Brake Problem

[mmorgan24]

Long and short of it. Purchased the car (99 C2) last year and haven't really had any trouble at all with it (sans replacing water rez). On a whim I take it to a PCA DE at No Problem near Baton Rouge LA along with my track Toyota Supra. Go for a session and 1/2 and notice brakes are really cooking and decided to call it quits - was first time in 996 on track (stock everything!). Drive it home and take to it work for a few weeks - notice brakes are getting worse and worse. Order pads, rotors and some ATE blue.

Make time to do brake job and everything is going to plan but cannot seem to bleed brakes. Order some additional fluid just in case and try again. Still no go (pumping, vacuum bleed and pressure bleed). Order new master cylinder from thepartsbin.com and put it on (bench bled no less). No better. Order new brake booster and put it on. Not really better but notice when car is OFF the brakes are good all the time and with car ON brakes are minimal most of the time. Disconnect vacuum from booster (plugging vacuum line to and from) and brakes are awesome - hook it back up and brake pedal is inconsistent (long, short, spong,etc) and not safe for the road. Problem!

:cursing:

I think it has to do with the source of the vacuum for the brakes (there doesn't seem to be a vacuum leak as car runs fine). I don't have a manual (probably get a 997 soon) and don't really feel like taking it to my "local dealer" as they are clueless and will just start replacing things (they make me mad!).

What can I check or replace next? I saw something about a check valve and pressure tank on the vacuum diagram on the engine lid. IDEAS? Class? Class? Anyone? I work on all my "rides" and have the necessary tools, equipment and information to most everything - I hated to ask this question but I am stuck without a book to help point me in the right direction. I have no problems with working on motorcycles or turbocharged monsters but I've met my match with the German engineering.

PS: The rennlist.com forum is great but the search didn't really have anything. The guys over there told me to crosspost it here. I looked around and didn't really see anything here regarding this issue.

Thanks in advance!

__________________

- Marshall | 99 996 C2 | Mirage Metallic, B&M SS, S03's

[ar38070]

If you do not get any answer here then talk to your local PCA buddies and find out who are the good local non-dealer porsche repair shops and then talk to them or have them do the diagnosis.

[Loren]

Long and short of it. Purchased the car (99 C2) last year and haven't really had any trouble at all with it (sans replacing water rez). On a whim I take it to a PCA DE at No Problem near Baton Rouge LA along with my track Toyota Supra. Go for a session and 1/2 and notice brakes are really cooking and decided to call it quits - was first time in 996 on track (stock everything!). Drive it home and take to it work for a few weeks - notice brakes are getting worse and worse. Order pads, rotors and some ATE blue. 

Make time to do brake job and everything is going to plan but cannot seem to bleed brakes. Order some additional fluid just in case and try again. Still no go (pumping, vacuum bleed and pressure bleed). Order new master cylinder from thepartsbin.com and put it on (bench bled no less). No better. Order new brake booster and put it on. Not really better but notice when car is OFF the brakes are good all the time and with car ON brakes are minimal most of the time. Disconnect vacuum from booster (plugging vacuum line to and from) and brakes are awesome - hook it back up and brake pedal is inconsistent (long, short, spong,etc) and not safe for the road. Problem!

:cursing: 

I think it has to do with the source of the vacuum for the brakes (there doesn't seem to be a vacuum leak as car runs fine). I don't have a manual (probably get a 997 soon) and don't really feel like taking it to my "local dealer" as they are clueless and will just start replacing things (they make me mad!). 

What can I check or replace next? I saw something about a check valve and pressure tank on the vacuum diagram on the engine lid. IDEAS? Class? Class? Anyone? I work on all my "rides" and have the necessary tools, equipment and information to most everything - I hated to ask this question but I am stuck without a book to help point me in the right direction. I have no problems with working on motorcycles or turbocharged monsters but I've met my match with the German engineering.

PS: The rennlist.com forum is great but the search didn't really have anything.  The guys over there told me to crosspost it here.  I looked around and didn't really see anything here regarding this issue.

Thanks in advance!

__________________

- Marshall | 99 996 C2 | Mirage Metallic, B&M SS, S03's

6 speed or Tip?

Does the car have Traction Control or LSD?

[mmorgan24]

6 speed or Tip?

Does the car have Traction Control or LSD?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry! 6sp with traction control. No LSD.

PS: I also "drove" the car on a lift so trac would go on in case air was trapped in the system as well. Just an idea. In addition, I did not bleed the clutch at that time.

[Loren]

Well, you might try to find an independent shop with a PST2 so they can read out any ABS or TC faults (stuck valve?). Plus they can activate the ABS and TC pumps during bleeding with a PST2.

[mmorgan24]

Well, you might try to find an independent shop with a PST2 so they can read out any ABS or TC faults (stuck valve?). Plus they can activate the ABS and TC pumps during bleeding with a PST2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.... as predicted my local dealership that totally sucks (too long a story to tell) says after two weeks and 3 calls to me that they cannot bleed the brakes either. Wanted to know what I could suggest. I told them I took it to them as I couldn't find the problem in the first place (even after replacing the master cylinder and brake booster). Still not fixed. I told them I will not pick the car up until the brakes are safe for the road and gave them permission to do whatever to fix it. Car presents no codes just a very inconsistent pedal (especially when running).

I also asked them to fix a problem with water coming in the car when it rains (both floorboards soaked) - they said it was drain ducts (like they did last year). I told them it still leaks and I tested the drains and they work fine. Told them to replace the sunroom seals as a precaution (both) and after asking them twice to do it they did just that - almost - replaced only the seal on the chassis not the roof. ARG!

I also asked them to fix a problem with both windows rattling in its' track when driving down the road (rolled up or down). They said to investigate the problem both doors had to come off at a cost of $130 each to remove and replace the door panels. Said fine (they must be very slow) - then they call me and tell me the "door rattles" were fixed as the speakers were loose and something else. I said and they wrote down "window" rattles yet the technician (YES JUST ONE THERE!) thinks something is fixed as he didn't listen to the problem - I asked the SA what was done on the window and he stated nothing. I informed him that if I drove the car off the lot (if the brakes are ever fixed) and the windows rattled as I desc in my original complaint that I would drive it right back there and ask them to fix it again and I wouldn't expect to pay anything additional as they didn't do what I asked in the first place.

Whew..... alright. Time to get on a plane to go to SEMA - maybe that will get my mind off this problem. I wish I never purchased the **** thing. I always wanted one and with many cars already under my belt and in my pocket I assumed it would be an enjoyable lifelong dream car - it's been nothing of the sort and the dealership has only made it worse.

Ideas? PCNA?

[mmorgan24]

Ideas?  PCNA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that anyone is watching this thread ... but the ONE tech they do have that works on Porsche's hasn't fixed it yet and "will be out all week in training." That means this Friday will make three weeks since I took it in. I have zero hope that it will be fixed in a reasonable timeframe - they want my permission to start replacing parts - I assume that means they will want me to pay for their fishing expedition - I don't think so.

Isn't there someone at PCNA I can talk to? Don't the Porsche Techs have some sort of escalation proceedure with PC?

[bet]

God your situation sounds familiar (not the problem but the dealer experience). I would suggest contacting the district rep for PCNA in your area. I would ask nicely at the dealership to speak with him first. If they are not receptive to the problem then call PCNA. Also asking your local PCA who the rep is for the area. The region reps are more likely to get something done. Good luck with your quest (been there done that with a Boxster).

[mmorgan24]

God your situation sounds familiar (not the problem but the dealer experience).  I would suggest contacting the district rep for PCNA in your area.  I would ask nicely at the dealership to speak with him first.  If they are not receptive to the problem then call PCNA.  Also asking your local PCA who the rep is for the area.  The region reps are more likely to get something done.  Good luck with your quest (been there done that with a Boxster).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More info. Today is the 30 day anniversary! That's right - 30 days at the dealership. Still not fixed. He mentioned a TSB regarding the brake booster - #4470. Anyone have a copy of it? I cannot seem to find it on the net.

Thanks.

[Loren]

From TSB 4407

Due to a modification in the body firewall, the brake booster bellows and seal at the body fire wall was changed during model year '00 (Y). Replacement brake boosters are only available with the latest style bellows. The vehicles that will require modification when replacing the brake booster were produced before September 13, 1999.