would think that your odds are low that this will occur.

Its your money, time and engine -- so you can make the call -- but this is certainly a possible option.

good luck,

Mike

[mdamborg]

:( :( :( :(

Do any of you guys know if Porsche recognizes this a "factory error" on these engines?

Regards,

Damborg

You can remove the IMS without the bolt -- it is not easy but it can be done.

Do everything as if you are going to do an IMSR, then

1) There is a special tool that can be had for about $90 that hooks onto the old style puller that LNE used

to distribute -- I think the old one as a K 22-1 and you want a K 21-2 or 21-4 from Kukuu.

2) If that doesn't work -- you can try to weld onto the existing bearing assembly and pull from there.

3) if that causes the assembly to disintegrate, you can still save yourself by cutting out the outer assembly

you will have to clean out all the debris, consider blocking any place the debris could fall into while you are doing the work.

(We have successfully done this BTW)

I would check in the oil filter to see if you have any metal shavings. If you don't than the bolt failure may not have

fallen into the engine, and/or it didn't cause any debris.

To be safe I would short cycle the oil after startup -- maybe run it for 20 minutes than dump the oil and check the filter.

You can use regular oil for this -- you are just trying to flush the system.

Now something could be in a spot that hasn't caused damage and you get unlucky and now you do this

and it lodges itself catastrophically. You're slightly worse off than if you disassemble now.

However I would think that your odds are low that this will occur.

Its your money, time and engine -- so you can make the call -- but this is certainly a possible option.

good luck,

Mike

I just went to inspect the damages of the engine at my local Porsche shop - the bearing has for sure failed, but the mechanic said the amount of debris wasn't that extensive and he didn't notice anything further "down the engine"?!

We agreed on the procedure as you mentioned and dissect the oil filter to check for foreign objects.

Am I correct to say, if we do not find any metal debris in the filter, an LNE IMS kit would do the job? This would potentially be a big money saver...!!

I intend to contact Porsche AG in Germany to discuss this matter - especially because I find it difficult to accept, that a Porsche with only 70t kilometers and a complete service history has such a serious break down?!?! Furthermore Porsche in Denmark refused to extend my Porsche Approved warranty on the car in December; a warranty extension Porsche Germany would have done with no remarks...!! This engine failure would have been covered by the warranty, and I find the integrity of Porsche Denmark to be doubtful, as these warranty procedures is to be identical all over Europe....!

[txhokie4life]

Make sure to check to insure the camshaft timings and maybe boroscope the cylinders to make sure

that there has been no damage to the valve train. It doesn't take much.

You don't want to do the IMSR, fire it up, and then cause some further damage.

But otherwise that sounds fantastic.

If you have a manual - consider replacing the clutch, and definitely do the RMS while you are in there.

You would have already paid 80-90% of the labor.

good luck,

Mike

[Dharn55]

You may also want to consider replacing the swirlpots. If a piece of metal does get picked up by a scavenger pump it is sent through a swirlpot before it goes back to the oil pan. They are not expensive.

[txhokie4life]

You may also want to consider replacing the swirlpots. If a piece of metal does get picked up by a scavenger pump it is sent through a swirlpot before it goes back to the oil pan. They are not expensive.

Does swirl pot mean camshaft oil pump?

Or the main oil pump?

thanks,

Mike

[ALLSPEED]

The two swirl pots are plastic devices in your oil sump that help de-foam the oil before it is pumped back up from what I understand. They could have metal in them. Do a search on YouTube for L&N deep sump replacement by Jake Raby. It will show you the swirl pots. Lots and lots of luck, Robert.

[mdamborg]

Thank you all......

I am still discussing the repair job with my local Porsche dealer and the Danish Porsche import.

...furthermore they have promised to get a hold of Porsche HQ to discuss the case...... I DIDEN'T BUY A PORSCHE TO SPENT ALL MY SAVINGS ON REPAIRS....!!! !:censored:

I will keep you guys posted!

/Damborg