Putting your 996/986/997/987 up on Jackstands

[Orient Express]

There are any number of low profile jacks available. I have used a Harbor Freight aluminum "Racing" jack for about 5 years, and have had excellent results with it. Sears offers a similar jack. Griots Garage also has an excellent low profile jack too. I'm sure that other board members have a favorite low-profile jack that they would recommend as well.

[perryinva]

I know this is beating a dead horse, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say something and someone got hurt. I work in a business where industrial accidents will usually kill you and we are trained constantly to watch for things like this. Orient, I love your car, I love your advice, I respect your prowess regarding these cars, but your advice to jack from the engine is just plain dangerous. You have, in essence, said "It's not aproblem at all, as long as you absolutely know that your motor mount will not give way." The sudden shift from a failing motor mount, regardless of the cause or reason, when the car is in the air, absolutely provides a chance for someone to get killed. I don't understand how you can't see this. I KNOW it's only until you get the car properly supported, etc, but the fact is, someone will eventually forget that part, and be under the car when it happens, or it will shift to the side and crush a bystanders foot, not even mentioning the exact thisng that happened to the OPs car from the shifting. It happens so fast, there is no time to react. I specifically asked both the dealer and my indy, last year about this, during a tech session, and he said, point blank, "you'd have to be crazy to do that." When I told him that on the message boards they say all dealers do it regularly, he said, "not ever as long as he's been working on Porsches". I am sorry, but you are wrong to recommend this. If you want to insist it's alright, then please preface it with something like "This advice can get you killed, but this is what I do"

My $0.02.

[Orient Express]

I know this is beating a dead horse, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say something and someone got hurt. I work in a business where industrial accidents will usually kill you and we are trained constantly to watch for things like this. Orient, I love your car, I love your advice, I respect your prowess regarding these cars, but your advice to jack from the engine is just plain dangerous. You have, in essence, said "It's not aproblem at all, as long as you absolutely know that your motor mount will not give way." The sudden shift from a failing motor mount, regardless of the cause or reason, when the car is in the air, absolutely provides a chance for someone to get killed. I don't understand how you can't see this. I KNOW it's only until you get the car properly supported, etc, but the fact is, someone will eventually forget that part, and be under the car when it happens, or it will shift to the side and crush a bystanders foot, not even mentioning the exact thisng that happened to the OPs car from the shifting. It happens so fast, there is no time to react. I specifically asked both the dealer and my indy, last year about this, during a tech session, and he said, point blank, "you'd have to be crazy to do that." When I told him that on the message boards they say all dealers do it regularly, he said, "not ever as long as he's been working on Porsches". I am sorry, but you are wrong to recommend this. If you want to insist it's alright, then please preface it with something like "This advice can get you killed, but this is what I do"

My $0.02.

Thank you very much. A very well presented counter-point.

[jasper]

Nice thread. I was old school 911 up until 2007 and we always lifted our cars by the motors. That's how it was done. I thought it would be ok with my 996 also, but now as I read more about these new-fangled hydraulic motor mounts I start to understand why it is I have to learn some new tricks.

So the question then is....are rubber or (gulp) solid motor mounts available for the 996? I haven't heard of any....

[Orient Express]

Nice thread. I was old school 911 up until 2007 and we always lifted our cars by the motors. That's how it was done. I thought it would be ok with my 996 also, but now as I read more about these new-fangled hydraulic motor mounts I start to understand why it is I have to learn some new tricks.

So the question then is....are rubber or (gulp) solid motor mounts available for the 996? I haven't heard of any....

Yes there are solid mounts available, but their use is primarily in racing. The solid mounts transmit a lot of NVH into the engine.

Again this issue with mounts failing are for primarily higher mileage cars. The mounts will almost universally fail on cars with higher than 70K miles on them. The only control you have of this failure is wether you want it to happen in your garage where you will be aware of the failure, or out on the road where you might not notice it for many many months.

By the way, I got a chuckle from this photo in this months Excellence magazine.

[Rennsource]

@orient xpress I'm an fng on 996 DIY - or any auto DIY for that matter. I'm using renntech as my bible though and plan to do the 45K minor myself. Currently working on replacing my headlight switch. (bi-x lights not working) As for the solid motor mounts, what is NVH? Is it bad for the car? I plan on doing some autocross and maybe some time trials - should I switch to solid motor mounts?

thanks,

pete

(2002 996 C2 Tip)

I'll also be cleaning the radiators thanks to the bumper removal video on renntech)

Edited May 14, 2010 by Rennsource

[Orient Express]

Solid mounts will certainly not leak, but they will transmit much more NVH to the body of the car. They are great for racing, but there are mixed opinions for street use.

NVH stands for Noise, Vibration, Harshness. It is not bad for the car, but it makes the driving experience less pleasurable for a daily driver car.

[OscarAH1W]

Orient-

Superb detailed post. I just wanted to comment that your technique requires minor modifications if you happen to be putting a turbo up on the stands. The front end goes up on stands exactly as you describe. The issue with the turbo is that you can't get to a central jacking point with the front up and the rear now even lower. Also, I found out the "pad" where you would jack is farther forward on the Turbo than the M96 engines. My "solution" is as follows: Now that the front is on stands, jack one side again using the rear jacking point (the front will come off the stand so take your time) and remove the rear wheel. Once the wheel is removed you can put a stand under the suspension cross member (just inboard of where the a-arm bushing is) and lower the jack. NOW you can get the jack far enough under the rear to lift the whole rear end and you move the previous stand to the rear jacking point as you describe and install the fourth stand. Lower it and you're good to go! I took about an hour to figure this out and forgot to take pictures, ha ha. I will take them once I get my refinished wheels back and have to do it in reverse.

[Orient Express]

Thanks for a great idea.

Since I wrote the original post, I had installed the ROW M030 suspension on my car, and it lowered it to about the height of a turbo, so now what I do to get the Jack under the rear of the car is drive the rear tires onto some short 2x4s. That 1.5" of additional clearance is all I need to get the jack under the rear.

[logray]

Similar to Orient, after installing PSS10's, I built some little helper ramps for the rear wheels to drive up on out of 2x10x8 board cut in half and doubled over (to give an extra 3 inches of lift).

Then I can fit my floor jack completely under the rear of the car.

[ahcjar103]

quick question: i'm doing front rotors/pads on my 04 c4s this weekend. since i only need the front wheels off the ground, is it safe to jack up the car and only have the front on jackstands? with parking brake, car in gear, and stops behind the rear...

thanks in advance...

[fullmetaljacket]

Sorry to resurrect this thread. Your engine looks really clean - wow! Mine is really untidy looking so I'm having difficulty in determining if it's the right spot or not.

Is this the same and right spot???

[creekman]

Does everyone feel comfortable "jacking" on the engine. I've already read in several posts where members have had to replace their motor mounts because of wear, I'm wondering if this only hastens their demise?

Thanks,

[creekman]

I can't find the delete button on the "edit" page, is there one or double posts, etc?

Thanks,

[Loren]

I can't find the delete button on the "edit" page, is there one or double posts, etc?

Thanks,

Either an Admin or Moderator will remove any double posts.

[hi8ha]

OK, perhaps this picture could help to pinpoint the place where to jack the car. Could someone circle the location? I'm confused as to where exactly place the jack.

[RFM]

The engine should not be used as a jacking point if the car is equipped with hydraulic engine mounts which is the case for non mod. 996/7 C2/4. The risk of damage to the hydraulic mounts is present, they have been designed to carry hanging weight (engine). If you use the engine as a jacking point, the mounts are pressed, where they are not designed for, with a much higher weight namely the entire rear end of the car.

[judibake]

I would like to add my two cents worth. I recently jacked up my 996 using the support just behind the sump as was suggested. It was not jacked high and the car was supported at the jacking points with very low car jacks. As I was changing the oil and filter I noticed fluid leaking down from the right side of the engine compartment. Once the oil change was completed the jacks were removed and the car lowered. I then removed the entire air intake housing to view the right engine compartment more fully. I found a long split in the front of the water hose exiting the engine block. I can only speculate that the cause was jacking the engine up to lift the car. The hose is fixed laterally to the frame but is mobile on the engine. The shear force fractured the hose.

My only suggestion is to jack the rear of the car using the subframe cross member. You may get away with using the engine most of the time but I will not take that chance again. The coincidence was too convincing.

Mel G

[MontereyC4S]

First Renntech post - I just joined yesterday.

 

I read through all the posts here yesterday, plus read the Pelican how-to, and watched the video of the guy using a helper jack on his 997.

 

Some background: I bought my 996 C4S 4 years ago, but I have only put about 4k miles on it.  It had great maintenance history despite 150k miles, and the only work needed so far has been a swap of the motor oil and transmission fluid.  I did that soon after buying the car, and I couldn't remember much about how I went about it last time.  Reading the posts here reminded me that I DID jack on the engine lift point, and didn't damage anything.  (At 150k miles, the motor mounts are certainly not original...maybe they are quite new?)  I have a lot of tools and experience working on 90s/2000s BMWs, but no Porsche experience.  

 

Here's my process:

1. I bought 4 ESCO jack stands from Amazon for $220.  Seeing the jack points on the 996 worries me that I would need all kinds of chunks of wood to work with the saddle type and round steel type stands I already have.  Annoying and not the safest way.   I bought the regular ESCO stands.  In hindsight, the low-profile ones are probably better for our cars, but at least I'll be ready any real big job that comes up.  The ESCO stands work PERFECTLY with the 996 jack points.  I wished I'd bought these a decade ago for all my cars.

2. I bought a 2x10 and cut four 18" long pieces.

3. Using my trusty aluminum "racing" jack from Harbor Freight, I jacked up the car using the right rear jack point.

4. With jack on lowest point, slide it under the right front jack point.

5. Slide two 2x10 pieces double-stacked under the right rear tire.

6. Lower the car onto the stand and wood.

7. Repeat on the left side.  (side order doesn't matter)

8. With the rear tires 3" off the ground, it's easy to reach the best rear jacking point - the center of the suspension cross member.  

9. Lift car enough to get jack stands under both rear jack points.

10. Lower car onto jack stands.  Ta-da!  That's pretty fast and easy!

11. Slide wood boards out of the way.  Remove wheels.

 

For my suspension project (Ohlins coil-overs), I think I'll have enough room.  But if you need to raise the car higher, it's easy now that the wheels are removed.  So I suggest always starting with the jack stands in the lowest positions.  For the rear, use the center of the suspension cross member (duh!).  For the front, you can now get to the reinforced part of the body just inside the front jack point.  (This is impossible when the car is on the ground, which makes the Pelican article most useless IMO.)  see yellow arrow in figure 1 at link below.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-996-997-Carrera/01-BASIC-Jacking_Up_Your_Car/01-BASIC-Jacking_Up_Your_Car.htm

 

I hope this helps any other 996 newbies in the future.  Hard to get far on DIY maintenance if you can't get the car in the air!

 

As for the Ohlins project, I will report back.  My plan is to replace all suspect bushings, certainly the 8 big links.  Probably replace with stock end links, for now.  Then drive car and assess the impact of Ohlins (and new bushes) by itself.  Then replace the very tired Sumitomos, probably with Michelin Pilots.  Then maybe swap the sway bars also.  My pace is glacial due to job and family, so don't expect to hear back for a while.  

 

Cheers!

[Curtis Campi]

On 5/14/2010 at 3:37 AM, Orient Express said:

Solid mounts will certainly not leak, but they will transmit much more NVH to the body of the car. They are great for racing, but there are mixed opinions for street use.

NVH stands for Noise, Vibration, Harshness. It is not bad for the car, but it makes the driving experience less pleasurable for a daily driver car.

I recently bought an ‘03 and was told by the seller that he installed “semi rigid” motor mounts…..any opinions on those?

[JFP in PA]

8 hours ago, Curtis Campi said:

I recently bought an ‘03 and was told by the seller that he installed “semi rigid” motor mounts…..any opinions on those?

 

Welcome to RennTech  and Happy New Year!

For street use, semi rigid motor mounts are probably a bad idea; noise and constant vibration.

[Josh Ulam]

I have had Quick Jacks 7000# for about 3 years now and I love how safe I feel under the car and it is level when it is up on the stands.  I think I paid $1150 from Costco and they are the best thing I think a garage owner can have in their arsenal.  Albeit they aren’t long enough to lift medium size SUV’s like our X3, but for the Pcar and even a 2017 Dodge Ram, it works great!