Putting your 996/986/997/987 up on Jackstands

[RotorHead]

There is no way to "properly" lift the car using a free hanging engine.

Sure there is. The method that I describe which is done day in and day out in every Porsche workshop world-wide.

Keep in mind that the time that the car is being supported this way is just the time necessary (like a minute or two) to get the rear jack stands under the car. This process subjects the engine and motor mounts to far less stress that the they receive under normal road use. Because of this short duration there is absolutely not an issue. Keep in mind that the engine is normally hanging off of the chassis by the rear motor mounts, and the lifting of the engine simply puts compression on these mounts in exactly the same way that they get compressed in normal road use (like when the car hits a bump, or is driven on rough roads).

Now some will chime in that after lifting their car this way, that they experienced a ruptured motor mount. In those cases, the mount was going to fail anyway due to operational fatigue and it better that the mount failed during maintenance rather than unexpectedly where it might not be discovered for many miles.

How about the round jack pad adapters...are they necessary? Please advise...

[1999Porsche911]

There is no way to "properly" lift the car using a free hanging engine.

Sure there is. The method that I describe which is done day in and day out in every Porsche workshop world-wide.

Keep in mind that the time that the car is being supported this way is just the time necessary (like a minute or two) to get the rear jack stands under the car. This process subjects the engine and motor mounts to far less stress that the they receive under normal road use. Because of this short duration there is absolutely not an issue. Keep in mind that the engine is normally hanging off of the chassis by the rear motor mounts, and the lifting of the engine simply puts compression on these mounts in exactly the same way that they get compressed in normal road use (like when the car hits a bump, or is driven on rough roads).

Now some will chime in that after lifting their car this way, that they experienced a ruptured motor mount. In those cases, the mount was going to fail anyway due to operational fatigue and it better that the mount failed during maintenance rather than unexpectedly where it might not be discovered for many miles.

How about the round jack pad adapters...are they necessary? Please advise...

No.

[1999Porsche911]

There is no way to "properly" lift the car using a free hanging engine.

Sure there is. The method that I describe which is done day in and day out in every Porsche workshop world-wide.

Keep in mind that the time that the car is being supported this way is just the time necessary (like a minute or two) to get the rear jack stands under the car. This process subjects the engine and motor mounts to far less stress that the they receive under normal road use. Because of this short duration there is absolutely not an issue. Keep in mind that the engine is normally hanging off of the chassis by the rear motor mounts, and the lifting of the engine simply puts compression on these mounts in exactly the same way that they get compressed in normal road use (like when the car hits a bump, or is driven on rough roads).

Now some will chime in that after lifting their car this way, that they experienced a ruptured motor mount. In those cases, the mount was going to fail anyway due to operational fatigue and it better that the mount failed during maintenance rather than unexpectedly where it might not be discovered for many miles.

No all, as well as NO Porsche dealer I have ever seen, raises the rear of the car using the engine. Additionally, no road or track operation will ever exert the 1000+ pounds of pressure on the motor mounts as jacking the car by the engine will.

Porsche specifically states "never lift the vehicle by the engine, transmission or axles".

Edited December 1, 2008 by 1999Porsche911

[Purplxd]

I tried doing this and blew both my motor mounts... went with solid RS mounts but will be doing it by the rear cross member next time.

Cheers

Aaron

[RFM]

To put some light on this topic: it was usual to lift the rear of the car by the engine, as Moderator Orient Express stated, till Carrera 3.2 litre (all air coolers) included. All these vehicles had SOLLID RUBBER engine mounts, since the introduction of the HYDRAULIC engine mounts, it is prohibited to lift the the vehicle by the engine. Hope it's helps.

[my996]

Is this the cross member where I can place the rear hydraulic lift?

And someone please explain how to clean the under side of the car as good as Orient Express did! Wow!!!

Edited August 23, 2009 by my996

[flyingpenguin]

My goodness! Does this car actually see any roads? It looks so immaculate that I feel sorry for both car and owner. Aren't these cars supposed to be DRIVEN?

JP

[Orient Express]

My goodness! Does this car actually see any roads? It looks so immaculate that I feel sorry for both car and owner. Aren't these cars supposed to be DRIVEN?

JP

So far it has only been driven 67,000 miles. It is just barely broken in.

[my996]

So please share how you clean it. I am serious. :)

[PILFILR]

There is no way to "properly" lift the car using a free hanging engine.

Sure there is. The method that I describe which is done day in and day out in every Porsche workshop world-wide.

Keep in mind that the time that the car is being supported this way is just the time necessary (like a minute or two) to get the rear jack stands under the car. This process subjects the engine and motor mounts to far less stress that the they receive under normal road use. Because of this short duration there is absolutely not an issue. Keep in mind that the engine is normally hanging off of the chassis by the rear motor mounts, and the lifting of the engine simply puts compression on these mounts in exactly the same way that they get compressed in normal road use (like when the car hits a bump, or is driven on rough roads).

Now some will chime in that after lifting their car this way, that they experienced a ruptured motor mount. In those cases, the mount was going to fail anyway due to operational fatigue and it better that the mount failed during maintenance rather than unexpectedly where it might not be discovered for many miles.

No all, as well as NO Porsche dealer I have ever seen, raises the rear of the car using the engine. Additionally, no road or track operation will ever exert the 1000+ pounds of pressure on the motor mounts as jacking the car by the engine will.

Porsche specifically states "never lift the vehicle by the engine, transmission or axles".

I agree... Only use the four lifting points. I used four (2&1/4 ton) floor jacks to raise the car ($39/each at sears). Then threw jackstands under a 2x6 just in case. The only time to jack the engine is when replacing engine mounts...

[911rox]

Whilst I have no input on the jacking from the engine vs jacking from the crossmember- I do have a suggestion for jacking the rear (from the cross-member) without risking damage to engine and avoiding clearance issues or the use of ramps which can be dangerous.

If you jack at the rear points, one at a time and slide a 3-4 inch timber block under each tyre, then repeat on the other side, you give yourself an extra 3-4 inches clearance to slide the jack straight under to the cross member and lift the car without clearance issues. This is what I intend to do...

Just one question, when placing the front jack stands, how do you place them under the lifting pads it you are also lifting there? Or do you lift each side from elsewhere to allow the lifting pads free for the stands???

[Orient Express]

Just one question, when placing the front jack stands, how do you place them under the lifting pads it you are also lifting there? Or do you lift each side from elsewhere to allow the lifting pads free for the stands???

I lift the car using only the rear jack-points on the car. That will lift the entire side of the car high enough, that it is easy to put a jackstand under the front mount points.

[911rox]

Just one question, when placing the front jack stands, how do you place them under the lifting pads it you are also lifting there? Or do you lift each side from elsewhere to allow the lifting pads free for the stands???

I lift the car using only the rear jack-points on the car. That will lift the entire side of the car high enough, that it is easy to put a jackstand under the front mount points.

Thanx Orient, makes sense considering the stiffness of these vehicles...

[tac27]

I had an interesting experience when placing my 996 on jackstands today.

I'm chasing a small coolant leak and decided to get the car up in the air, remove the left rear tire, and snoop around under the car to see if I can spot what is leaking.

I've always used the method illustrated by Orient; I use the area (I'm not sure what to call it) shown in Orient's picture that is immediately behind the engine sump cover. As I raised the car, large amounts of oil began pouring from the car on both sides. Upon inspection (this included removing the airbox) the oil was coming from the underside of the engine mounts, running down the long nut and bolt, dripping onto the exaust pipe, and then onto the garage floor. Both mounts were 'leaking' thought the mount on the passenger side appeared to be loosing more fluid/oil.

Anyone experience this before?

I know this is cliche, but my warranty just expired August 31! Before it expired I had the dealer replace the oil sending unit. Do they lower the engine to replace that part? I'm wondering if they did something to the mounts.

Tim

Las Vegas

[Orient Express]

I had an interesting experience when placing my 996 on jackstands today.

I'm chasing a small coolant leak and decided to get the car up in the air, remove the left rear tire, and snoop around under the car to see if I can spot what is leaking.

I've always used the method illustrated by Orient; I use the area (I'm not sure what to call it) shown in Orient's picture that is immediately behind the engine sump cover. As I raised the car, large amounts of oil began pouring from the car on both sides. Upon inspection (this included removing the airbox) the oil was coming from the underside of the engine mounts, running down the long nut and bolt, dripping onto the exaust pipe, and then onto the garage floor. Both mounts were 'leaking' thought the mount on the passenger side appeared to be loosing more fluid/oil.

Anyone experience this before?

I know this is cliche, but my warranty just expired August 31! Before it expired I had the dealer replace the oil sending unit. Do they lower the engine to replace that part? I'm wondering if they did something to the mounts.

Tim

Las Vegas

Very unusual to lose both mounts, that appears to be what happened. I would visit your dealer and complain and see if they will fix it for you.

[tac27]

Already checked, the service tech claimed that they did not need to lower the engine to reach the oil sending unit.

I'm not thrilled at a $310 expense, but at least I can replace them myself.

[Orient Express]

Already checked, the service tech claimed that they did not need to lower the engine to reach the oil sending unit.

I'm not thrilled at a $310 expense, but at least I can replace them myself.

I did not see how many miles you had on your car or what year it was, but as a consolation, these type of fluid filled motor mounts were going to fail anyway. The average life of them is between 70 and 120K miles on normal usage. Less if you track the car or drive agressively, more if it is just a boulevard cruiser.

Good thing is that they are extremely easy to replace.

Regardless, one could make a case that their failure so close to the end of the warranty is a candidate for warranty goodwill at the minimum for the parts and possibly for the labor too.

[tac27]

Yes, that is what I was going for too; put on my best diplomatic face, but they weren't having any of that.....

Car is just '03 with just under 90,000 miles; its my daily stress relief. I typically participate in one PCA DE and perhpas half a dozen auto crosses annually.

I'm hoping they are easy to install! I've previously replaced the coolant tank, lowered the engine to do that; confidence is high I can get these in. Ordered replacements from Pelican Parts (sorry, Sunset didn't return my online inquiry) they are scheduled for delivery tomorrow.

Thanks for the information and advice.

Tim

Las Vegas

Edited September 14, 2009 by tac27

[SH-GT3]

If you jack at the rear points, one at a time and slide a 3-4 inch timber block under each tyre, then repeat on the other side, you give yourself an extra 3-4 inches clearance to slide the jack straight under to the cross member and lift the car without clearance issues.

Since I am fairly low this is exactly what I do to get the rear up in the air in one shot.

[Orient Express]

If you jack at the rear points, one at a time and slide a 3-4 inch timber block under each tyre, then repeat on the other side, you give yourself an extra 3-4 inches clearance to slide the jack straight under to the cross member and lift the car without clearance issues.

Since I am fairly low this is exactly what I do to get the rear up in the air in one shot.

Every good Porsche shop has a pair of 2x4s in the back just for this use.

[Optical TDI]

I have a set of ramps and 2 jack stands. Can I lift one side from the rear jack point, put a Rhino ramp under the rear wheel and a jack stand under the front jack point. Then do the same on the other side?

[turbodriven]

I would like to say to anyone in here reading this, BE VERY VERY CAREFUL when jacking the car from the rear point. In my opinion it should never be done. There will be people here that argue that the mileage and age of my car was more a contributing factor than the jackpoint itself but I'm not so convinced. I've got a 1999 996 with 97k on the clock. I was raising the car on all four points to do a transmission oil change and engine oil change all in one shot. I jacked the two rear points to put stands under the front jack points. Then started to raise the rear using the motor point in the back. Up and up she went when all of a sudden BAM!!! the left motor mount let go and fluid started gushing out all over the place. It let go so violently that the jack shift a bit and slipped off the jack point (if that is what we are calling it). Closer inspection showed that the jack settled on the cast aluminum coolant "tank?" right behind it. Punctured it and caused a pinhole leak of coolant out. That "tank" is fully integrated into the back of the engine and the car. To remove it and have it welded would be a serious endeavor. So I got some high temperature, metal infused, JB Weld Putty and plugged it that way. We'll see if it holds.

The cliff notes to this story is this: If your car is over 75k miles and you jack your car from the rear motor mount. Expect to be replacing at least one of your motor mounts the next day. It's a gamble I will never take again.

[Orient Express]

As I have said over and over, lifting the rear of the car by the engine to place the rear jack stands is not the issue for motor mount failure. The issue is fluid filled motor mounts are guaranteed to fail if they have more than 60-80K miles on them. It is not a matter of if, but just when.

It is much better to have them fail and get your attention so you can replace them, rather than them fail on the road somewhere, and you drive around for many miles before you discover that they have failed.

There is absolutely nothing wrong to lift the rear of the car with a jack on the engine as long as:

1. You lift the car and get the rear jack stands under the rear lift points as soon as possible as to get the load off of the engine. i.e. if you can't do this operation in under 3 minutes, you probably should not be doing it in the first place, and

2. Pay attention to what you are doing so that the jack is on the proper and safe lifting point on the engine.

UPDATE

I am now recommending that if your 996/997/986/987 has more than 90K miles on it, that as part of the 90K oil change that the rear motor mounts be replaced as well. This is a very easy operation, and given the expected life of fluid filled motor mounts is a reasonable item to replace.

[Porsche4s]

Please recommend a low profile, light weight, easily stored - floor jack. Thank you

[Loren]

Please recommend a low profile, light weight, easily stored - floor jack. Thank you

Most of the ones sold at major outlets (like Sears, Lowes, etc.) are good.

My favorite is the Torin - low profile, light, and great quality.