Old 911

[dirty dave]

Hey guys, I am new to this website and to Porsche ownership. I own a 1969 911 and would like to decode the vin, but the decoder doesn't like my 9 digit number. I want to know all that I can about this car, it will be taken down to bare metal and then restored.

[Loren]

:welcome:

Not a lot of info in the early cars VINs.

The first series of numbers ran from 68-69 and were comprised of a total of 8 (or 9) digits. The first two digits would tell the group, the third would reveal the year and the fourth would tell the exact model. The last four (or five) numbers are sequential build numbers.

An example would be 11802321.

This is a

11 – (911)

8 – (1968)

0 – (Coupe, S version)

2321 – Sequential Build Number

[therock88]

Hey guys, I am new to this website and to Porsche ownership. I own a 1969 911 and would like to decode the vin, but the decoder doesn't like my 9 digit number. I want to know all that I can about this car, it will be taken down to bare metal and then restored.

What is the VIN you are looking to decode? That will help.....

DC

[sports1944]

Dave I am having a similar problem. I have a 69 vin number119111217, and would like to find out how to decode it. Thanks for any help.

[Loren]

Dave I am having a similar problem. I have a 69 vin number119111217, and would like to find out how to decode it. Thanks for any help.

:welcome:

Look at my post two posts above yours. That is all the info you can get from the old VINs.

[sports1944]

Dave I am having a similar problem. I have a 69 vin number119111217, and would like to find out how to decode it. Thanks for any help.

:welcome:

Look at my post two posts above yours. That is all the info you can get from the old VINs.

Thanks Loren, I guess the confusion about my car is some sites show the vin number to be a 1968 car ?, and I'm trying to determine if the car is an "S" or "T" engine. Thanks again

[Loren]

Dave I am having a similar problem. I have a 69 vin number119111217, and would like to find out how to decode it. Thanks for any help.

:welcome:

Look at my post two posts above yours. That is all the info you can get from the old VINs.

Thanks Loren, I guess the confusion about my car is some sites show the vin number to be a 1968 car ?, and I'm trying to determine if the car is an "S" or "T" engine. Thanks again

119 would make it a 1969 car.

What the car came with and what it has now might be two different engines.

If you get me the serial number of the engine I can likely tell you what it started life as.

[clay5523]

I had a 68 911. Porsche did not ship any s models to the US in 68 as far as I know. There was a "T" for touring and a "L" for luxury I think.

[sports1944]

concensus is my car is a 1969 (vin 119111217). Now trying to decode numbers, I have to get number off engine this weekend to see what info that gives me, Thanks

[sports1944]

Hey guys, I am new to this website and to Porsche ownership. I own a 1969 911 and would like to decode the vin, but the decoder doesn't like my 9 digit number. I want to know all that I can about this car, it will be taken down to bare metal and then restored.

What is the VIN you are looking to decode? That will help.....

DC

I'm trying to decode vin #11 911 1217, Thanks

[NelsonMX]

Sorry I'm a bit late.....

For your VIN: 119111217

11 = 911

9 = 1969

1 = Coupe L or Luxury Model

11217 = Sequence or serial number usually 4 digits.....

If you have the engine # it will tell me what engine you have......7 digits starting with a 2,3, or 4

Rgds,

Bob

[sports1944]

Sorry I'm a bit late.....

For your VIN: 119111217

11 = 911

9 = 1969

1 = Coupe L or Luxury Model

11217 = Sequence or serial number usually 4 digits.....

If you have the engine # it will tell me what engine you have......7 digits starting with a 2,3, or 4

Rgds,

Bob

Engine is apart and out of car, I will get numbers off it tonight. I have noticed numbers on various parts, is the number on the block the correct set of numbers to use ? thanks for your reply and future help. Jim

[sports1944]

Bob, engine is out of car and apart. Is the number on the block the correct set of numbers to use. I also noticed numbers on the head. Thanks for your reply and future help, Jim

[NelsonMX]

Jim,

The number should be on the casting to the right of the cooling fan as you are looking at the engine. If memory serves me correctly it is on the fan mounting flange of the crankcase casting...7 digits....

Bob

Edited May 13, 2010 by NelsonMX

[sports1944]

Jim,

The number should be on the casting to the right of the cooling fan as you are looking at the engine. If memory serves me correctly it is on the fan mounting flange of the crankcase casting...7 digits....

Bob

Bob, the 7 digit number on the vertical casting on top of crankcase starts with a star followed by 6322321. Cold this be a newer engine in my 1969 Targa . Bottom of the crankcase has another number: 901 101 101 5R. Any ideas as to year and horsepower of this unit. Thanks Jim

[NelsonMX]

Jim,

Again sorry for the late reply.....

Yes it looks like your engine is a newer model....

From the serial number starting with 632 this indicates a 1972 911S engine or type 911/53 or/63 190 HP in stock set up....

This engine should have the MFI (Mechanical Fuel Injection), although a lot have been modified to carbs.

Also, another indication of an S engine is the red cooling shroud. That is they were red, now they have faded to more of a pink!!

Hope this is of some help...

Bob

PS By the way.....the 901 number on the crankcase is a casting number

Edited May 17, 2010 by NelsonMX

[sports1944]

Jim,

Again sorry for the late reply.....

Yes it looks like your engine is a newer model....

From the serial number starting with 632 this indicates a 1972 911S engine or type 911/53 or/63 190 HP in stock set up....

This engine should have the MFI (Mechanical Fuel Injection), although a lot have been modified to carbs.

Also, another indication of an S engine is the red cooling shroud. That is they were red, now they have faded to more of a pink!!

Hope this is of some help...

Bob

PS By the way.....the 901 number on the crankcase is a casting number

Bob, evidently this is one of those engines that was modified for carbs. I have a box with two complete sets of carbs. Did people install carbs instead of keeping fuel injection for horsepower reasons ? Thank you very much for researching and advising me on my car & engine. This car was modified many years ago, it evidently has a modified engine, fiberglas front & rear spoilers, recaro front seats, "S" type Fuch ? wheels. Since the car is not 100% original it probably has less value to a collector, but the period upgrades make it interesting for us. Once again many thanks Jim

[IXXI]

Hello

I deciper the VIN 11-9-1-1-1217 as follows:

Model; 911, Year; 1969, Engine; T ( 901/03 or 901/13 if Sportomatic), Body; Targa Body Porsche/Reuter, Count; 1207 but i might be wrong....

As far I remember the 69 Bodystyles are; 0 for Reuter Coupe, 1 for Reuter Targa, 2 for Karmann Coupe and 3 for Karmann Targa

The engine# 6-3-2-2321 doesn´t fit Year 1969, if 911T then the engine # would start with 6-1-9, if a 911E then it would start with 6-2-9 and if S then it would start with 6-3-9.

As you see you will find the engine code is 6 for the base engine, 1-2-3 for the version T-E-S wih refers direct into the numbers from the chassis digit 4 and the 9 is for the year followed by the 4 digit counting number. Btw in 1969 the 4 is for the 914/6 T engine.

So 6-3-2-2321 sould be said 2,4S Block and the 5R case fits the 72 Year as Porsche made the changeover in late 72 to 7R case with the additional reinforcments and the extra screw behind the flywheel. Most 7R blocks in MY73 where used on the 2,7 engines but soon Porsche replaced the 5R case on the 2,4S as well, leaving the remaining 5R cases for E and T engines.

If you look close you will find on early 72 engines one Case half to be a 4R and the other to be a 5R

However the 2,4S engines are "rare" as in 71/72 we had a worldwide recession (go figure every decade has a recession) wich didn´t help the sale of the expensive S version but boostet sales from the 911T and in 1973 the Carrera RS made the S "obselete" wich droped the 2,4S sales further.

MFI engines made more Power for less fuel consumption thats why Porsche changed the 911S in late 1967 to MFI gaining 10 HP over the Weber Setup and lowering the fuel consumption around 20% on the race tracks. Wich was a huge advantage on Endurance Races.

Famous Swiss Racer/Engineneer Michael May proved that with a 550 Race Car wich impressed Ferry Porsche to invest in Port Injection and quit the promissing but expensive direct injection prototypes.

However Porsche/Bosch needed another 10 Years to push the MFI into a drivable 85 DIN HP/L Streetengine while Daimler Benz was satisfied to push 65 DIN HP/L from ther MFI cars. OTOH the Alfa Montreal with the Spica Injection pushed nearly 90 DIN HP from each Liter displacement

In the same Time US Muscle Cars engines where proud to find one SAE HP per CI in there 104 Octane Race engines wich equals some 50 DIN HP/L wich is nice but ROW Race engines on 104 Octane pushed over 110 DIN HP/L with Carbs and up to 120 DIN HP/L with Race MFI (Slidervalve & high point injection). Just numbers to give an idear why Porsche couldn´t keep the simple Carb Setup as the race competition mandatet MFI to win races. And the 911 was designed to be competitive at least the S versions...

It also helped on passing the new Smog regulations except the California Smog Law wich killed the 911S versions in the US but some Porsche costumers would pick a 911S in US Spec at the factory and ship it to the US on there own so there are some 68 911S in the US but outside California EPA Law.

IMSMR in 1969 the 911S with MFI passed the EPA withhout the additional air pump from the 68 L Versions.

The MFI has some weak points the first ist that the heat up regulation didn´t work with stop&go traffic wich tends to flood the engine with fuel and beside fouling the plugs and pushing the MPG into V8 Theritory it contaminatet the engine oil and fuel does not lube as good as oil. So in the US many S owners who never had a cahnce to warm up the engine within 20-30 miles spun a Rod Bearing after pushing the Engine to the limit with to much fuel in the oil. However most Porsche S Drivers where sensible and watched the Cauges as the constealltion; Full Oil level & under 80°C Celsius and low Oilpressure relatet to the Rev level showed that someting was fishy with the Oil. Most tehn pushed the car gently to heat the engine beyound 100°C oiltemperture wich helped deconatminating the fuel from the oil as the fuelvapor would be sucked out from the System into the Combustion. In the mid 70´s the new Oil generation also added to survive fuel contamination.

The other Problem of the MFI ist that rising the engines performance would need to stick to known MFI Setups or develope a suiting Mastercam for the MFI Govenour. Wich would blow the budgets from most Tuners in the 70´s even Porsche made Inhouse race engines by skiping the Bosch MFI and converting to the easier to tune Kugelfischer MFI oder going back to Weber Race carbs form the Twin Plug Race engines.

However the 2,2 S engines where very critical to Fuel delivery problems when Porsche changed to the 2,4S setup they lowered the compression to average fuel quality and the 2,4S is not to critical with the fuel delivery and the 2,4 also works with average spark plugs.

Beside the Case Numbers the S versions have following upgrades over the E/T Versions:

S Spec Cams

S Spec Cam rocker arms with straight reinforcement ripp

S Spec heads with larger valves and perfect CC'ed Chambers and also perfect even flowing intake ports

S Spec Valve springs

S Spec Piston&Cylinders

S Spec Crank with counterwights (wich where also used in E)

S Spec Alloy Pressure Plate (yet only works with 911 or 915 Trany)

S Spec Distributor

S Spec MFI Manifolds & Throttlebodys

S Spec MFI Pump

S Spec external Oil cooler setup ( wich also came with some E Specs)

So the value from a S engine is based on what comes with the original S Spec parts and as Porsche engines are built like LEGO you can mix an S case with a T base engine and it will work on the other end you can use a T engine Case to build up a S-Spec engine.

So the Value from a 911B Car today is mostly based on condition and matching #. Most early 911 went from Drivers to Collectors item beside some pre 67 SWB fitting the FIA K Race Spec who see regular track time somtimes pushed hard to keep up with the Lotuses from the other Class.

A 69 T Targa with an "wrong" S engine will not be a good collectors choice but will be a fun driver.

Other things to look at is if the High performance items are Porsche or from a period Tuner yet some 911T came from the factory with the S Option Handling Pack adding the S Brakes with ventet discs in the rear and most important the S Alloy front calipers, also the S package added the S stabilizer and Koni or Bilstein/De Carbon shocks some come with Boge Niveaumatic up front and in 69 the S Handling Package added 5,5x15" Mahle or 5,5x15" Fuchs with 165/15 or 5,5x14" Fuchs with 185/70/14. The 6" Fuchs with Tubeless Tires where aditonal upgrade for extra bucks. Some Porsche Buyer didn´t trust the new tubeless tire technology so even some 69S came with the traditional 5,5 Fuchs or the even lighter Mahle Gasburners.

There was also the S Appieriance/Comfort Group wich added the S Body Trim, E/S Instrumentation, S Interour with wool carpet and Leather Steering wheel rim, Dual Trunk illumination, Engine bay Illumination, Automatic Seat belts in front and mostly factory Recaro with rail mountet seat belt anchors and reinforced outer seat rail carrier and also added 5,5" alloys by choice.

I would suggest to look trough the car and make pictures to identify the parts and also to run a factory cardex yet Porsche rised the price over years and closed the Loopehole to ask Porsche Classic for delivery specs. The Factory Cardex will not add much value to the actual situation but will give you an overview from the delivery status including built date, delivery date and saleing dealer. However for the factory cardex you need to pick up the "hidden" Body number behind the right hand kneepad under the Ventilationcontrol/Radio cutout.

Grüsse from FRG

Edited May 19, 2010 by IXXI

[sports1944]

Hello

I deciper the VIN 11-9-1-1-1217 as follows:

Model; 911, Year; 1969, Engine; T ( 901/03 or 901/13 if Sportomatic), Body; Targa Body Porsche/Reuter, Count; 1207 but i might be wrong....

As far I remember the 69 Bodystyles are; 0 for Reuter Coupe, 1 for Reuter Targa, 2 for Karmann Coupe and 3 for Karmann Targa

The engine# 6-3-2-2321 doesn´t fit Year 1969, if 911T then the engine # would start with 6-1-9, if a 911E then it would start with 6-2-9 and if S then it would start with 6-3-9.

As you see you will find the engine code is 6 for the base engine, 1-2-3 for the version T-E-S wih refers direct into the numbers from the chassis digit 4 and the 9 is for the year followed by the 4 digit counting number. Btw in 1969 the 4 is for the 914/6 T engine.

So 6-3-2-2321 sould be said 2,4S Block and the 5R case fits the 72 Year as Porsche made the changeover in late 72 to 7R case with the additional reinforcments and the extra screw behind the flywheel. Most 7R blocks in MY73 where used on the 2,7 engines but soon Porsche replaced the 5R case on the 2,4S as well, leaving the remaining 5R cases for E and T engines.

If you look close you will find on early 72 engines one Case half to be a 4R and the other to be a 5R

However the 2,4S engines are "rare" as in 71/72 we had a worldwide recession (go figure every decade has a recession) wich didn´t help the sale of the expensive S version but boostet sales from the 911T and in 1973 the Carrera RS made the S "obselete" wich droped the 2,4S sales further.

MFI engines made more Power for less fuel consumption thats why Porsche changed the 911S in late 1967 to MFI gaining 10 HP over the Weber Setup and lowering the fuel consumption around 20% on the race tracks. Wich was a huge advantage on Endurance Races.

Famous Swiss Racer/Engineneer Michael May proved that with a 550 Race Car wich impressed Ferry Porsche to invest in Port Injection and quit the promissing but expensive direct injection prototypes.

However Porsche/Bosch needed another 10 Years to push the MFI into a drivable 85 DIN HP/L Streetengine while Daimler Benz was satisfied to push 65 DIN HP/L from ther MFI cars. OTOH the Alfa Montreal with the Spica Injection pushed nearly 90 DIN HP from each Liter displacement

In the same Time US Muscle Cars engines where proud to find one SAE HP per CI in there 104 Octane Race engines wich equals some 50 DIN HP/L wich is nice but ROW Race engines on 104 Octane pushed over 110 DIN HP/L with Carbs and up to 120 DIN HP/L with Race MFI (Slidervalve & high point injection). Just numbers to give an idear why Porsche couldn´t keep the simple Carb Setup as the race competition mandatet MFI to win races. And the 911 was designed to be competitive at least the S versions...

It also helped on passing the new Smog regulations except the California Smog Law wich killed the 911S versions in the US but some Porsche costumers would pick a 911S in US Spec at the factory and ship it to the US on there own so there are some 68 911S in the US but outside California EPA Law.

IMSMR in 1969 the 911S with MFI passed the EPA withhout the additional air pump from the 68 L Versions.

The MFI has some weak points the first ist that the heat up regulation didn´t work with stop&go traffic wich tends to flood the engine with fuel and beside fouling the plugs and pushing the MPG into V8 Theritory it contaminatet the engine oil and fuel does not lube as good as oil. So in the US many S owners who never had a cahnce to warm up the engine within 20-30 miles spun a Rod Bearing after pushing the Engine to the limit with to much fuel in the oil. However most Porsche S Drivers where sensible and watched the Cauges as the constealltion; Full Oil level & under 80°C Celsius and low Oilpressure relatet to the Rev level showed that someting was fishy with the Oil. Most tehn pushed the car gently to heat the engine beyound 100°C oiltemperture wich helped deconatminating the fuel from the oil as the fuelvapor would be sucked out from the System into the Combustion. In the mid 70´s the new Oil generation also added to survive fuel contamination.

The other Problem of the MFI ist that rising the engines performance would need to stick to known MFI Setups or develope a suiting Mastercam for the MFI Govenour. Wich would blow the budgets from most Tuners in the 70´s even Porsche made Inhouse race engines by skiping the Bosch MFI and converting to the easier to tune Kugelfischer MFI oder going back to Weber Race carbs form the Twin Plug Race engines.

However the 2,2 S engines where very critical to Fuel delivery problems when Porsche changed to the 2,4S setup they lowered the compression to average fuel quality and the 2,4S is not to critical with the fuel delivery and the 2,4 also works with average spark plugs.

Beside the Case Numbers the S versions have following upgrades over the E/T Versions:

S Spec Cams

S Spec Cam rocker arms with straight reinforcement ripp

S Spec heads with larger valves and perfect CC'ed Chambers and also perfect even flowing intake ports

S Spec Valve springs

S Spec Piston&Cylinders

S Spec Crank with counterwights (wich where also used in E)

S Spec Alloy Pressure Plate (yet only works with 911 or 915 Trany)

S Spec Distributor

S Spec MFI Manifolds & Throttlebodys

S Spec MFI Pump

S Spec external Oil cooler setup ( wich also came with some E Specs)

So the value from a S engine is based on what comes with the original S Spec parts and as Porsche engines are built like LEGO you can mix an S case with a T base engine and it will work on the other end you can use a T engine Case to build up a S-Spec engine.

So the Value from a 911B Car today is mostly based on condition and matching #. Most early 911 went from Drivers to Collectors item beside some pre 67 SWB fitting the FIA K Race Spec who see regular track time somtimes pushed hard to keep up with the Lotuses from the other Class.

A 69 T Targa with an "wrong" S engine will not be a good collectors choice but will be a fun driver.

Other things to look at is if the High performance items are Porsche or from a period Tuner yet some 911T came from the factory with the S Option Handling Pack adding the S Brakes with ventet discs in the rear and most important the S Alloy front calipers, also the S package added the S stabilizer and Koni or Bilstein/De Carbon shocks some come with Boge Niveaumatic up front and in 69 the S Handling Package added 5,5x15" Mahle or 5,5x15" Fuchs with 165/15 or 5,5x14" Fuchs with 185/70/14. The 6" Fuchs with Tubeless Tires where aditonal upgrade for extra bucks. Some Porsche Buyer didn´t trust the new tubeless tire technology so even some 69S came with the traditional 5,5 Fuchs or the even lighter Mahle Gasburners.

There was also the S Appieriance/Comfort Group wich added the S Body Trim, E/S Instrumentation, S Interour with wool carpet and Leather Steering wheel rim, Dual Trunk illumination, Engine bay Illumination, Automatic Seat belts in front and mostly factory Recaro with rail mountet seat belt anchors and reinforced outer seat rail carrier and also added 5,5" alloys by choice.

I would suggest to look trough the car and make pictures to identify the parts and also to run a factory cardex yet Porsche rised the price over years and closed the Loopehole to ask Porsche Classic for delivery specs. The Factory Cardex will not add much value to the actual situation but will give you an overview from the delivery status including built date, delivery date and saleing dealer. However for the factory cardex you need to pick up the "hidden" Body number behind the right hand kneepad under the Ventilationcontrol/Radio cutout.

Grüsse from FRG

Grusse, thank you very much for your very informative reply about our 1969 Porsche. I will slowly go through the car and photograph all details and get all numbers. I will also write down all engine part numbers, since engine is partially apart. The more we learn about the car, the more interested we (me and my 18 year old son) become in wanting to learm even more and realize that while maybe not a purist collector car, it will become a fun car to drive and representative of early modification work to upgrade a car for fun local racing events. Many Thanks for all your effort and information that you have shared with us. I'll keep you posted on additional info that we uncover. Best Regards Jim from Pa in USA

[madem]

Guys , I have a Porsche 911 Targa 1974 , Vin 9114110426 . Will be possible to know the original color ?

I'm the four owner (I'm in Brazil) , the last two owners made some very nice upgrades like 78 3.2 engine and 89 G50 transmission , also new Fuchs wheels, black rubbers , etc. I do not know if the original color is black ... any way to discover ?

Thanks !

[Loren]

:welcome:

Only Porsche could tell you for sure what color the car was ordered with.

The should be a metal plate in the front trunk with the paint code on it.

COLOR SELECTION EFFECTIVE WITH 1974 MODELS

Standard colors beginning with 1974 models:

027 India red

042 Peru red

11 7 Light yellow

137 Yellow green

156 Orange

336 Mexico blue

408 Cockney brown

516 Sahara beige

908 Grand-Prix white

Optional colors beginning with 1974 models:

009 Carmine red

024 Fraise

025 Aubergine

116 Signal orange

139 Blossom yellow

213 Irish green

227 Light green

253 Space green

328 Gulf blue

341 Lilac

351 Dark blue

354 Acid blue

414 Olive

700 Black

Metallic colors:

036 Salmon dust

250 Silver-green diamond

335 Gemini metallic

406 Comet shower

432 Copper diamond

936 Silver metallic

249 viper green diamond

334 metallic blue

[therock88]

Guys , I have a Porsche 911 Targa 1974 , Vin 9114110426 . Will be possible to know the original color ?

I'm the four owner (I'm in Brazil) , the last two owners made some very nice upgrades like 78 3.2 engine and 89 G50 transmission , also new Fuchs wheels, black rubbers , etc. I do not know if the original color is black ... any way to discover ?

Thanks !

Don't think the VIN is going to help you here. Their was a paint sticker that indicated the color, but likely gone with the updates. You can probably look under the mat in the bonnet and tell...May even have to sand a little to tell. Once you get close you can see what was available that year.

Good Luck!

DC

[madem]

THANKS LOREN !

:welcome:

Only Porsche could tell you for sure what color the car was ordered with.

The should be a metal plate in the front trunk with the paint code on it.

COLOR SELECTION EFFECTIVE WITH 1974 MODELS

Standard colors beginning with 1974 models:

027 India red

042 Peru red

11 7 Light yellow

137 Yellow green

156 Orange

336 Mexico blue

408 Cockney brown

516 Sahara beige

908 Grand-Prix white

Optional colors beginning with 1974 models:

009 Carmine red

024 Fraise

025 Aubergine

116 Signal orange

139 Blossom yellow

213 Irish green

227 Light green

253 Space green

328 Gulf blue

341 Lilac

351 Dark blue

354 Acid blue

414 Olive

700 Black

Metallic colors:

036 Salmon dust

250 Silver-green diamond

335 Gemini metallic

406 Comet shower

432 Copper diamond

936 Silver metallic

249 viper green diamond

334 metallic blue

[madem]

THANKS DC !

Guys , I have a Porsche 911 Targa 1974 , Vin 9114110426 . Will be possible to know the original color ?

I'm the four owner (I'm in Brazil) , the last two owners made some very nice upgrades like 78 3.2 engine and 89 G50 transmission , also new Fuchs wheels, black rubbers , etc. I do not know if the original color is black ... any way to discover ?

Thanks !

Don't think the VIN is going to help you here. Their was a paint sticker that indicated the color, but likely gone with the updates. You can probably look under the mat in the bonnet and tell...May even have to sand a little to tell. Once you get close you can see what was available that year.

Good Luck!

DC