Boxster Engine Replacement

[surs]

I took my 97 boxster in because I had a failing water pump. The next thing I know, I have been told the main berring is about to go out, and I need a new engine. They told me labor this far is 5 hours to remove the transmission and find the problem, and if they are to put it back together it would be another 5 hours if I choose to take the car home and try to sell it as a "fixer-upper". They also quoted between 55-60 hours of labor to replace the engine.....

The car is at a Porsche Dealership, but I'm worried I'm being "taken for a ride" because I'm a gal, and the repair guy offered to purchase my car from me for $2500 in case I don't want to spend $18-$20K on the new engine and installation. Any thoughts from anyone? The dude also offered to "waive the labor fee up to this point" if I choose to sell him the car. I've got a funny feeling, but it doesn't seem that it should take a professional 10 hours to remove, then replace a transmission!!!!

Anyone's help/advise on this would be much appreciated. Reality is that I really don't know a whole lot about any of this, so this guy really may have seen me coming.....

Thanks,

Pamela

[txhokie4life]

sorry to hear ur troubles. sadly u r not alone

10 hours to pull and replace is not that far off .. esp if it is a tiptronic

however 50 hours to rebuild is about 2x to much.

u do not need to replace the tranny to get ur engine fixed.

why do that .. ur next mechanic would have to pull it again.

$2500 plus no labor to this point is not that bad of a cash offer.

tops might be 3500 depending on condition and mileage

realistically a 97 is worth less thna 10k .. mileage and condition dependant.

now how they can tell ir main bearing is shot is another story.

if u have intermix with a water pump failure ... you'll likely want a complete rebuild .. in that the antifrreze can hurt your engine internals. that doesn't have to be as bad as it sounds .... but even so that is probably a start if 4-5 grand at an indy like ours... if there is any damage internally it can climb from there

good luck with it.

mike in austin

rebuilding these is a hobby for me .. so i'm not totally shooting from the hip.

good luck .. and please pm or post if u want more help/guidance.

mike

[surs]

Thanks for your help. The way he found the bearing issue was there was an oil leak that they were trying to chase down (originally it was just the water pump failure, but I think they found the leaks either during diagnostics or due to the drips raining down on the repairman's head) =) When they got to the leaky gasket, they were face to face with the bearing. The cover had already broken off and was missing, and they showed me the amount of play and rattle in the bearing, and how the wire around the bearing was all bent. They commented how rare it is to find one of these right before they break- they normally see the car a few weeks after this point after catastrophic failure.

The only reason I'd have them put the tranny back is to get the car to a non-dealership repair shop that won't charge me $140/hr.....

So... to make sure I'm interpreting what your thoughts are correctly.... If he gives me $2500, plus the $700 of labor he's done so far.... I should take the $3300 and run?

I'm soooo sad- this was my fun car!

-or-

Is it worth getting it fixed?

sorry to hear ur troubles. sadly u r not alone

10 hours to pull and replace is not that far off .. esp if it is a tiptronic

however 50 hours to rebuild is about 2x to much.

u do not need to replace the tranny to get ur engine fixed.

why do that .. ur next mechanic would have to pull it again.

$2500 plus no labor to this point is not that bad of a cash offer.

tops might be 3500 depending on condition and mileage

realistically a 97 is worth less thna 10k .. mileage and condition dependant.

now how they can tell ir main bearing is shot is another story.

if u have intermix with a water pump failure ... you'll likely want a complete rebuild .. in that the antifrreze can hurt your engine internals. that doesn't have to be as bad as it sounds .... but even so that is probably a start if 4-5 grand at an indy like ours... if there is any damage internally it can climb from there

good luck with it.

mike in austin

rebuilding these is a hobby for me .. so i'm not totally shooting from the hip.

good luck .. and please pm or post if u want more help/guidance.

mike

[JFP in PA]

I'm a little confused here, what "wire around the bearing" ("When they got to the leaky gasket, they were face to face with the bearing. The cover had already broken off and was missing, and they showed me the amount of play and rattle in the bearing, and how the wire around the bearing was all bent")are you refering to???

Edited June 11, 2010 by JFP in PA

[surs]

Does anyone know if the LN Engineering retrofit bearing fits the 97 boxster?

[JFP in PA]

Does anyone know if the LN Engineering retrofit bearing fits the 97 boxster?

It does, but I'd still like you to answer my questions from above............... something ain't right here...........

Edited June 11, 2010 by JFP in PA

[surs]

Thanks for your help.... There was a wire about 4mm in diameter somehow associated with the bearings, which was visibly bent, but I think the more notable part was in addition to the bearing balls going around in the circle, they also had some sideways movement... they weren't snug in their housing. I'm obviously not good with the terminology,,, =) Do you think that the bearing is actually maybe okay?

Hmmm.... to explain better I'll try again.... The repair guy had me walk under the car and there was a triangle in the middle of the car on the rear end (connected to the shaft?) that had an area of little round balls in a circle. The balls didn't just go around, but the whole casing had "play" going side to side.

Am I doing any better with the description? =) I'm DEFINITELY new at this!

Any thoguhts? =)

I'm a little confused here, what "wire around the bearing" ("When they got to the leaky gasket, they were face to face with the bearing. The cover had already broken off and was missing, and they showed me the amount of play and rattle in the bearing, and how the wire around the bearing was all bent")are you refering to???

[JFP in PA]

Is this what you are refering to? And if so, how did you get from the water pump on the front of the engine to the rear without the flywheel? If this is it, it is the IMS bearing assembly, which can be replaced without having to rebuild the engine, unless the engine has "jumped time" and bent all the valves.................

Also, is the shop doing the work a Porsche shop? Reason for asking is that before you remove that triangular cover, the engine needs to be locked at TDC and the cams locked in position using special tooling to prevent the engine jumping time.

The engine may be just fine, but pulling apart the IMS is not something that should be tackled by a shop without considerable experience as well a the correct tools.

Edited June 11, 2010 by JFP in PA

[surs]

Yep, that's what I'm referring to.... I took the car in originally for the water pump, but the dealer found the oil leak and saw the clutch needed replacing, so they took off the transmission and- low and behold- a bad bearing.....

Is this what you are refering to? And if so, how did you get from the water pump on the front of the engine to the rear without the flywheel? If this is it, it is the IMS bearing assembly, which can be replaced without having to rebuild the engine, unless the engine has "jumped time" and bent all the valves.................

[JFP in PA]

Yep, that's what I'm referring to.... I took the car in originally for the water pump, but the dealer found the oil leak and saw the clutch needed replacing, so they took off the transmission and- low and behold- a bad bearing.....

Is this what you are refering to? And if so, how did you get from the water pump on the front of the engine to the rear without the flywheel? If this is it, it is the IMS bearing assembly, which can be replaced without having to rebuild the engine, unless the engine has "jumped time" and bent all the valves.................

OK, you are dealing with the dreaded IMS. If the shop is a dealer, I have to assume they know the correct procedures to do this. Yes, there is an LN bearing that will fit, and it is a much better unit than the OEM.

[GTA_G20]

Seeing that the car was running and brought in for water pump. The car clearly was driveable. I'd do a leakdown test to confirm its solely the waterpump which has failed and not a cracked head like mine. If all checks and no cracked head, I'd have them fix the waterpump and IMS bearing and your car will be able to drive out. You are at worst 10hours labour so far. It can't take more than 6hours to replace water pump and IMS. Clutch labour will be included in the 10 hours of reinstalling the transmission

FYI I paid $3500 for my 1997 last year with coolant and oil intermix, 133,000miles should you decide to sell it. Its a fair price.

The question is how much are you willing to spend on repairing the car???

[Reborn996]

I think you are being taken for a ride with this dealer... they probably know about the IMS bearing retrofit kit from LN Engineering and think they can get it cheap from you and fix it themselves. I have seen some low life mechanics try this before (at dealerships too!). I just had a new IMS bearing retrofit kit installed along with an RMS and new clutch for $1900 installed. I bought the clutch kit separately though so that was not part of the price. FYI

[txhokie4life]

Now that i know that your talking about the IMS and not the main bearing -- which can get damaged with intermix (or cause it!)

I think the mechanic might be scamming you.

We just did a RMS/IMSR on an automatic for <$1500 -- the water pump is ~300-350 tops.

I would have the car flat bedded to a local INDY w/o replacing the transmission and

go from there.

Mike

[seafeye]

This dealership isn't playing fair.

$2500 for a car without a motor and Trans working is very cheap. VERY VERY CHEAP.

If in fact it would cost $18k for the repairs (Which it wouldn't) the dealership would have over $20k into it.

There is no way that they could sell the car and make a profit. At most the car is worth $15....

Please find an independent shop and do your own cost search.

A 3.2L engine from a Boxster S can be had for $5k. Figure $3-$4k for the labor. At most.

Then you have a car with a newer motor and a bit more power. And most likely worth more.

This is what the dealership has in mind.

Or if you want to make some money....start taking the car apart and selling it bit by bit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-986-Boxster-Rebuilt-Motor-Engine-3-2-S-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2307b89d8dQQitemZ150453394829QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Porsche-Boxster-986-Engine-Motor-2-7-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2306b6f474QQitemZ150436508788QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[surs]

Thanks- I think you're right about the guy at the dealership- he saw a blonde chic and an oppotunity! =) I found another repair shop to do all of the repairs for less than $3000- water pump, clutch, bearing, and put the car back together. Boo for dishonest repair guys! This guy was going to charge me $3600 for the repairs BEFORE we realized that the bearing needed replacing!

I think you are being taken for a ride with this dealer... they probably know about the IMS bearing retrofit kit from LN Engineering and think they can get it cheap from you and fix it themselves. I have seen some low life mechanics try this before (at dealerships too!). I just had a new IMS bearing retrofit kit installed along with an RMS and new clutch for $1900 installed. I bought the clutch kit separately though so that was not part of the price. FYI

[surs]

Thanks, Mike. That's just what I'm doing.... I appreciate your help....

Now that i know that your talking about the IMS and not the main bearing -- which can get damaged with intermix (or cause it!)

I think the mechanic might be scamming you.

We just did a RMS/IMSR on an automatic for <$1500 -- the water pump is ~300-350 tops.

I would have the car flat bedded to a local INDY w/o replacing the transmission and

go from there.

Mike

[Wayne R. Dempsey]

Thanks- I think you're right about the guy at the dealership- he saw a blonde chic and an oppotunity! =) I found another repair shop to do all of the repairs for less than $3000- water pump, clutch, bearing, and put the car back together. Boo for dishonest repair guys! This guy was going to charge me $3600 for the repairs BEFORE we realized that the bearing needed replacing!

I think you are being taken for a ride with this dealer... they probably know about the IMS bearing retrofit kit from LN Engineering and think they can get it cheap from you and fix it themselves. I have seen some low life mechanics try this before (at dealerships too!). I just had a new IMS bearing retrofit kit installed along with an RMS and new clutch for $1900 installed. I bought the clutch kit separately though so that was not part of the price. FYI

Hi surs. It does seem very suspect. If you want to get this guy fired too, you can let his boss know that he's offering to buy cars outside of the dealership - HUGE conflict of interest for everyone!!!

As for your bearing, I have a 13,000 140-photo article that explains everything that can go wrong with the bearing, and what is needed to fix it. Link: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

If your car is located in Los Angeles, then I recommend you have it towed over to Callas Rennsport, and they won't screw you over like they sound like they are trying to do at this dealership.

Hope this helps,

Wayne

[Elucidus]

Good luck. Let us know how it goes with the independent... make sure to swing by the dealership and do some donuts after the car's all patched up. :)