*HELP* BoxterS 98, roof will not open

[1schoir]

Maurice

I set the top up as you described - in the service position.

Then pushing the dash button the top closed, and the dash light went out briefly (I think I removed my finger from the lever switch on the motor - the top open idiot light come back on and even when again pressing the lever switch and closing the latch the light remains on). And the motor will not function.

OK, so I wanted to open the top and rerun this experiment. So I removed the micro switch from the B-Pillar, in order to open the top - the motor runs but nothing is moving.(I checked to make sure the cables are in the motor)

There have been no unusual noises or motion during this operation.

Could I have run off the other end of the 50 tooth gear - if I did I guess the V Lever will have some freedom in it, I'll investigate that.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Paul:

If the motor is running AND the cables are spinning BUT the V-levers are not turning, then it does sound like it went past the 50th tooth in the half-moon gear.

The reason you did not hear any loud noises is because, IIRC, you now don't have the black "hydraulic" pushrods connected. That means that the black pushrods will not pull the half-moon gear back with the usual loud bang.

To investigate further, you can either try to reverse the direction of the electric motor by manipulating the B-pillar microswitch while the switch on the dash is pressed or, if it won't spin, use the cordless drill to move the V-levers in the opposite direction, until the teeth engage again.

Regards, Maurice.

[pzinszer]

Maurice

I set the top up as you described - in the service position.

Then pushing the dash button the top closed, and the dash light went out briefly (I think I removed my finger from the lever switch on the motor - the top open idiot light come back on and even when again pressing the lever switch and closing the latch the light remains on). And the motor will not function.

OK, so I wanted to open the top and rerun this experiment. So I removed the micro switch from the B-Pillar, in order to open the top - the motor runs but nothing is moving.(I checked to make sure the cables are in the motor)

There have been no unusual noises or motion during this operation.

Could I have run off the other end of the 50 tooth gear - if I did I guess the V Lever will have some freedom in it, I'll investigate that.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Paul:

If the motor is running AND the cables are spinning BUT the V-levers are not turning, then it does sound like it went past the 50th tooth in the half-moon gear.

The reason you did not hear any loud noises is because, IIRC, you now don't have the black "hydraulic" pushrods connected. That means that the black pushrods will not pull the half-moon gear back with the usual loud bang.

To investigate further, you can either try to reverse the direction of the electric motor by manipulating the B-pillar microswitch while the switch on the dash is pressed or, if it won't spin, use the cordless drill to move the V-levers in the opposite direction, until the teeth engage again.

Regards, Maurice.

Hello Maurice

Let me start with my most recent activities.

With the top in the service position, switch attached to the B-Pillar and using a long thin stick as the shim between the clam shell and the frame (this was much better than trying to use my hand, because my focus was strictly forward) for the lever switch on top of the motor. I pushed the button on the dash and the top closed perfectly (removing the stick with about 1/2" clearance for the top to close). And the most remarkable part - the idiot light "Top Open" light went OUT. I latched the top (thinking it might be part of the closing process), then open the latch and pushed the open button - the top open light came back on - the motor did not run. That is where things are right now - so advice from this point would be appreciated.

Now for the interm - remember the motor ran but there was no motion - both V levers were free/loose, so using the drill the left side rethreaded with no problems - the right would not(this side was the problem before), and the cable contorted like a snake looking for a victom to squeeze, looping around and slipping/releasing the energy at the point where the cable joins the first spriral gear.

I have been here before so, I removed the right transmission, took it apart, cleaned it and started to test it. Can you handle some pictures? - well, here they come.

First picture is the right transmission, upside down (sorry) the end with the 2 bolt holes are forward on the car, the top bolt hole is lowest in the picture and is hard to see on the car particularly when looking from above. The large V bat wings are the top of the V Lever at the positions that it loses it's gearing, the arrows show the direction of rotation of the gear when engaged and the forward (clockwise) reverse (anticlockwise) refer to the direction that the drill must be turning.

The second and third pictures show the 50 tooth gear and what I believe is the culprit for not 'rethreading'.

The picture does not show it well, but the right first tooth is rather polished.

For the third picture, looking from the other side the polished tooth is now on the left side.

The polished tooth is larger than the partial tooth on the opposite side - the smaller tooth fed into the gears easily.

In 'playing' with this gear, I noticed that when it would jam, if I tried again but 'reoriented ' the teeth it would sometimes catch, I also believe that the speed of the drill maybe too fast and a slower cable speed may help. So next time it goes off the 50th tooth this option 1. Option 2 is to disconnect the arm going forward to the top at the bolt and rethread the gear from the other side, option 3 ... filing the tooth. Option 4 has something to do with dynamite. I do understand why they went to a B version transmission.

Maurice, I am sure you have notice that I am not able to multi-task (notice my finger on the lever on the motor and watch the top close and stop pushing the button on the dash and watch for the 'top open' light - I was unable to do it -the long stick shim going up to the front seat aided this operation greatly). Well, as it relates to measuring and matching both sides to next use the motor - following your diagram and measuring up from the center of the ball to the rubber on the edge of the frame required 2 hands and lots of adjusting for sight of the tape - top and bottom. I tried using a carpenters tape, pulling the L at the end of the tape on the bottom of the ball and reading the top was easier for me (I adjusted for metrics and diameter of the ball - but I think what matters is that both sides are the same). Picture 4 is my wife measuring the distance from the ball to the rubber on the frame.

Again thank you, advice would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Notice that I have also learned to downsize picture sizes - will it stick? Not likely.

[1schoir]

Hello Maurice

Let me start with my most recent activities.

With the top in the service position, switch attached to the B-Pillar and using a long thin stick as the shim between the clam shell and the frame (this was much better than trying to use my hand, because my focus was strictly forward) for the lever switch on top of the motor. I pushed the button on the dash and the top closed perfectly (removing the stick with about 1/2" clearance for the top to close). And the most remarkable part - the idiot light "Top Open" light went OUT. I latched the top (thinking it might be part of the closing process), then open the latch and pushed the open button - the top open light came back on - the motor did not run. That is where things are right now - so advice from this point would be appreciated.

Now for the interm - remember the motor ran but there was no motion - both V levers were free/loose, so using the drill the left side rethreaded with no problems - the right would not(this side was the problem before), and the cable contorted like a snake looking for a victom to squeeze, looping around and slipping/releasing the energy at the point where the cable joins the first spriral gear.

I have been here before so, I removed the right transmission, took it apart, cleaned it and started to test it. Can you handle some pictures? - well, here they come.

First picture is the right transmission, upside down (sorry) the end with the 2 bolt holes are forward on the car, the top bolt hole is lowest in the picture and is hard to see on the car particularly when looking from above. The large V bat wings are the top of the V Lever at the positions that it loses it's gearing, the arrows show the direction of rotation of the gear when engaged and the forward (clockwise) reverse (anticlockwise) refer to the direction that the drill must be turning.

The second and third pictures show the 50 tooth gear and what I believe is the culprit for not 'rethreading'.

The picture does not show it well, but the right first tooth is rather polished.

For the third picture, looking from the other side the polished tooth is now on the left side.

The polished tooth is larger than the partial tooth on the opposite side - the smaller tooth fed into the gears easily.

In 'playing' with this gear, I noticed that when it would jam, if I tried again but 'reoriented ' the teeth it would sometimes catch, I also believe that the speed of the drill maybe too fast and a slower cable speed may help. So next time it goes off the 50th tooth this option 1. Option 2 is to disconnect the arm going forward to the top at the bolt and rethread the gear from the other side, option 3 ... filing the tooth. Option 4 has something to do with dynamite. I do understand why they went to a B version transmission.

Maurice, I am sure you have notice that I am not able to multi-task (notice my finger on the lever on the motor and watch the top close and stop pushing the button on the dash and watch for the 'top open' light - I was unable to do it -the long stick shim going up to the front seat aided this operation greatly). Well, as it relates to measuring and matching both sides to next use the motor - following your diagram and measuring up from the center of the ball to the rubber on the edge of the frame required 2 hands and lots of adjusting for sight of the tape - top and bottom. I tried using a carpenters tape, pulling the L at the end of the tape on the bottom of the ball and reading the top was easier for me (I adjusted for metrics and diameter of the ball - but I think what matters is that both sides are the same). Picture 4 is my wife measuring the distance from the ball to the rubber on the frame.

Again thank you, advice would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Notice that I have also learned to downsize picture sizes - will it stick? Not likely.

Paul:

Nice Pics!

It's a good sign that you got the light to go out. Try to duplicate that result when you get the top moving again.

I would go with option 2 and "rethread" the gear from the opposite side.

If the cable twists, it's because the gear is not engaging and it's jammed. You can spin the drill at a lower speed, but be sure that the drill is at its lowest torque setting regardless of the speed...that will help prevent breaking or fraying the inner cable.

IIRC, the top latch does not play a role in the closing procedure, other than on a '98 it allows you to raise the windows fully closed after you close the latch.

It would not hurt to try reversing (or temporarily removing) the B-pillar microswtich and try the sequence over, starting at the service position and using the measurement as you did in the last photo from your post. Otherwise, use the drill to get everything lined up correctly again.

Regards, Maurice.

[pzinszer]

Hello Maurice

Let me start with my most recent activities.

With the top in the service position, switch attached to the B-Pillar and using a long thin stick as the shim between the clam shell and the frame (this was much better than trying to use my hand, because my focus was strictly forward) for the lever switch on top of the motor. I pushed the button on the dash and the top closed perfectly (removing the stick with about 1/2" clearance for the top to close). And the most remarkable part - the idiot light "Top Open" light went OUT. I latched the top (thinking it might be part of the closing process), then open the latch and pushed the open button - the top open light came back on - the motor did not run. That is where things are right now - so advice from this point would be appreciated.

Now for the interm - remember the motor ran but there was no motion - both V levers were free/loose, so using the drill the left side rethreaded with no problems - the right would not(this side was the problem before), and the cable contorted like a snake looking for a victom to squeeze, looping around and slipping/releasing the energy at the point where the cable joins the first spriral gear.

I have been here before so, I removed the right transmission, took it apart, cleaned it and started to test it. Can you handle some pictures? - well, here they come.

First picture is the right transmission, upside down (sorry) the end with the 2 bolt holes are forward on the car, the top bolt hole is lowest in the picture and is hard to see on the car particularly when looking from above. The large V bat wings are the top of the V Lever at the positions that it loses it's gearing, the arrows show the direction of rotation of the gear when engaged and the forward (clockwise) reverse (anticlockwise) refer to the direction that the drill must be turning.

The second and third pictures show the 50 tooth gear and what I believe is the culprit for not 'rethreading'.

The picture does not show it well, but the right first tooth is rather polished.

For the third picture, looking from the other side the polished tooth is now on the left side.

The polished tooth is larger than the partial tooth on the opposite side - the smaller tooth fed into the gears easily.

In 'playing' with this gear, I noticed that when it would jam, if I tried again but 'reoriented ' the teeth it would sometimes catch, I also believe that the speed of the drill maybe too fast and a slower cable speed may help. So next time it goes off the 50th tooth this option 1. Option 2 is to disconnect the arm going forward to the top at the bolt and rethread the gear from the other side, option 3 ... filing the tooth. Option 4 has something to do with dynamite. I do understand why they went to a B version transmission.

Maurice, I am sure you have notice that I am not able to multi-task (notice my finger on the lever on the motor and watch the top close and stop pushing the button on the dash and watch for the 'top open' light - I was unable to do it -the long stick shim going up to the front seat aided this operation greatly). Well, as it relates to measuring and matching both sides to next use the motor - following your diagram and measuring up from the center of the ball to the rubber on the edge of the frame required 2 hands and lots of adjusting for sight of the tape - top and bottom. I tried using a carpenters tape, pulling the L at the end of the tape on the bottom of the ball and reading the top was easier for me (I adjusted for metrics and diameter of the ball - but I think what matters is that both sides are the same). Picture 4 is my wife measuring the distance from the ball to the rubber on the frame.

Again thank you, advice would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Notice that I have also learned to downsize picture sizes - will it stick? Not likely.

Paul:

Nice Pics!

It's a good sign that you got the light to go out. Try to duplicate that result when you get the top moving again.

I would go with option 2 and "rethread" the gear from the opposite side.

If the cable twists, it's because the gear is not engaging and it's jammed. You can spin the drill at a lower speed, but be sure that the drill is at its lowest torque setting regardless of the speed...that will help prevent breaking or fraying the inner cable.

IIRC, the top latch does not play a role in the closing procedure, other than on a '98 it allows you to raise the windows fully closed after you close the latch.

It would not hurt to try reversing (or temporarily removing) the B-pillar microswtich and try the sequence over, starting at the service position and using the measurement as you did in the last photo from your post. Otherwise, use the drill to get everything lined up correctly again.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice

I have been able to open and close the top twice today -

The first time - the gears on both sides were engaged, for both attempts, so none of those issues, in the service position I removed the micro switch on the B-Pillar (to see if it would open rather than close - the top continued to close, so I reattached the switch) and closed the top - the light 'Top Open" remained on.

Second time, top closed, light went OUT - TA DA!!!! - I turned the ignition key off - then back on - light is still off.

Suggestion from here would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

[1schoir]

Maurice

I have been able to open and close the top twice today -

The first time - the gears on both sides were engaged, for both attempts, so none of those issues, in the service position I removed the micro switch on the B-Pillar (to see if it would open rather than close - the top continued to close, so I reattached the switch) and closed the top - the light 'Top Open" remained on.

Second time, top closed, light went OUT - TA DA!!!! - I turned the ignition key off - then back on - light is still off.

Suggestion from here would be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

Paul:

It sounds like you may have resolved the problems you were having before, especially because getting the light to go out at the end of the "close" cycle is the more troublesome problem.

Let us know if you have any new symptoms.

Regards, Maurice.

[Danws09890]

I have 1998 Porsche Boxster. The convertible top will not go down when i press the button, furthermore the top open light is on. I have noticed that the push-rods (Black cylinders) are slightly bent at the very top( where it gets skinner)The passenger side of the lid compartment is jammed down more than it should be.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Danws09890

[1schoir]

I have 1998 Porsche Boxster. The convertible top will not go down when i press the button, furthermore the top open light is on. I have noticed that the push-rods (Black cylinders) are slightly bent at the very top( where it gets skinner)The passenger side of the lid compartment is jammed down more than it should be.

Dan:

The bend that you see on the thinner metal rod at the end of the black "hydraulic" pushrods is normal. Also, they are mirror images of each other. Do a search here for photos of broken/bent pushrods and of normally bent pushrods or post pics of your pushrods and we'll evaluate them.

If you are not getting any reaction to your pressing the switch, there are a few different possibilities as to the cause:

First, verify that your handbrake is up AND that the emergency brake idiot light is lit up on the dashboard.

Then check fuses D3 (powers the electric motor) and B6 (powers the convertible top double relay).

When you pull down the latch, do the windows automatically drop down by about 4 inches?

Do you hear the electric motor spinning when you press the button or is there a dimming of any lights when you press the button?

Try those and report back as there are a few other, less common, causes we can try to narrow down.

The issue of the front end of the clamshell is either an adjustment to one of three places or the V-lever has over-rotated and your V-levers have to be re-synchronized.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited September 30, 2010 by 1schoir

[Danws09890]

I have 1998 Porsche Boxster. The convertible top will not go down when i press the button, furthermore the top open light is on. I have noticed that the push-rods (Black cylinders) are slightly bent at the very top( where it gets skinner)The passenger side of the lid compartment is jammed down more than it should be.

Dan:

The bend that you see on the thinner metal rod at the end of the black "hydraulic" pushrods is normal. Also, they are mirror images of each other. Do a search here for photos of broken/bent pushrods and of normally bent pushrods or post pics of your pushrods and we'll evaluate them.

If you are not getting any reaction to your pressing the switch, there are a few different possibilities as to the cause:

First, verify that your handbrake is up AND that the emergency brake idiot light is lit up on the dashboard.

Then check fuses D3 (powers the electric motor) and B6 (powers the convertible top double relay).

When you pull down the latch, do the windows automatically drop down by about 4 inches?

Do you hear the electric motor spinning when you press the button or is there a dimming of any lights when you press the button?

Try those and report back as there are a few other, less common, causes we can try to narrow down.

The issue of the front end of the clamshell is either an adjustment to one of three places or the V-lever has over-rotated and your V-levers have to be re-synchronized.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

I hear a clicking noise when i press the button and the windows go down. There are some linkages that are disconnected. apparently from the previous owner, but the roof worked when i first got it. I cannot get the push-rods to disconnect out of the ball. I heard that the back lid(which opens as the push-rods are disconnected) is the first step to getting this thing fixed. My mechanic cannot get the push-rods disconnected. Any ideas? i will post more pics as soon as i can.

Thanks for the quick reply!

-Dan

[1schoir]

I have 1998 Porsche Boxster. The convertible top will not go down when i press the button, furthermore the top open light is on. I have noticed that the push-rods (Black cylinders) are slightly bent at the very top( where it gets skinner)The passenger side of the lid compartment is jammed down more than it should be.

Dan:

The bend that you see on the thinner metal rod at the end of the black "hydraulic" pushrods is normal. Also, they are mirror images of each other. Do a search here for photos of broken/bent pushrods and of normally bent pushrods or post pics of your pushrods and we'll evaluate them.

If you are not getting any reaction to your pressing the switch, there are a few different possibilities as to the cause:

First, verify that your handbrake is up AND that the emergency brake idiot light is lit up on the dashboard.

Then check fuses D3 (powers the electric motor) and B6 (powers the convertible top double relay).

When you pull down the latch, do the windows automatically drop down by about 4 inches?

Do you hear the electric motor spinning when you press the button or is there a dimming of any lights when you press the button?

Try those and report back as there are a few other, less common, causes we can try to narrow down.

The issue of the front end of the clamshell is either an adjustment to one of three places or the V-lever has over-rotated and your V-levers have to be re-synchronized.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

I hear a clicking noise when i press the button and the windows go down. There are some linkages that are disconnected. apparently from the previous owner, but the roof worked when i first got it. I cannot get the push-rods to disconnect out of the ball. I heard that the back lid(which opens as the push-rods are disconnected) is the first step to getting this thing fixed. My mechanic cannot get the push-rods disconnected. Any ideas? i will post more pics as soon as i can.

Thanks for the quick reply!

-Dan

Dan:

Take some photos showing which linkages are disconnected so that we can figure out what has to be put back together, and in what order.

The ball cups can simply be pried off their respective steel balls. However, note that when the clamshell is closed down tight, the black "hydraulic" pushrods are under A LOT OF PRESSURE.

Remember, the black "hydraulic" pushrods act on the clamshell and the front pushrods (that terminate in white or red plastic ball cups) act on the canvas top frame.

If you cannot get the pushrods off their steel balls, you can always unbolt the two V-levers from the transmissions. The V-levers are held on with one 19mm bolt in the center of each one. Note that there is blue loctite on those 19mm bolts, so it does require some extra force to unbolt them. Be careful when you unbolt them as they might suddenly "twist out" or pop-off because of the pressure from the black pushrods. Also, be careful to note the position that the V-levers are installed as it is possible to re-install them 180 degrees off.

Once you have the pushrods off or have unbolted the 19mm bolts to remove the V-levers, you will be able to lift up the clamshell back to its 45 degree rearmost position and that will give you access to "the works".

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 1, 2010 by 1schoir

[Danws09890]

The linkage in the first pic is the one which is disconnected. The next couple pics show the bend at the top of the cylinders. I also noticed the roof open light dimmed when i pressed the roof open button. Is the 19mm bolt the one clearly pictured in the first pic? I want to do this myself and probably my father will help. The previous owner said the pulleys were changed to the updated ones (2001)he says the roof probably needs an adjustment. Whats the difficulty level on a job like this? Thanks for all the help so far.

-Dan

I have 1998 Porsche Boxster. The convertible top will not go down when i press the button, furthermore the top open light is on. I have noticed that the push-rods (Black cylinders) are slightly bent at the very top( where it gets skinner)The passenger side of the lid compartment is jammed down more than it should be.

Dan:

The bend that you see on the thinner metal rod at the end of the black "hydraulic" pushrods is normal. Also, they are mirror images of each other. Do a search here for photos of broken/bent pushrods and of normally bent pushrods or post pics of your pushrods and we'll evaluate them.

If you are not getting any reaction to your pressing the switch, there are a few different possibilities as to the cause:

First, verify that your handbrake is up AND that the emergency brake idiot light is lit up on the dashboard.

Then check fuses D3 (powers the electric motor) and B6 (powers the convertible top double relay).

When you pull down the latch, do the windows automatically drop down by about 4 inches?

Do you hear the electric motor spinning when you press the button or is there a dimming of any lights when you press the button?

Try those and report back as there are a few other, less common, causes we can try to narrow down.

The issue of the front end of the clamshell is either an adjustment to one of three places or the V-lever has over-rotated and your V-levers have to be re-synchronized.

Regards, Maurice.

Maurice,

I hear a clicking noise when i press the button and the windows go down. There are some linkages that are disconnected. apparently from the previous owner, but the roof worked when i first got it. I cannot get the push-rods to disconnect out of the ball. I heard that the back lid(which opens as the push-rods are disconnected) is the first step to getting this thing fixed. My mechanic cannot get the push-rods disconnected. Any ideas? i will post more pics as soon as i can.

Thanks for the quick reply!

-Dan

Dan:

Take some photos showing which linkages are disconnected so that we can figure out what has to be put back together, and in what order.

The ball cups can simply be pried off their respective steel balls. However, note that when the clamshell is closed down tight, the black "hydraulic" pushrods are under A LOT OF PRESSURE.

Remember, the black "hydraulic" pushrods act on the clamshell and the front pushrods (that terminate in white or red plastic ball cups) act on the canvas top frame.

If you cannot get the pushrods off their steel balls, you can always unbolt the two V-levers from the transmissions. The V-levers are held on with one 19mm bolt in the center of each one. Note that there is blue loctite on those 19mm bolts, so it does require some extra force to unbolt them. Be careful when you unbolt them as they might suddenly "twist out" or pop-off because of the pressure from the black pushrods. Also, be careful to note the position that the V-levers are installed as it is possible to re-install them 180 degrees off.

Once you have the pushrods off or have unbolted the 19mm bolts to remove the V-levers, you will be able to lift up the clamshell back to its 45 degree rearmost position and that will give you access to "the works".

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Danws09890

[1schoir]

The linkage in the first pic is the one which is disconnected. The next couple pics show the bend at the top of the cylinders. I also noticed the roof open light dimmed when i pressed the roof open button. Is the 19mm bolt the one clearly pictured in the first pic? I want to do this myself and probably my father will help. The previous owner said the pulleys were changed to the updated ones (2001)he says the roof probably needs an adjustment. Whats the difficulty level on a job like this? Thanks for all the help so far.

-Dan

Dan:

No problem... Glad if I can help you get your roof back to working condition.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most difficult, this is about a 4 or 5, with patience being the one quality that will make it doable. If your dad has some mechanical experience, I can walk you through most of it with the help of some photos.

The roof open light dimming is a good clue that usually means that the V-levers have "over-rotated" and must be "unrotated" by using a cordless drill on the inner speedometer-type cables that are inside of the black vinyl sheaths (after you pull them out of each side of the electric motor). This is a problem that usually only occurs on 1997 to 1999 Boxsters because of the design of the large half-moon gear inside each transmission, so you'll have to do some more investigation to determine which of the two versions of transmissions and two versions of microswitches and double relays you have. IIRC, earlier posts in this thread discuss the difference between the two so that you can identify the one you have.

The 19mm bolt is the one in the first pic, and that is the one that holds the V-lever onto the transmission.

The "disconnected linkage" actually looks like one of your plastic ball cups has broken apart and thus that side of the canvas top frame is no longer being driven by the V-lever. In other words, your front pushrod is no longer connected. Note that it is possible for the top to operate with a broken front pushrod on one side. One word of caution...BE VERY SURE to inspect your foam drain trays, especially the one on the side where the broken pushrod is. That pushrod ends up dangling as the top goes through its cycle and digs in and tears or rips the drain tray. That will inevitably result in water getting into the floorboards of the cabin, where it will find its way to your central alarm computer under the driver's seat. That's an expensive repair, so the foam drain tray must be replaced or repaired with sealant.

The bend at the tops of your black pushrods don't appear to be bent abnormally, but it will be easier to determine it definitively once you get them out and take new photos. The fact that you see a part of the shiny portion of the black pushrod means that the pushrods are indeed under pressure at this point... So, be careful, when you release the pressure by unbolting the 19mm bolt.

Regards, Maurice.

[Danws09890]

Thanks for the information. I will probably need to switch out the foam lining because after heavy rain water gets inside. I will do some investigating into the types of transmissions i have. I'm looking to start this project this week. After i adjust the transmissions with the power drill and connect the linkages, would there be anymore adjustments necessary in this type of situation?

-Dan

The linkage in the first pic is the one which is disconnected. The next couple pics show the bend at the top of the cylinders. I also noticed the roof open light dimmed when i pressed the roof open button. Is the 19mm bolt the one clearly pictured in the first pic? I want to do this myself and probably my father will help. The previous owner said the pulleys were changed to the updated ones (2001)he says the roof probably needs an adjustment. Whats the difficulty level on a job like this? Thanks for all the help so far.

-Dan

Dan:

No problem... Glad if I can help you get your roof back to working condition.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most difficult, this is about a 4 or 5, with patience being the one quality that will make it doable. If your dad has some mechanical experience, I can walk you through most of it with the help of some photos.

The roof open light dimming is a good clue that usually means that the V-levers have "over-rotated" and must be "unrotated" by using a cordless drill on the inner speedometer-type cables that are inside of the black vinyl sheaths (after you pull them out of each side of the electric motor). This is a problem that usually only occurs on 1997 to 1999 Boxsters because of the design of the large half-moon gear inside each transmission, so you'll have to do some more investigation to determine which of the two versions of transmissions and two versions of microswitches and double relays you have. IIRC, earlier posts in this thread discuss the difference between the two so that you can identify the one you have.

The 19mm bolt is the one in the first pic, and that is the one that holds the V-lever onto the transmission.

The "disconnected linkage" actually looks like one of your plastic ball cups has broken apart and thus that side of the canvas top frame is no longer being driven by the V-lever. In other words, your front pushrod is no longer connected. Note that it is possible for the top to operate with a broken front pushrod on one side. One word of caution...BE VERY SURE to inspect your foam drain trays, especially the one on the side where the broken pushrod is. That pushrod ends up dangling as the top goes through its cycle and digs in and tears or rips the drain tray. That will inevitably result in water getting into the floorboards of the cabin, where it will find its way to your central alarm computer under the driver's seat. That's an expensive repair, so the foam drain tray must be replaced or repaired with sealant.

The bend at the tops of your black pushrods don't appear to be bent abnormally, but it will be easier to determine it definitively once you get them out and take new photos. The fact that you see a part of the shiny portion of the black pushrod means that the pushrods are indeed under pressure at this point... So, be careful, when you release the pressure by unbolting the 19mm bolt.

Regards, Maurice.

[1schoir]

Thanks for the information. I will probably need to switch out the foam lining because after heavy rain water gets inside. I will do some investigating into the types of transmissions i have. I'm looking to start this project this week. After i adjust the transmissions with the power drill and connect the linkages, would there be anymore adjustments necessary in this type of situation?

-Dan

Dan:

To replace the foam drain trays, you will have to remove the entire top and frame assembly. That is a relatively straightforward DIY: http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97

Start at page 17, in Part II of the PDF at the bottom of the article.

If you get the transmissions synchronized, the only other possible adjustments would be to the lever on the B-Pillar microswitch (so that it triggers the switch at exactly the right moment when the top is reaching the completely closed position) and to the overall length of the front pushrods (so that it mates up evenly with the top of the windshield frame).

Again, be careful to document the position of the V-levers before removing them so that you don't accidentally install them upside down.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 4, 2010 by 1schoir

[Danws09890]

Maurice,

Thanks again, ill update the progress as i get into this project.

-Dan

Thanks for the information. I will probably need to switch out the foam lining because after heavy rain water gets inside. I will do some investigating into the types of transmissions i have. I'm looking to start this project this week. After i adjust the transmissions with the power drill and connect the linkages, would there be anymore adjustments necessary in this type of situation?

-Dan

Dan:

To replace the foam drain trays, you will have to remove the entire top and frame assembly. That is a relatively straightforward DIY: http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97

Start at page 17, in Part II of the PDF at the bottom of the article.

If you get the transmissions synchronized, the only other possible adjustments would be to the lever on the B-Pillar microswitch (so that it triggers the switch at exactly the right moment when the top is reaching the completely closed position) and to the overall length of the front pushrods (so that it mates up evenly with the top of the windshield frame).

Again, be careful to document the position of the V-levers before removing them so that you don't accidentally install them upside down.

Regards, Maurice.

[Danws09890]

Maurice,

I have gotten the clamshell open by pressing the button and at the same time manually opening it. I was then able to operate the top elertonicly. I moved it up and down a bit. Then we connected the linkages( they did not apear broken). We then closed the top all the way, but it would not eleronicly open again. The linkages popped out right before the top closed. Then we opened it again manually. Is my next Step to "unrotate" the transmission using a power drill? What is your advice from this point?

Thank you in advance

-Dan

[1schoir]

Maurice,

I have gotten the clamshell open by pressing the button and at the same time manually opening it. I was then able to operate the top elertonicly. I moved it up and down a bit. Then we connected the linkages( they did not apear broken). We then closed the top all the way, but it would not eleronicly open again. The linkages popped out right before the top closed. Then we opened it again manually. Is my next Step to "unrotate" the transmission using a power drill? What is your advice from this point?

Thank you in advance

-Dan

Dan:

If by "the linkages popped out" you mean that the plastic ball cups popped off their steel balls, that, coupled with the top not wanting to open again, probably means that the V-levers have over-rotated. When that happens, they are sort of "locked up" and they won't usually go back in the other direction. The over-rotation is usually accompanied by a loud bang (either on one side or on both sides), which is what happens when the half-moon gear (only in the "A Version" transmissions) goes past its 50th tooth and is pulled back sharply by the black "hydraulic" pushrod.

Did the "top open" idiot light on the dash go out when the top closed completely? If so, do the side windows drop the 4 inches when you pull down the latch?

You should "unrotate" the V-levers by using the cordless drill on the LOWEST torque setting, until you can determine whether the small silver lever on the B-pillar microswitch has to be adjusted so it trips a split second earlier. That should stop the rotation slightly earlier and prevent the problem you are experiencing now.

Regards, Maurice.

[Danws09890]

Muarice,

I Heard that noise your talking about.I did not check if the light went out. Do i need to rotate both cords attached to the eletric motor? Would it be clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Thanks again for the Help. Hoping to solve this problem soon!

Maurice,

I have gotten the clamshell open by pressing the button and at the same time manually opening it. I was then able to operate the top elertonicly. I moved it up and down a bit. Then we connected the linkages( they did not apear broken). We then closed the top all the way, but it would not eleronicly open again. The linkages popped out right before the top closed. Then we opened it again manually. Is my next Step to "unrotate" the transmission using a power drill? What is your advice from this point?

Thank you in advance

-Dan

Dan:

If by "the linkages popped out" you mean that the plastic ball cups popped off their steel balls, that, coupled with the top not wanting to open again, probably means that the V-levers have over-rotated. When that happens, they are sort of "locked up" and they won't usually go back in the other direction. The over-rotation is usually accompanied by a loud bang (either on one side or on both sides), which is what happens when the half-moon gear (only in the "A Version" transmissions) goes past its 50th tooth and is pulled back sharply by the black "hydraulic" pushrod.

Did the "top open" idiot light on the dash go out when the top closed completely? If so, do the side windows drop the 4 inches when you pull down the latch?

You should "unrotate" the V-levers by using the cordless drill on the LOWEST torque setting, until you can determine whether the small silver lever on the B-pillar microswitch has to be adjusted so it trips a split second earlier. That should stop the rotation slightly earlier and prevent the problem you are experiencing now.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Danws09890

[1schoir]

Muarice,

I Heard that noise your talking about.I did not check if the light went out. Do i need to rotate both cords attached to the Micro switch? Would it be clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Thanks again for the Help. Hoping to solve this problem soon!

Dan:

That noise, as I said, is the sound of the black "hydraulic" pushrods (they actually have a very large spring inside of them) pulling the V-lever back as the gear goes past the last (50th) tooth.

I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding "both cords attached to the Micro switch".

To unrotate the V-levers, pull out one of the black vinyl cable from the side of the electric motor (after you pull the upside-down U-Clip up and off) and you will find the inner speedometer-type cable sticking out of the outer sheath. Stick that metal cable in the chuck of your cordless drill (LOWEST setting) and spin the cable with the drill. The movement of the V-lever is very slow with the drill operating it, so you will easily be able to see which direction you want the drill to spin. You essentially want to unwind (or "unpretzel") the V-levers, one side at a time by going back and forth between them, a few inches at a time.

The B-pillar microswtich is located at the base of the B-lever, and it has a small lever that is tripped by the postion of the convertible top frame as the top gets close to the "completely closed" position.

Bending that little silver lever by a VERY SMALL amount can trip the microswitch slightly earlier, and that will then send a signal to the double relay to turn off the electric motor (which will stop the V-levers from over-rotating and "locking up") and simultaneously turn off the "open light".

Here is a photo of what that microswitch and the little silver lever looks like (click on the photo to enlarge it):

The red arrow is pointing to the silver lever, the little black "box" beneath it is the switch itself, and just behind the silver lever is the part of the convertible top frame that presses on the lever as the top gets near the "completely closed" position.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 11, 2010 by 1schoir

[Danws09890]

Maurice,

I am at a stand still. I had used the power drill to move the v-levers, both V-levers moved both ways. I might of moved each side like a couple inches. I used a ruler to see if both v-levers were even(they weren't), then ajusted each v-lever(with power drill) to be about the same position as the other side. When i went to close the top all the way (all linkages connected) The front rods disconnected again . I believe the adjustment i made with the power drill was wrong.

Worst of all when i tryed to open the lid manually (as it worked before) I broke a connecting arm on one side and then popped out the hydrolic pushrod out of the ball on the other side.(slightly bending the v-Lever. I deffinty srewed up a bit. I have a guy that will most likely sent me a new control arm. I provided pictures of the distruction below.

Can you explain to me how to step by step how to adjust the v-levers.

Thanks again for all your help so far.

-Dan

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/danws09890/?action=view&current=IMG_0224.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/danws09890/IMG_0224.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/danws09890/?action=view&current=IMG_0223.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/danws09890/IMG_0223.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Edited October 16, 2010 by Danws09890

[1schoir]

Maurice,

I am at a stand still. I had used the power drill to move the v-levers, both V-levers moved both ways. I might of moved each side like a couple inches. I used a ruler to see if both v-levers were even(they weren't), then ajusted each v-lever(with power drill) to be about the same position as the other side. When i went to close the top all the way (all linkages connected) The front rods disconnected again . I believe the adjustment i made with the power drill was wrong.

Worst of all when i tryed to open the lid manually (as it worked before) I broke a connecting arm on one side and then popped out the hydrolic pushrod out of the ball on the other side.(slightly bending the v-Lever. I deffinty srewed up a bit. I have a guy that will most likely sent me a new control arm. I provided pictures of the distruction below.

Can you explain to me how to step by step how to adjust the v-levers.

Thanks again for all your help so far.

-Dan

Dan:

The photos did not take...

As a starting point, use the drill method to rotate and synchronize the position of the V-levers. Use the explanation and photos contained on Pages 38 and 39 of the Part III PDF of the DIY, here: http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/installinga'03-'04glasstopandframeona'97 (go to the bottom of the linked page for a link to the PDF Part III).

Once you have that set, operate the top through a cycle and see if there is any improvement.

If the plastic ball cups are still popping off their respective steel balls, try adjusting the length of the pushrods by lengthening them one turn of the plastic ball cup at a time to see if that stops them from popping off. At all times, observe and take note of whether or not the "Top Open" idiot light goes out, or if it goes out immediately after the plastic ball cups pop off. If the latter is the case, you may be able to solve the problem by lengthening the pushrods because that will allow the V-levers to travel a slight bit further around without popping off the plastic ball cup.

If that is not sufficient, you may have to try to adjust the bend in the small silver lever on the B-Pillar microswitch or by inserting 1/4 inch foam spacers under the clamshell (so that the motor turns off a split second sooner and thus does not over-rotate the V-levers).

You should not try to pick up the clamshell manually unless and until you have disconnected the black "hydraulic" pushrods from the V-lever or from the point where they are connected to the support arms of the clamshell.

Perhaps you can try to upload the photos again, without using Photobucket. I don't know why they didn't take the first time.

Regards, Maurice.

[Danws09890]

Hi Maurice,

I have had some progress with the convertible top. My uncle and I had realized that the small silver lever on the miroswitch broke off. We had fixed it. After the problem was solved the top was able to go back up. The only problem now is that the pushrods that attach to the roof pop off. We adjusted the length on either side several times(shortening and lengthening the pushrods) Then we tired closing it with the pushrods loose and not tightening (the adjustment section of the pushrods) I realized that the nut that needs to be tighened was at different points of each pushrod. They ofcourse did not pop off when they were loose, but once I tightened them, the same problem occurred when trying to close the roof all the way. Any suggestion?

Thanks in Advance

-Dan

[1schoir]

Hi Maurice,

I have had some progress with the convertible top. My uncle and I had realized that the small silver lever on the miroswitch broke off. We had fixed it. After the problem was solved the top was able to go back up. The only problem now is that the pushrods that attach to the roof pop off. We adjusted the length on either side several times(shortening and lengthening the pushrods) Then we tired closing it with the pushrods loose and not tightening (the adjustment section of the pushrods) I realized that the nut that needs to be tighened was at different points of each pushrod. They ofcourse did not pop off when they were loose, but once I tightened them, the same problem occurred when trying to close the roof all the way. Any suggestion?

Thanks in Advance

-Dan

Dan:

Good that you have made some progress and are getting familiar with the mechanism.

Your current symptoms sound like the V-levers are "over-rotating", probably because the double relay is getting the signal from the B-Pillar microswitch a little too late in the cycle.

You may be able to make an adjustment by carefully bending that little silver lever on the B-Pillar microswitch so that the part of the B-Pillar on the frame that trips it makes contact a split second earlier. That will cut power to the motor just a little earlier and that will then stop the rotation of the V-levers.

Two questions:

1. When you say that you had the little silver leg on the microswitch "fixed", exactly what did you do?

2. When the top is almost all the way closed, does it start to come back slightly before the pushrods pop off the steel balls at the base of the B-Pillars?

Regards, Maurice.

Edited December 21, 2010 by 1schoir

[Danws09890]

Maurice,

To answer your first question: We secured a piece of plastic in the area where the sliver lever attaches to the micro-switch, then super glued into place. It's looking like it will hold. Also, i did notice the lid had gone up slightly with completely closing. I will look to make the adjustment to the silver lever today.

Hi Maurice,

I have had some progress with the convertible top. My uncle and I had realized that the small silver lever on the miroswitch broke off. We had fixed it. After the problem was solved the top was able to go back up. The only problem now is that the pushrods that attach to the roof pop off. We adjusted the length on either side several times(shortening and lengthening the pushrods) Then we tired closing it with the pushrods loose and not tightening (the adjustment section of the pushrods) I realized that the nut that needs to be tighened was at different points of each pushrod. They ofcourse did not pop off when they were loose, but once I tightened them, the same problem occurred when trying to close the roof all the way. Any suggestion?

Thanks in Advance

-Dan

Dan:

Good that you have made some progress and are getting familiar with the mechanism.

Your current symptoms sound like the V-levers are "over-rotating", probably because the double relay is getting the signal from the B-Pillar microswitch a little too late in the cycle.

You may be able to make an adjustment by carefully bending that little silver lever on the B-Pillar microswitch so that the part of the B-Pillar on the frame that trips it makes contact a split second earlier. That will cut power to the motor just a little earlier and that will then stop the rotation of the V-levers.

Two questions:

1. When you say that you had the little silver leg on the microswitch "fixed", exactly what did you do?

2. When the top is almost all the way closed, does it start to come back slightly before the pushrods pop off the steel balls at the base of the B-Pillars?

Regards, Maurice.