Crankshaft sensor code = defective flywheel?

[pkstyles]

Hi guys, this is my first post here. I've had my 1999 911 for 8 months now and I love it. I bought it knowing the clutch was on it's way out. Finally it started slipping, which the shop said if she's slipping most likely you'll have to replace the fly wheel too. So I bought the LUK OEM clutch kit and LUK dual mass flywheel from Gripforce Clutch, they have really great prices. It was installed suppossedly without a hitch and the shop went for a test drive - all was good.

When I got the car back, it was starting very awful and when I finally got a chance to step on the throttle, there seemed to be a phantom rev limiter kicking in around 6100 rpm on the nose. The check engine light would only come on for a half second then remain off. So today I dropped if off at the shop, they said a code was being stored ( I don't have the exact code as I haven't picked it up from the shop yet ) and it was coming from the crankshaft sensor. So they replaced the sensor but the code is still coming up. Now they're saying that the fly wheel must be defective! I provided the parts so they won't cover any labour, and I'll essentially be paying for the labour job twice!!!!

How can the fly wheel be defective? Until they pull the car apart they won't be able to confirm this, but they said this is the next step to solving this problem.

Is there any other thing that could be drawing that code? Like something pluggin up the suppossed "notch" that the sensor reads from? Any ideas would be great, I really won't want to have to drop the transmission again.

Thanks!

pat

[1999Porsche911]

Hi guys, this is my first post here. I've had my 1999 911 for 8 months now and I love it. I bought it knowing the clutch was on it's way out. Finally it started slipping, which the shop said if she's slipping most likely you'll have to replace the fly wheel too. So I bought the LUK OEM clutch kit and LUK dual mass flywheel from Gripforce Clutch, they have really great prices. It was installed suppossedly without a hitch and the shop went for a test drive - all was good.

When I got the car back, it was starting very awful and when I finally got a chance to step on the throttle, there seemed to be a phantom rev limiter kicking in around 6100 rpm on the nose. The check engine light would only come on for a half second then remain off. So today I dropped if off at the shop, they said a code was being stored ( I don't have the exact code as I haven't picked it up from the shop yet ) and it was coming from the crankshaft sensor. So they replaced the sensor but the code is still coming up. Now they're saying that the fly wheel must be defective! I provided the parts so they won't cover any labour, and I'll essentially be paying for the labour job twice!!!!

How can the fly wheel be defective? Until they pull the car apart they won't be able to confirm this, but they said this is the next step to solving this problem.

Is there any other thing that could be drawing that code? Like something pluggin up the suppossed "notch" that the sensor reads from? Any ideas would be great, I really won't want to have to drop the transmission again.

Thanks!

pat

I would not let them pull it apart again until I was there watching to make sure flywheel was installed correctly. It could be the flywheel or like they screwed up and might have hit the sensor or wiring. Sensor circuit can be tested without pulling the tranny. Code would be helpful.

Edited January 13, 2010 by 1999Porsche911

[pkstyles]

I would not let them pull it apart again until I was there watching to make sure flywheel was installed correctly. It could be the flywheel or like they screwed up and might have hit the sensor or wiring. Sensor circuit can be tested without pulling the tranny. Code would be helpful.

Yeah I'm hesitant to rip the tranny out JUST to see IF the flywheel is defective... seems like so much **** work on a maybe. The shop did get a new crankshaft sensor shipped over from Porsche and installed it but it came up with the same code. I just called them - the code is: P0336

Any clues? The tech at gripforce said he's never heard of a defective dualmass flywheel, he think's its something simple like resetting the ECU or something. Please help!! :)

[Loren]

P0336 Engine Speed Sensor Signal – Open Circuit

The distance of the sensor is not adjustable.

From the service manual...

"The steel toothed ring is stamped from sheet steel. Take great care when installing and removing the flywheel, because force acting on the steel toothed ring can deform it, leading to a defective signal."

Connect ohmmeter connector part to rpm/crankshaft position sensor, pins 1 and 2.

Display at 20 °C: 0.8 – 1.0 ohms -- Not ok -- Replace rpm/crankshaft position sensor.

Connect ohmmeter connector part to rpm/crankshaft position sensor, pins 1 and 3.

Display: infinite ohms -- not ok -- Replace rpm/crankshaft position sensor.

[pkstyles]

P0336 Engine Speed Sensor Signal – Open Circuit

The distance of the sensor is not adjustable.

From the service manual...

"The steel toothed ring is stamped from sheet steel. Take great care when installing and removing the flywheel, because force acting on the steel toothed ring can deform it, leading to a defective signal."

Connect ohmmeter connector part to rpm/crankshaft position sensor, pins 1 and 2.

Display at 20 °C: 0.8 – 1.0 ohms -- Not ok -- Replace rpm/crankshaft position sensor.

Connect ohmmeter connector part to rpm/crankshaft position sensor, pins 1 and 3.

Display: infinite ohms -- not ok -- Replace rpm/crankshaft position sensor.

hmmmmmmmmmmm... well they said they checked the wiring and also put a new sensor on it - only to draw the same code. so is it the flywheel? maybe it was banged during install?

[Loren]

With all due respect to the shop - how did they check the sensor? Per manual procedures as I listed above?

[pkstyles]

With all due respect to the shop - how did they check the sensor? Per manual procedures as I listed above?

i asked if they checked the wiring, they said yes - then proceeded to fit a new sensor on it. even with the new sensor it triggered the same code.

so must it be wiring or the flywheel?

also, could the flywheel have been damaged during shipping? it only came in the yellow LUK box, no additional padding....

[pkstyles]

small update:

I spoke to LUK tech support on the phone, they said the chances of the flywheel being defective is very very small. The only other two possibilities are damage during shipping or damage during installation - both of which are possible but not probable.

So I'm taking the car to another specialist shop for a 2nd opinion. The new shop confirmed that code is an "open circuit code" as Loren pointed out here - and to him, points to an electrical fault, not mechanical.

Lets pray it's just wiring or the sensor!

Will update again when I have more news. Thanks for the help so far :)

[pkstyles]

spoke to the shop, they tweaked a few things on my car that i didn't even notice, such as play in the throttle, clutch pedal sensor (for starting the car) and cleaned up some gunk by the throttle body; smoothing out the idle. these guys seems to know the 996 much better than the last shop. (even though the last shop is porsche certified)

as for the P0336 code: they retested the wiring, it seems to be in working order. they put a new crankshaft sensor on the car (one that has been confirmed to be working) and the waveform improves, but still draws the code. they inspected the flywheel teeth with the sensor removed, can't see any obvious damage or flaws.

the car is staying the night and they will resume a few more tests in the morning and that the problem is so weird, the don't want to drop the transmission just yet. though they did say, this could be the one in a million shot of a defective fly wheel magnet or equivalent.

any ideas i could forward to the guys in the morning to check?

[pkstyles]

quick update:

we're out of options... have to drop the transmission to check the flywheel. most likely put a new one in from the shop and deal with gripforce separately if it is defective. on the plus side, they're going to check the flange and IMS bearing... which the last shop never even mentioned - so there could be a silver lining to this all. and expensive silver lining, but one none the less :)

[pkstyles]

well finally the mystery has been solved, albiet not cheap. 2 of the crankshaft sensor teeth were bent on the fly wheel!!! the teeth are pretty **** thick and there's really no way they could have been damaged during shipping; the box was is good condition when it arrived and i didn't open it before handing it over for install.

so that leaves two possibilities, the shop installing it either dropped it or bent them during install. the other... it was bent from the manufactuer and packaged without inspection. the latter is much less likely. so now i'm going to send photos to LUK to see if they will confirm if this is a "manufacturing defect". if it isn't (which i don't think it is, you can see blunt impact on the bent teeth), I'm going after the shop that installed it - as they should pay for the costs having to buy a 2nd flywheel and the hours of labour to swap it out.

there is a silver lining to all of this... my IMS bearing has NO PLAY!!! wooooooo hoooooo!! they also removed the dust cover on it so she'll get lube :) on top of that, they ran the serial number on my engine and it's a reman engine!! they can't nail down the milage of it but based on the sparkplugs there looks to be about 40-50k kilometers on it. double SWEET!

so all in all the now car drives better than i could have imagined!

does any one have any recommendations on how i should deal with getting compensation for this mess from the first shop?