ATF filling procedure on my02 tiptronic

[JFP in PA]

2004 996 3.6 Tip...

My sump looks exactly the same as Lorens service manual post and the pelican picture.

Good, then we are making progress. Look at the smaller insert in the upper right of this photo:

In that inset photo, the red arrow is pointing at the A or drain plug, the blue arrow is pointing at B or the overflow port. Now if you look directly to the right of the red arrow, you will see a larger hex cap (looks like and AC service port cap) which is covering the charging port, where the line to fill the trans connects.

[maor]

Why does the service manual not say to use that ?

[JFP in PA]

Why does the service manual not say to use that ?

I have no idea why, are you sure the manual is correct for the car and year?

[maor]

It says Replacing ATF (from MY2002)

[JFP in PA]

It says Replacing ATF (from MY2002)

Whose manual is it (Porsche, aftermarket, etc.)? My OEM looks just like what Loren posted and if you read item #6, it tells you to fill the trans via the charging port:

Note: To undo and tighten the cap nut for the charging valve, counter with an open-ended wrench.

5. Screw off cap nut for the charging valve.

6. Screw connection hose No. 9507/1 A onto charging valve. Top up with ATF via the charging valve until surplus ATF runs out at the control screw bore.

Note: All instructions and test conditions for "Checking and topping up ATF fluid" must be observed for further work steps>>> 37-1 "Checking and topping up ATF (as of model year 2002)".

The Bentley manual also says the same thing.

[maor]

I see, hmm where does one get one of these special hose connections then?

Thanks for your help BTW.

[maor]

Ignore - 000.721.950.71

[jjb7]

Take note: if confused on the procedure, google the Mecedes Benz part number and hopefully you will find ZF Getreibe's manual on this transmission. In it will be the fill procedure. this is what I did for my '99. Also, the ZF fill procedure is slightly different that Porsche's.

BEWARE: temperature probes can get stuck in your transmission. Mine did.

BEWARE: temperature probes and IR thermometers inaccurately represent the temperature of the oil, especially if you perform this procedure in the winter in your garage. This is how I got it wrong the first time. I discovered the problem when I was on the track during DE. The tranny slipped during turns and went into limp mode.

If your software can not read the TCU, then try AutoEnginuity's. This is what I use.

[GOB]

Looks like for my odd tiptronic behavior posted elsewhere, my only option is to take it to the dealer since my car (2002 C4S) requires the the special hose to refill the transmission fluid and the PIWIS to properly read the oil temperature to make sure it is measured properly, correct? Local indy told me that he has neither of these specialized tools (fill hose or PIWIS). I don't want to risk anything... All this said and done, when I called the dealer, the head mechanic had no idea about any special filling hose! Better print this out and take it to them. Just wanted to confirm that post #20 by Loren (end of page 1) is the correct procedure/diagram for my car: Euro spec 2002 Carrera 4S.

[GOB]

For future reference: the local stealer wants $905 to change the ATF oil and filter! $350 in parts and $555 in labor! That is just plain NUTS! Could someone please confirm that in fact the ONLY way to do this procedure is at the dealership? Reading the posts found on this site, it seems that some do it at home/indy, but others say no due to the hose and temperature measurements.

Local indy tells me that he can check the level for me and connect his OBD reader to see if any fault codes show up, but that to replace the oil and filter, to do so at the dealer. I just find it completely ridiculous that they want to charge this much for an oil change.

Edited October 10, 2013 by GOB

[Loren]

For future reference: the local stealer wants $905 to change the ATF oil and filter! $350 in parts and $555 in labor! That is just plain NUTS! Could someone please confirm that in fact the ONLY way to do this procedure is at the dealership? Reading the posts found on this site, it seems that some do it at home/indy, but others say no due to the hose and temperature measurements.

Local indy tells me that he can check the level for me and connect his OBD reader to see if any fault codes show up, but that to replace the oil and filter, to do so at the dealer. I just find it completely ridiculous that they want to charge this much for an oil change.

Did you see the DIY Tutorial on this?

http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutorials/article/68-tiptronic-transmission-service/

[GOB]

Loren: I did, but that is for a pre 2002 transmission and mine is a 2002 C4S, hence the temperature probe he used will not necessarily work, hence my concern about how to properly measure the ATF level at the right ATF temperature. I just got the written quote and the high cost is due to the ATF ($41/quart :eek: :eek: :cursing: ). Other local prices: filter $98, bolt $7, washer $5, seal $37. They wont sell me the hose as it is considered a tool and they don't sell tools :censored: . Their new quote is now $515 in parts alone (vs $250 in USA, including the hose).

I am going to talk to the indy and ask him to rent me a lift and tools so I can do this job myself with his supervision and then pay the dealer to have the fluid level checked to make sure it is at the right level at the right temperature. Over $1,100 for a ATF change is just vulgarly ridiculous :censored: :soapbox: :cursing: . I don't make $700 a day, so spending a day on this and doing it myself, ensuring that it is done properly is worth the at least $700 I will save from doing it myself.

Edited October 10, 2013 by GOB

[JFP in PA]

Loren: I did, but that is for a pre 2002 transmission and mine is a 2002 C4S, hence the temperature probe he used will not necessarily work, hence my concern about how to properly measure the ATF level at the right ATF temperature. I just got the written quote and the high cost is due to the ATF ($41/quart :eek: :eek: :cursing: ). Other local prices: filter $98, bolt $7, washer $5, seal $37. They wont sell me the hose as it is considered a tool and they don't sell tools :censored: . Their new quote is now $515 in parts alone (vs $250 in USA, including the hose).

I am going to talk to the indy and ask him to rent me a lift and tools so I can do this job myself with his supervision and then pay the dealer to have the fluid level checked to make sure it is at the right level at the right temperature. Over $1,100 for a ATF change is just vulgarly ridiculous :censored: :soapbox: :cursing: . I don't make $700 a day, so spending a day on this and doing it myself, ensuring that it is done properly is worth the at least $700 I will save from doing it myself.

You are reading too much into this. Yes, the 2002 and later cars require a special hose (9057/1), but when you see one of these up close, you realize it is nothing more than an AC charging hose that depresses the Schrader valve in the fill port, allowing the fluid to flow in. We simply took an old AC hose and put a Motive Power sourced quick disconnect on it so that we could use it instead of the curved fill tube for the earlier cars;

A brand new set of three AC hoses cost about $15-20, the Motive fill tool is available from multiple sources, as it the quick disconnect. So, for a few bucks, you have a tool that will fill either early or late Tips.

As for temperature control, you really do not need a PIWIS to do this; the trans needs to be below 105F when it is filled, so if it is cool, you just fill it until it comes out the overfill port while the engine is idling. when it does, move the gear selector through the gears, and check level again. Then it is Miller time.................

[GOB]

JFP: thank you very much for the idea to use another tool instead! Since auto parts store here do not carry tools as most do in the US, I wonder how much "damage" could be done by filling the tranny through the overfill port. In other words, pour ATF throigh the overfill until it starts to pour out. Would that work too? I know it is not as "elegant" as the Motive/AC hose, but it may yield a much faster repair time!

[JFP in PA]

JFP: thank you very much for the idea to use another tool instead! Since auto parts store here do not carry tools as most do in the US, I wonder how much "damage" could be done by filling the tranny through the overfill port. In other words, pour ATF throigh the overfill until it starts to pour out. Would that work too? I know it is not as "elegant" as the Motive/AC hose, but it may yield a much faster repair time!

That would work, but the overfill port is not very large, is on a slight angle, and has some obstructions just inside it, so pushing a tube it is not ideal.

[maor]

JFP you appear to be very knowledgeable.

How many litres usually comes out when draining just the pan only?

[JFP in PA]

JFP you appear to be very knowledgeable.

How many litres usually comes out when draining just the pan only?

Somewhere between 3 and 4. The system hold a total of about 9, and most is trapped in the converter.

[maor]

Loren: I did, but that is for a pre 2002 transmission and mine is a 2002 C4S, hence the temperature probe he used will not necessarily work, hence my concern about how to properly measure the ATF level at the right ATF temperature. I just got the written quote and the high cost is due to the ATF ($41/quart :eek: :eek: :cursing: ). Other local prices: filter $98, bolt $7, washer $5, seal $37. They wont sell me the hose as it is considered a tool and they don't sell tools :censored: . Their new quote is now $515 in parts alone (vs $250 in USA, including the hose).

I am going to talk to the indy and ask him to rent me a lift and tools so I can do this job myself with his supervision and then pay the dealer to have the fluid level checked to make sure it is at the right level at the right temperature. Over $1,100 for a ATF change is just vulgarly ridiculous :censored: :soapbox: :cursing: . I don't make $700 a day, so spending a day on this and doing it myself, ensuring that it is done properly is worth the at least $700 I will save from doing it myself.

You are reading too much into this. Yes, the 2002 and later cars require a special hose (9057/1), but when you see one of these up close, you realize it is nothing more than an AC charging hose that depresses the Schrader valve in the fill port, allowing the fluid to flow in. We simply took an old AC hose and put a Motive Power sourced quick disconnect on it so that we could use it instead of the curved fill tube for the earlier cars;

A brand new set of three AC hoses cost about $15-20, the Motive fill tool is available from multiple sources, as it the quick disconnect. So, for a few bucks, you have a tool that will fill either early or late Tips.

As for temperature control, you really do not need a PIWIS to do this; the trans needs to be below 105F when it is filled, so if it is cool, you just fill it until it comes out the overfill port while the engine is idling. when it does, move the gear selector through the gears, and check level again. Then it is Miller time.................

JFP can I double check thiswith you.

Your post intrigued me and so I took the cap off the transmission and took my AC hose from my gauges. It doesn't screw on as it is slightly too small.

Also do you happen to know what colour the transmission fluid was shipped with a brand new 722.6?

Edited October 19, 2013 by maor

[JFP in PA]

Loren: I did, but that is for a pre 2002 transmission and mine is a 2002 C4S, hence the temperature probe he used will not necessarily work, hence my concern about how to properly measure the ATF level at the right ATF temperature. I just got the written quote and the high cost is due to the ATF ($41/quart :eek: :eek: :cursing: ). Other local prices: filter $98, bolt $7, washer $5, seal $37. They wont sell me the hose as it is considered a tool and they don't sell tools :censored: . Their new quote is now $515 in parts alone (vs $250 in USA, including the hose).

I am going to talk to the indy and ask him to rent me a lift and tools so I can do this job myself with his supervision and then pay the dealer to have the fluid level checked to make sure it is at the right level at the right temperature. Over $1,100 for a ATF change is just vulgarly ridiculous :censored: :soapbox: :cursing: . I don't make $700 a day, so spending a day on this and doing it myself, ensuring that it is done properly is worth the at least $700 I will save from doing it myself.

You are reading too much into this. Yes, the 2002 and later cars require a special hose (9057/1), but when you see one of these up close, you realize it is nothing more than an AC charging hose that depresses the Schrader valve in the fill port, allowing the fluid to flow in. We simply took an old AC hose and put a Motive Power sourced quick disconnect on it so that we could use it instead of the curved fill tube for the earlier cars;

A brand new set of three AC hoses cost about $15-20, the Motive fill tool is available from multiple sources, as it the quick disconnect. So, for a few bucks, you have a tool that will fill either early or late Tips.

As for temperature control, you really do not need a PIWIS to do this; the trans needs to be below 105F when it is filled, so if it is cool, you just fill it until it comes out the overfill port while the engine is idling. when it does, move the gear selector through the gears, and check level again. Then it is Miller time.................

JFP can I double check thiswith you.

Your post intrigued me and so I took the cap off the transmission and took my AC hose from my gauges. It doesn't screw on as it is slightly too small.

Also do you happen to know what colour the transmission fluid was shipped with a brand new 722.6?

I believe the hose we used is for the 134A AC systems, which use a larger fitting. You should also be able to get adaptors to change sizes, like the ones that are commonly used on the fuel test port on the fuel rail; which also uses a similar a Schrader valve system:

By the time we usually see the factory fill, it is pretty dark, but it looks to have been a reddish pink color as well.

[GOB]

If only 3-4 liters/quarts are removed by doing the drain plug and removing the pan (to replace the filter), how does one go about removing the other 4-5 quarts to make sure that all that is left is ±9 liters of fresh ATF?

[JFP in PA]

If only 3-4 liters/quarts are removed by doing the drain plug and removing the pan (to replace the filter), how does one go about removing the other 4-5 quarts to make sure that all that is left is ±9 liters of fresh ATF?

You don't. Without removing the transmission and converter from the car, and draining the converter (where most of the fluid sits), you cannot get all the old stuff out. Best recommendation I can give any Tip owner is to ignore the OEM service recommendations and change the fluid and filter fairly regularly so that you are constantly replacing at least some of the fluid with fresh. Several of my customers ask me to change out the pan fluid every time I change their engine oil, and replace the Tip's filter every other pan drain. While that might seem excessive, the fluid is one Hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the Tip.

[GOB]

Thanks for the clarification. I will remove the pan, change the filter, top it off (±4-5 liters) and in a few months, will just drain and refill again (±4-5 liters) with hopes that I have as much clean ATF in there as possible.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks for the clarification. I will remove the pan, change the filter, top it off (±4-5 liters) and in a few months, will just drain and refill again (±4-5 liters) with hopes that I have as much clean ATF in there as possible.

Correct, plus the warm fluid draining out will also carry some of the particulates that have not been trapped in the filter. Because of the way these transmissions are designed, it is the best you can do. There is an old adage in the pollution control markets; "The solution to pollution is dilution", which aptly applies here.

[ejdoherty911]

Thank you to JFP in PA and Loren for clarifying how to perform this ATF maintenance.  I will be doing this on a 2002 C2 sometime in the next two weeks.  I will document with pics and video the entire process (start to finish) and post. 

[Meister Werks]

Sorry To bring this thread back from the dead. But I found this thread looking for the tool to filling a 997 C4 Turbo Tiptronic transmission (Mercedes 722.6 transmission). I did a ton of researching tonight on a DIY tool. The threads into the proper fill location of transmission is a 14x1.5 thread. The check valve (very simple one I might add) has a 14x1.5 thread pitch on both sides. I made a tool from a 14x1.5 female to female union (you can also use a large thick nut), a 3/8" NTP to 3/8" PTC SS fitting (or barbed fitting if you're using a Motive power bleeder) and a 12" section of 3/8" DOT air line (or any 3/8" OD hose or pipe that is rated for 20-30+ PSI). The 3/8" line fits directly into our MAC air powered transmission filling tool. Hope this helps some one.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Meister Werks