Found Oil Inside The Water

[jijioz]

hi guys

few days back i noticed a little under performance from my 2000 c2 996 / tiptronic gear.

i noticed as well that the temperature meter is a bit higher then normal all the time but not to a level to consider the car is heated up.

just today while trying to add water i noticed there is oil inside the water!!!

what does that mean? should i stop the car and take it to the dealer?

thanks for your help

joe

[phillipj]

Yes you have a problem......

DO NOT START OR DRIVE THE CAR. Look at your oil dipstick and see if water has mixed with your oil (it will look like pancake batter.) If it has you have large problem. Could be a cracked head or a blown freeze plug. This means a rebuild or an engine replacement. Your dealer will only offer the replacement..

This happened to my 2000 Carrera so I know...

If there is no water in your oil you may have been spared. You could have a broken oil cooler. Not as big of a deal. In any case get your car to your mechanic asap.

Please update this post and I hope for the best.

Edited June 3, 2010 by phillipj

[Dharn55]

Do a search here and on the other boards, there is a lot of info available. The dealer and most mechanics are going to tell you that a new/re manufactured engine, or a used engine is the only solution. Don't believe them! This is what I was told and I fixed mine for less than $2,000 (I did most of the work myself so this does not include labor). I now have over 5,000 on my fixed engine and it is running great. Mine was a cracked head with oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. The less you drive it until it is fixed the better, but I did not find my problem until it was totally intermixed, could have been hundreds of miles, and the engine is running fine. I have worked with several other owners who have had an intermix and are fixing there engines.

Keep us posted.

[sehorntx]

Do a search here and on the other boards, there is a lot of info available. The dealer and most mechanics are going to tell you that a new/re manufactured engine, or a used engine is the only solution. Don't believe them! This is what I was told and I fixed mine for less than $2,000 (I did most of the work myself so this does not include labor). I now have over 5,000 on my fixed engine and it is running great. Mine was a cracked head with oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. The less you drive it until it is fixed the better, but I did not find my problem until it was totally intermixed, could have been hundreds of miles, and the engine is running fine. I have worked with several other owners who have had an intermix and are fixing there engines.

Keep us posted.

I will second Dharn55. I also had intermix from bilateral cracked heads. Dropped engine and did everything except machine work in my garage. Have 500 miles on my head repair and going strong. Saved many thousands of dollars. Would not have been possible without the kind help of the man who posted above me. I agree! It can be fixed!

[Dharn55]

Tim - Haven't heard from you in awhile. Glad to hear that you are on the road, but only 500 miles. You have to drive that thing more.:thumbup:

[jijioz]

thanks guys for the replies

i checked the oil and it is clean there is no water inside but the oil is missing quarter the quantity

i better take it to the local dealer and will update this post

[phillipj]

At least there is no intermix in the crankcase. Interesting that you have lost that much oil though.. Kudos to Dharn55 and Sehorntx. You guys rock.

[jijioz]

ok took the car to my dealer and said they need to change the oil cooler and flush the engine!!

another quik question: will a faulty airmass affect performance and speed?

they are telling me that mine is gone bad but i dont feel any loss of performance, i only have trouble starting the car soometimes but it will always start after 2-3 tries.

thanks guys

joe

[C2951]

ok took the car to my dealer and said they need to change the oil cooler and flush the engine!!

another quik question: will a faulty airmass affect performance and speed?

they are telling me that mine is gone bad but i dont feel any loss of performance, i only have trouble starting the car soometimes but it will always start after 2-3 tries.

A faulty MAF sensor will affect performance. It's likely that the sensor degrades slowly over time and you become accustomed to the change without recognizing the performance or drivability has degraded as well.

Good luck with the oil cooler change. Did they pressure test the cooler or just guess that was the problem area?

Edited June 4, 2010 by C2951

[jijioz]

ok took the car to my dealer and said they need to change the oil cooler and flush the engine!!

another quik question: will a faulty airmass affect performance and speed?

they are telling me that mine is gone bad but i dont feel any loss of performance, i only have trouble starting the car soometimes but it will always start after 2-3 tries.

A faulty MAF sensor will affect performance. It's likely that the sensor degrades slowly over time and you become accustomed to the change without recognizing the performance or drivability has degraded as well.

Good luck with the oil cooler change. Did they pressure test the cooler or just guess that was the problem area?

THNAKS FOR THE RELPY

they tested the car and then they actually removed the aprst out so i really dont know what this means :)

[phillipj]

It was the oil cooler..... I'm very happy for you!

[ziiz996]

It was the oil cooler..... I'm very happy for you!

I had a big road animal jump in front of my passenger side late one night. When I got home I noticed steam coming out of my passenger side radiator, and found out that the "Little" beast broke my bumper, air collector, spoiler and radiator and my A/C condensor. After replacing the radiator, the mechanic told me that there is now oil residue in the coolant fluid. Can someone please tell me the location of the oil cooler on a C2 Cab 02?

[Dharn55]

The oil cooler is on the top of the engine, on the passenger side, toward the front. There is no way that the oil cooler was effected by hitting the animal, and no way that breaking the radiator caused oil in the coolant.

If there is oil in the coolant you need to find the source as quickly as possible. It could be the oil cooler. To properly check them you have to do a pressure test, and you need to heat the cooler up as a leak/crack may not show up unless the cooler is at operating temperature.

Also, keep an eye on the oil for any signs of coolant in the oil. You might want to have the oil tested for coolant. The sooner you can catch an intermix the less chance of damage to the bearings, etc.

[ziiz996]

I hit the animal on a very dark country road. I thought that poor animal was surely splattered all over the road. But when I turned around, I saw nothing! And I swear that I did hear the animal roll under my car and heard a crackle of some sort in the back of the car. I thought for sure this was the poor animal's skeleton being crushed but it was not because the animal was not on the road.

I did not notice that the radiator was broken and leaking fluid until I pulled into the driveway and saw steam come out of the front of the car. Could it be possible that engine overheated and blew a head gasket? or is it possible that the crackling noise I heard in the back had something to do with the oil cooler or something else? I called Porsche and told them the symptoms and their response was to replace the engine if I found oil in the coolant.

[Dharn55]

The standard answer, particularly from Porsche, is to replace the engine if you find coolant in the oil, oil in the coolant is not quite as bad, but you do need to find the source. Of course Porsche wants to sell you an engine for $15,000+.

I can only tell you that this is the same answer I got from many sources when I had my intermix. And mine was really bad by the time I found out about it, which was when the coolant lights started blinking. By that time the coolant was like pudding, and the oil was like a chocolate milkshake. Spending $15,000+ to put an engine is a car that in today's market is worth maybe $20,000 or so made no sense. I did the labor myself, except for the fix of the cracked head which a shop in CA did. $500 for the head fix with a valve job, about another $1,000 in parts. I am back on the road with over 5,000 miles on the engine and it is running fine. Now I am sure the bearings to some wear from the contaminated oil, etc. but it can be done and the car runs fine.

If you can't do it yourself you need a mechanic that does not just accept the standard answer. Get the oil tested and the oil cooler tested and lets us know what is happening.

[PTEC]

How did you guys with cracked heads diagnose that was the cause of your intermix? Were the cracks visible? What part of the head? Do you have pictures?

[sehorntx]

PTEC

Had my 996 at an Indy who incorrectly diagnosed me with Oil Cooler broken. Replaced it without change in intermix. Wasnt going to spend the $ for new engine in this vehicle. Didnt identify the crack until I had the engine out and removed the spark plug tube for cylinder #1, then the crack was visible in the base of the recess. Unfortunately for me after having cylinder head 1-3 repaired found additional crack in Head 4-6. Thankfully hadnt put engine back in car. These cracks are visible to naked eye. And by note mine had a negative compression test as well. I have some nice pics of my crack if you're interested.

Tim

[Dharn55]

Found my cracked head after I checked the oil cooler and it was OK. Then dropped the engine and just started taking off the heads. The crack was readily visible once the lifter rack was out. Probably could have seen it sooner if I had know where to look. They are most common on the inner exhaust valve seat on cylinder #1 (or cylinder #6 which is basically them same area of the castings). Here are some pics of mine and another owners heads cracked in the exact same spot, same at Tim's. I also saw another owner's car that had a pin hole in the head that he only found with the head off and pressure tested it.

[wooz797]

would these cracks in the head cause an "oil in water" issue without a oil contamination? I ask because Im having the exact issue jijioz had. I have replaced the oilcooler and I still have the intermix issue but the oil is pure oil no water. Im perplexed as to what other causes there could be, with the oil staying pure oil.

[JFP in PA]

When the engine is running, the oil pressure is always higher than the pressure in the cooling system (~60 PSIG vs 18 PSIG), so if a crack or other route (e.g.: blown gaskets) for the oil to leak is there, the oil would have a natural tendancy to enter the cooling system.

Edited June 11, 2010 by JFP in PA

[C2951]

would these cracks in the head cause an "oil in water" issue without a oil contamination? I ask because Im having the exact issue jijioz had. I have replaced the oilcooler and I still have the intermix issue but the oil is pure oil no water. Im perplexed as to what other causes there could be, with the oil staying pure oil.

If you have oil in the coolant, you probably also have at least trace amounts of coolant in the oil. The reason for this is that after the engine is turned off, there will be zero oil pressure but the coolant will still be pressurized for some time. This will force coolant into the oil. The only way to reliably verify this is to send a sample of the oil to an analysis lab and look at the coolant contamination numbers on the analysis report. If significant amounts of coolant are in the oil, the oil will begin to feel sticky instead of slick. However, even in this state you will probably not be able discern a difference in the color of the oil.

Yes, I've dealt with a few oil-coolant intermix issues in different cars over the years. This pic is from a repair being made to a GM DOHC V6 which experience a failed valley-mounted oil cooler. That was a real mess.

Edited June 12, 2010 by C2951

[PTEC]

Found my cracked head after I checked the oil cooler and it was OK. Then dropped the engine and just started taking off the heads. The crack was readily visible once the lifter rack was out. Probably could have seen it sooner if I had know where to look. They are most common on the inner exhaust valve seat on cylinder #1 (or cylinder #6 which is basically them same area of the castings). Here are some pics of mine and another owners heads cracked in the exact same spot, same at Tim's. I also saw another owner's car that had a pin hole in the head that he only found with the head off and pressure tested it.

These are great pictures. Thanks.

[RFM]

If you cant find any trace of water in the engine oil (only slight traces of oil in cooling water) after several proper checks and the engine runs perfect without restriction of any kind, and the car is a Tiptronic, do not hesitate to check the ATF and Tiptronic oil exchanger/cooler as well, it's very uncommon but still possible under some circumstances. Once again, it's only a small chance but you can seek for ever before discovering the problem. Therefore it would be a shame to dismantle an engine. Hope it helps.