This Should Be Illegal

[number 3]

2010 911 S4 Cab sport chrono, sport exhaust.

Placing it in sport plus and pushing down on the pedal is the most fun that I have ever had in a car. Period. It actually makes you look better and feel better than you really are.

Any of you interested in a unique and wild ride - go to a Porsche store and try one with this setup. You will not be disappointed.

[number9ine]

2010 911 S4 Cab sport chrono, sport exhaust.

Placing it in sport plus and pushing down on the pedal is the most fun that I have ever had in a car. Period. It actually makes you look better and feel better than you really are.

Any of you interested in a unique and wild ride - go to a Porsche store and try one with this setup. You will not be disappointed.

Depending on the speed achieved, it probably is illegal. :)

I have yet to try the PDK, might go and kick some tires the next weekend with nice weather and free time to spare. Did you try the launch control? I bet that would make your salesman sweat...

[number 3]

Oh, I forgot the most important part the PDK! I haven't used the launch control yet because I have only <1000 miles and both the manual and Loren insist that revs be limited to 4500 for first 2000 miles and launch control is at 6500. My dealer says 300 miles is breakin period so maybe I'll split the difference and try it soon.

It's not mentioned anywhere but you only get the blip on downshift if you have sport chrono and PDK in sport plus. The sport exhaust sound on the downshift blip is worth the admission price.

[fast eddie]

Oh, I forgot the most important part the PDK! I haven't used the launch control yet because I have only <1000 miles and both the manual and Loren insist that revs be limited to 4500 for first 2000 miles and launch control is at 6500. My dealer says 300 miles is breakin period so maybe I'll split the difference and try it soon.

It's not mentioned anywhere but you only get the blip on downshift if you have sport chrono and PDK in sport plus. The sport exhaust sound on the downshift blip is worth the admission price.

No thanks, with all respect.

I'll keep my clutch.

Ed

[eva350]

No thanks, with all respect.

I'll keep my clutch.

Ed

Same here. Manuals make me more connected to the car. Almost got PDK as I was infatuated with the technology. So so glad wife talked me out of it. for ONCE, she was right. :)

[355bhp]

No thanks, with all respect.

I'll keep my clutch.

Ed

Me too. My left foot likes to stay busy.

[number 3]

Fair enough.

In favor of PDK:

• It's fun.
• When not thinking about clutch you can spend more time piloting the car and enjoying the experience. More connected to the car not less.
• It's fun.
• Ferrari no longer offers manual trans at all.
• It's fun.

Things that you can do with your left foot:

Count to five.

.

Edited March 18, 2010 by number 3

[number9ine]

Fair enough.

In favor of PDK:

• It's fun.
• When not thinking about clutch you can spend more time piloting the car and enjoying the experience. More connected to the car not less.
• It's fun.
• Ferrari no longer offers manual trans at all.
• It's fun.

Things that you can do with your left foot:

Count to five.

.

Let's not get carried away. The double-clutch gearboxes I have tried (DSG/S-Tronic, PDK in Panamera) are trick and even enjoyable, but in favor of the manual transmission:

• You're more connected to the car when you're controlling your torque instead of letting the car guess when you want it served up, regardless of how good the car's guess is. Flappy paddles (or toggles) give you some of that, but not all of it.
• A good clutch foot comes from using all of your senses to know just when to engage. It's becoming a lost art, many people have never driven a manual car and couldn't if they had to.
• Ferrari can offer whatever they like for a transmission, I'm not buying. Modern Ferraris are overpriced, oversized, with loud looks and a pretentious air IMO. Fine driving machines though they may be, we're on a Porsche forum.
• For many drivers, putting it in "D" seems to disengage their active awareness, inviting distracted driving, not checking mirrors, lane drift, panic braking, and other dangerous habits. My DD is an automatic wagon, and I dearly wish it was optioned with a stick. In my automagic, sound-deadened, leather-coated, iPod-equipped cocoon I feel less connected to the 2-ton mass that carries me to and fro, and while I actively maintain my situational awareness there's far less incentive for me to do so.
• Stick is fun. There's so much reward in maximizing your powerband, making smooth, quick shifts, grabbing a lower gear for a pass, and heel-toe work in the twisties.

There is absolutely no question that a manual has built-in driver involvement that can't be matched by any auto or automanual tranny. One day soon, rowing your own gears may go the way of the dodo--just like controlling your own car on a freeway, or deciding how fast it goes. I prefer a stronger blend of human in the driving equation.

Mark

Edited March 18, 2010 by number9ine

[number 3]

Mark:

Yes, manual shifting will soon be a lost art like faxing was once way cool. I think the idea of manual shifting is very much like in a sailboat where you can have a rudder or a wheel. Many believe that a rudder gives better feedback/control?

I question your statement about controlling torque and maximizing the powerband. You do know that in Sport Plus mode all upshifts are manual so when are you not controlling powerband? So main difference is only engagement/disengagement of gears and during manual shifts there is a period, no matter how brief, where there is NO power to the wheels, right?

And if someone is distracted by playing with their ipod/phone/nav/whatever then maybe they shouldn't be driving.

Edited March 18, 2010 by number 3

[fast eddie]

Mark:

Yes, manual shifting will soon be a lost art like faxing was once way cool. I think the idea of manual shifting is very much like in a sailboat where you can have a rudder or a wheel. Many believe that a rudder gives better feedback/control?

I question your statement about controlling torque and maximizing the powerband. You do know that in Sport Plus mode all upshifts are manual so when are you not controlling powerband? So main difference is only engagement/disengagement of gears and during manual shifts there is a period, no matter how brief, where there is NO power to the wheels, right?

And if someone is distracted by playing with their ipod/phone/nav/whatever then maybe they shouldn't be driving.

I AM A ANALOG MAN IN A DIGITAL WORLD!!!!!!!!

Driving a PDK is so easy....even a caveman can do it.

Ed

[number9ine]

Mark:

Yes, manual shifting will soon be a lost art like faxing was once way cool. I think the idea of manual shifting is very much like in a sailboat where you can have a rudder or a wheel. Many believe that a rudder gives better feedback/control?

I question your statement about controlling torque and maximizing the powerband. You do know that in Sport Plus mode all upshifts are manual so when are you not controlling powerband? So main difference is only engagement/disengagement of gears and during manual shifts there is a period, no matter how brief, where there is NO power to the wheels, right?

And if someone is distracted by playing with their ipod/phone/nav/whatever then maybe they shouldn't be driving.

In case it's unclear, the argument I'm making isn't the performance potential of manual versus PDK (or rudder v. wheel as you'd have it), but the level of interaction between the tool and its user. In any system there needs to be a balance between simplicity, ease of use, and control. Manual is my tool of choice because a) it's simpler, B) it has a steeper learning curve that requires (fun!) practice to master, and c) it allows more control over the driving experience. I'd argue that the mark of a true enthusiast is their desire to extract the full potential from the tools of their choice. Since the PDK's ease of use has been inferred here as superior to that of a manual, that might also infer that a manual requires that much more involvement and dedication to perform well.

There's no need to question my statement about torque since I qualified it by saying an automanual gives you some control, just not all. With PDK, I can't finesse the throttle and clutch because I have no control over the clutch. Intangible as this is to some it's a quality I appreciate, and it adds to driver involvement. I'll also note that PDK/Tip in any mode will handily upshift without your consent at redline, which may or may not be a good thing. An illustrative example: my wife's tip Boxster upshifts on the trackout through the carousel at Watkins Glen. In less than ideal conditions, the sudden absence of torque under lateral load could result in an unhappy off-track event. There's absolutely nothing that will stop the car from doing this, because when driven properly the car is at redline every time. I haven't driven a PDK on the track yet, perhaps its ratios obviate this behavior. Its software does not.

Agreed 100% on the distracted driving. But as we remove ourselves from the mechanics of driving, we also remove the incentive to pay attention while doing so. We can reactively respond to the safety consequences with legislation and enforcement, or we can proactively respond by driving cars with a level of involvement proportional to the risk of piloting heavy metal objects at high speed.

Mark

[phillipj]

I see both points and I have driven both... The PDK is awesome... My six speed manual is awsome.. I say what ever you like is the better option..

Just trying to mediate what seems to be a sensitive topic.. (Notice he has both hands on the wheel.. Must be a PDK...)

Edited March 18, 2010 by phillipj

[number9ine]

I see both points and I have driven both... The PDK is awesome... My six speed manual is awsome.. I say what ever you like is the better option..

Just trying to mediate what seems to be a sensitive topic.. (Notice he has both hands on the wheel.. Must be a PDK...)

To each their own, of course. I just love arguing my preference. :)

I don't know about you other six-speed drivers, but when I'm not shifting both hands are on the wheel. loose but steady grip, 10 and 2.

[355bhp]

I see both points and I have driven both... The PDK is awesome... My six speed manual is awsome.. I say what ever you like is the better option..

Just trying to mediate what seems to be a sensitive topic.. (Notice he has both hands on the wheel.. Must be a PDK...)

To each their own, of course. I just love arguing my preference. :)

I don't know about you other six-speed drivers, but when I'm not shifting both hands are on the wheel. loose but steady grip, 10 and 2.

Talk about involved: my hands were full today, as I descended an unfamiliar mountain road down to Socal's Pacific Coast Hwy. The road had posted 15 and 10 mph turns requiring heel-toe downshifts to first gear. But I became really busy, when I encountered a 997.2 Turbo coming up the other way, and of course I had to wave to the other driver. I suppose that would be the one scenario in favor of the Porschedoppleklutchenpopper. Betcha the Turbo driver was therefore lots less busy than I was, but I couldn't tell, because his or her windows were buttoned up tight, while mine were down and the sunroof open to better enjoy the beautiful Spring day and all the self-induced (no robots please) blipping noises echoing off the canyon walls. Oh, and was THAT ever fun!

Edited March 19, 2010 by 355bhp

[fast eddie]

I see both points and I have driven both... The PDK is awesome... My six speed manual is awsome.. I say what ever you like is the better option..

Just trying to mediate what seems to be a sensitive topic.. (Notice he has both hands on the wheel.. Must be a PDK...)

To each their own, of course. I just love arguing my preference.

I don't know about you other six-speed drivers, but when I'm not shifting both hands are on the wheel. loose but steady grip, 10 and 2.

Talk about involved: my hands were full today, as I descended an unfamiliar mountain road down to Socal's Pacific Coast Hwy. The road had posted 15 and 10 mph turns requiring heel-toe downshifts to first gear. But I became really busy, when I encountered a 997.2 Turbo coming up the other way, and of course I had to wave to the other driver. I suppose that would be the one scenario in favor of the Porschedoppleklutchenpopper. Betcha the Turbo driver was therefore lots less busy than I was, but I couldn't tell, because his or her windows were buttoned up tight, while mine were down and the sunroof open to better enjoy the beautiful Spring day and all the self-induced (no robots please) blipping noises echoing off the canyon walls. Oh, and was THAT ever fun!

You dog!!!!

SOCAL IS SWEEEET!!!!!!

Here in SOFLA we get excited,,,,,allright,,,,,,on ramp to I-95!!

Hey, how about that ride to 29 Palms east of Ontario????

I've kept a CA MD license for 20 years without working there outside of the military. $600 every 2 years.

My wife vetoed a job in San Diego 10 years ago, don't know if I can forgive her.

At least I can keep my guns in FL.

The most beautiful state in the union, keep it out of the trees!!

Ed

[355bhp]

You dog!!!!

SOCAL IS SWEEEET!!!!!!

Here in SOFLA we get excited,,,,,allright,,,,,,on ramp to I-95!!

Hey, how about that ride to 29 Palms east of Ontario????

I've kept a CA MD license for 20 years without working there outside of the military. $600 every 2 years.

My wife vetoed a job in San Diego 10 years ago, don't know if I can forgive her.

At least I can keep my guns in FL.

The most beautiful state in the union, keep it out of the trees!!

Ed

Ed: Just PM'd you on this.