Trading in A4 for Boxster - Help

[sapsecurity01]

Hi everyone.

I'm considering (strongly) trading in my 2006 Audi A4 on a CPO Boxster before the end of the year. I'm looking at '06, '07 and '08 Boxsters and would like some advice. I have read all of the information I can find on the engine issues, possible causes and preventative maintenance. As long as I have some factory warranty and a CPO warranty I'm comfortable with this.

As I am new to Porsche what should I look for and more importantly, what should I look out for in terms of abuse and neglect? In your expert opinions, what options are the best or most important to you? What visible signs of damage or potential trouble should I look for? I realize it will require expensive maintenance and repairs over time. I would like to stay away from the obvious lemon or problem cars if possible.

The posts in the forum have answered most of my questions - any buying advice would be greatly appreciated.

Todd

[jthailer]

I just spent several months researching used Boxsters and wound up purchasing a 2003 Boxster S with 28k miles. For my purposes it is a third car which I want to occassionally autocross and track. I drove a dozen 986 and 987 cars. I found that the 986 S version was a more spirited driving car than the non-S 987. If the car is going to be a daily driver I would strongly consider the regular 987. If you are using as a third car like me I would suggest the 986S or a 987S if you can afford it.

Don't forget to look at the seat backs in the boxster. If it has the sport seats, more likely than not the back of the seat will be all scuffed. I recently saw a 2007 987S with 5k miles where the driver's seat back was all scuffed.

[number9ine]

Welcome! Since you've already read around a bit, I'll skip the part about searching. :D This site is a great resource, so are others like ppbb.com, and some of the users' DIY pages.

Boxsters are generally very reliable cars. You should be looking for the lowest mileage example you can find in your price range. It's nice to have CPO warranty, but there are aftermarket warranties that are equivalent compared to the premium you pay at the dealer for CPO. When things do go wrong, here's what does:

• RMS - The rear main seal can leak, causing oil to drip at the bellhousing. Mostly an annoyance, but worth checking out.
  
• AOS - The air/oil separator can fail, causing a spectacular display of white smoke and rough running. Cheap part if you do it yourself (<$150), $600 if an OPC (dealer) does it out of warranty. Sign of impending failure is small bursts of white smoke at startup (although this is normal if the car sits for an extended period or is parked on an incline).
  
• Clutch - High performance means accelerated clutch wear. It'll show in extremely high or low takeup. The throwout bearing can wear, evidenced by a very hard clutch pedal.
  
• Top issues - pre-2003 models have a plastic rear window that will fog and crack over time. 2003+ boxsters have a glass rear window and defogger, as well as a third support in the top frame that makes the profile a bit different. You can buy aftermarket glass tops for around $1000-1500 installed. Top cabling can bind, motors can break, etc., so be sure to listen to each top as it goes down and up. Look for undue stutter when lowering (one or two shimmies as it starts off are fine), listen for any straining in the top motor, and check for problems with latching at the front or canvas fitting over the window hoops. All of these can be addressed with some top maintenance.
  
• MAF - higher-mileage cars may wind up with a fouled MAF, which can lead to poor performance, MILs (the "Check Engine" light) and other failures. Read up on how to clean, it's an easy DIY.
  
• IMS failures - From what I hear these are more common in the 996s, but good to know nonetheless. The Intermediate Shaft Bearing (IMS) can fail due to what some consider a faulty design, and can turn your engine into a useless hunk of metal. There's no symptoms you can see without tearing down the engine. There are folks like Flat 6 Innovations who will install upgraded IMS bearings at a cost that's cheaper than a reman engine from Porsche, but it's upfront money for an unknown possibility. As long as you're within warranty and don't abuse your car, Porsche will cover this problem if it happens to you.
  
• Expansion tank and cap - these are both prone to failure and being in the rear trunk will cause a messy coolant spill. The cap is the biggest culprit even on the later 986s, can't speak for 987. Best just to buy one and screw it on at $40. If you can, pull the carpet and foam up on the right to look for any coolant.
  

Always get a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) from a reputable indy mechanic or OPC, your local PCA region can help you choose one. A good service history is a plus. Check the wear items like brakes and tires, they'll cost you. If the tires are new, consider getting a 4-wheel alignment to ensure the best life. If you plan to track the car, be sure to budget for the additional safety items such as rollbar extender (if your club/region requires), fire extinguisher, etc. If you get a tiptronic model you may consider a fluid flush short of the 90k mark, my wife's Tip boxster got flushed at 65k and it made a huge difference in the transmission's feel and performance. She tracks the car, so you may not need this.

Some obvious trouble signs you should look for are: uneven wear on the tires, play in the camber, "cheese grater" syndrome on the drilled S brakes (will require new rotors sooner than later), overspray lines in the doorjambs and hood/trunk lines, ill-fit body parts like fender, bumper cover, etc., excess white residue on the tailpipe, leaking oil, leaking coolant, "french toast" smell in the trunk, tears in the top, tears in the interior. Look for a car that has the nicest possible paint and interior, it's your money so buy the best. If you like options, some of the popular ones are: 18's on the 986 (1997-2004), 19's on the 987 (2005+), Bose (if you like hearing your radio with the top down), nav (if you get lost often), Litronic headlamps (much better night visibility), full leather (on the dash, door cards, seat backs, console and pillars), and PSM/PASM/Sport Chrono (availability varies by year). I like the heated seats because we have winter here, not sure where you are.

The base Boxster is fun, the S is a little more serious. While it's no supercar, you're never wanting for power in the S. The base is more than adequate (if you get a 2000+ 986 or a 987, it's got some extra displacement and power too). Both engines are rev-happy and screamers at the limit, I've owned and tracked each and they're a hoot. I drive a 997 S now, and sometimes I miss the balance in my old Boxster S. Thankfully I can steal my wife's and take a ride.

Take your time. It's winter and a buyer's market, so you should have no problem finding what you want. Don't be afraid to travel a bit for the right car, right color, right options, etc. Enjoy the ride!

HTH,

Mark

[whall]

Todd,

If you haven't already seen Mike Focke's web site....check it out:

http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/mi...boxsterwebpages

There's more information there than in any other site I know of (not including RennTech, of course).

Cheers,

Bill

[sapsecurity01]

Thank you everyone for the great advice. Going to Hendrick Porsche this weekend to test drive a few cars. If they can get me out of my Audi it's a done deal. I have read some comments on the web that the Boxster interiors, or some model years look cheap - with cheap plastic. Is this true and what years would you say this is most prevalent? One of the things I like most about my Audi is the quality of the interior trim and the fit and finish. Am I safe to assume that Porsche is the same - comparable fit and finish?

Finally, can you give me an idea of what a reasonable payment is for an '05 to '07? I know lots of variables including APR, cash down, trade etc. But would you guys say is reasonable or expectable?

Thanks again!

[White987S]

Before you buy any 987 Boxster, ask for the printout from the DME and look at the number of ignitions in the 6 ranges. There may be some ignitions in range 1 and 2. But there should not be any in range 4-6. There may be some in range 3 but this would indicate abuse, and a car you should pass on.

You ask about a "reasonable payment is for an '05 to '07". My answer is $Z E R O! No one needs a Porsche. These are toys. If you can't pay cash, wait until you can. Not everyone will agree with this. But it works for me.

You should have a minimum of 10% of your purchase price in cash reserves too, to afford cost that will come up (and they will!), to sort out your new car.

Have you looked into your insurance cost (increases)? Something else to consider.

[stef]

Insurance isn't too bad on the boxster.

Maintenance is pretty bad, though. Repairs are not cheap, and tires are also expensive. An oil change is $200-300 (9 quarts of synthetic!), although it only needs to be done every 20k miles or so.

[number9ine]

Insurance isn't too bad on the boxster.

Maintenance is pretty bad, though. Repairs are not cheap, and tires are also expensive. An oil change is $200-300 (9 quarts of synthetic!), although it only needs to be done every 20k miles or so.

Stef, who's changing your oil? $130 at my indy, or less if I do myself.

Sap, I was a car salesman in a former life and can tell you this: NEVER give the dealer a monthly payment to work with. If you're financing the best thing to do is determine what you can afford in your monthly budget, then shop for a loan somewhere other than the dealer. It would be one thing if you were shopping new and could take advantage of a manufacturer APR special, but on used cars your best bet is usually a local credit union.

Take these steps:

1. Find a credit union near you. Get the lowest APR from their site on a used vehicle finance for the term you prefer.
   
2. Plug that rate into an auto finance calculator online along with your monthly payment limit.
   
3. Enter the equity (if any) you have in your Audi under the "trade-in" box.
   
4. Make sure you factor in tax, license and dealer fees. When you're done you should have a maximum purchase price.
   
5. Go find cars that fall under that max price, or a little outside if they're very nice examples. Haggle down. Most used Boxsters will have $2000-5000 worth of wiggle room in this economy.
   

If your credit isn't so great, don't let it be an excuse to keep you from trying the method above. If you must rely on the dealer for financing, agree on a purchase price BEFORE you discuss financing. Dealers make 1-3 percentage points on a typical finance deal, meaning that if you get "bought" by their finance company at 5% you could end up paying 8%. Find out your credit score before you set foot in the dealer to know what the ballpark APR range will be. You can negotiate your finance terms!

White987 is right, you shouldn't be considering this purchase unless you have ready cash reserves for maintenance and repairs. Tires alone cost $800-1200 and you'll get all of 15k out of them if you drive hot. Brake pads and rotors are the best in the business and their replacements ain't cheap. Read this forum to save yourself some bucks on these and other easy maintenance you can do yourself.

Good hunting!

Mark

[phillipj]

An oil change is $200-300 (9 quarts of synthetic!), although it only needs to be done every 20k miles or so.

Huh? :huh: No one should pay over $150 for an oil change and if you want help your engine last change the oil every 5k miles.

:cheers:

[stephen wilson]

I just bought an MY06 CPO Boxster, and agree with most of the previous advice. Only you can decide how much you can afford a month. I had $10K to put down, and a max. of $425 montly payments. I used an on-line payment calculator (cars.com or other) to determine what total price , with tax & tags, would end up at my $425/month. That was my deal-breaker price point. I have no other debts , other than a mortgage, so I didn't feel I needed to wait 4 more years to pay cash.

BTW, the 2.9% Porsche financing offered on CPO cars was better than I could find anywhere, but I'm not sure how long it will continue to be offered. I made the sale contingant upon loan approval at 2.9%.

Options I would have liked: Bose stereo with controls on the steering wheel, (Though the sound package+ is pretty good), Tire pressure monitor, possibly automatic temperature control, sport exhaust, S model.

Favorite options I did get: Power seats with memory, Heated seats, auto wipers/auto dimming mirrors, 18" wheels, Xenon.

A PPI would still be a good idea, even on a CPO car, dealers seem to do as little as possible to get it out the door.

Good luck, It truly is a fun car!

Steve

Edited December 19, 2009 by stephen wilson

[sapsecurity01]

Awesome replies and advice from everyone.

First, everyone seems to warn about the maintenance costs of Porsches. Items such as brakes, tires, oil changes etc and etc. Tires for my Audi are $500+, my oil changes are $120+ and tires for my wife's Jeep will be easily be $600+. I do not see the cost of Porsche maintenance as that much higher than what I already pay or will be paying in the near future. Now if the frequency of tires, brakes and oil changes increased dramatically that would be a little different. I change the oil in my Audi every 5K, current brakes and tires are still good. I'm not overly concerned with having a $5,000 rainy day Porsche fund.

My wife is not overly thrilled with me spending more money on a car - she just doesn't get it. I have waited a very long time for this. I've worked extremely hard to get to the point in my life and career where I can realistically afford a Porsche. To be honest I have to be selfish on this one and do what I want and what I have worked for. We have maybe $3K in credit card debt, a reasonable mortgage and her Jeep payment - that's it. So if I want to purchase a Boxster and my payment rises $100 who cares and what does it hurt? I make over 6 figures alone and while a perm SAP geek contractor, feel comfortable buying one. If we save as much as we spend who or what is hurt?

Where can I find a sample DME to review and learn how to read and analyze it? Is this something that I can find online? Should I befriend a Porsche tech for a copy of one?

Thanks again.

[White987S]

Where can I find a sample DME to review and learn how to read and analyze it? Is this something that I can find online? Should I befriend a Porsche tech for a copy of one?

Thanks again.

Here is a sample of a DME report (not mine):

Sample_DME_Report.pdf

[number9ine]

Awesome replies and advice from everyone.

First, everyone seems to warn about the maintenance costs of Porsches. Items such as brakes, tires, oil changes etc and etc. Tires for my Audi are $500+, my oil changes are $120+ and tires for my wife's Jeep will be easily be $600+. I do not see the cost of Porsche maintenance as that much higher than what I already pay or will be paying in the near future. Now if the frequency of tires, brakes and oil changes increased dramatically that would be a little different. I change the oil in my Audi every 5K, current brakes and tires are still good. I'm not overly concerned with having a $5,000 rainy day Porsche fund.

My wife is not overly thrilled with me spending more money on a car - she just doesn't get it. I have waited a very long time for this. I've worked extremely hard to get to the point in my life and career where I can realistically afford a Porsche. To be honest I have to be selfish on this one and do what I want and what I have worked for. We have maybe $3K in credit card debt, a reasonable mortgage and her Jeep payment - that's it. So if I want to purchase a Boxster and my payment rises $100 who cares and what does it hurt? I make over 6 figures alone and while a perm SAP geek contractor, feel comfortable buying one. If we save as much as we spend who or what is hurt?

Where can I find a sample DME to review and learn how to read and analyze it? Is this something that I can find online? Should I befriend a Porsche tech for a copy of one?

Thanks again.

The recommended oil change interval on the Boxster is 12k or one year, whichever comes first. This comes from the owner's manual and OPC. If you track the car I recommend a more frequent oil change interval.

Tires for the Boxster will cost up to twice what your A4's tires cost; they'll last 1/2 to 2/3 as long as your A4's do (unless you're running summer rubber on your A4). Brakes need bleeding every 2 years, and major service intervals are 30/60/90k depending on what you consider to be "major." Clutch job is $1400ish at an indy mechanic and depending on your foot you may need it done as soon as every 30k. Best brakes on the planet, but they eat pads if you use 'em like I do. Track pads are $$ and last much longer, but are very noisy. If you drive year-round in cold climates, a set of snows or all-seasons with used wheels will set you back $1200 or so.

The maintenance schedule is more rigid, the wear items wear faster unless you drive like Miss Daisy's riding shotgun, and the parts are more expensive. It will cost more and you should budget in accordance.

In my opinion it's good to be selfish, so long as it isn't to the detriment of your well-being or the well-being of others (you know, "my preeecioussssss"). If you know what you can afford and how you can afford it, go for it. I'm 30 years old and on my second P-car; I bought both used for screamin' deals and counted the pennies I spent with excessive care. I put a lot of cash upfront, but I pay a bank every month and am not ashamed to admit it.

My advice on any car you buy: Don't fall prey to a payment you can't afford (DP+tax+ins+payment), or the car will be so much sour milk. I got the best interest rate on my loan, put up significant equity and shopped within a budget I set for myself beforehand (OK, OK, I went a little above that budget, but sacrificed a few other toys to settle up). Be rational about the purchase so you can be emotional about the car. And DON'T p!$$ off your wife for the sake of a car. She's forever, it's only metal. I'm extremely lucky that my wife understands my habit and shares in it! Find a way to make this common ground with your Mrs. and all will be well in your universe.

Best of luck!

Mark

[phillipj]

+1 :clapping:

[phillipj]

My wife is not overly thrilled with me spending more money on a car - she just doesn't get it.

Like my wife she probably does consider that a $1800 handbag is a "good investment". :huh: My trick is to buy her something nice and then buy toys for my habit. That seems to do the trick....

Good luck and I hope you find an awesome car. You work hard and you deserve it

:cheers:

[sapsecurity01]

I didn't realize they went through tires and brakes so quickly. I might drive with passion but wouldn't say I am overly hard on either. No immediate plans to track it - geez.....does State Farm cover racing damage? My wife is supportive and I would never choose the car over her. She asked tonight if she would be able to drive it.....Ummmm how do I answer this? Any advice :)

Found a CPO for about $28, tip, 19" wheels, no Bose, no xenons but leather and heated seats etc. Great service records and new tires, front rotors and pads and the 40K service was already performed. Think this might be the one - going to look at it this weekend. I have a strict budget for the monthly payment and what APR I will accept. Yes, I would kill for this beautiful little car now but will wait if the deal isn't right.

Gotta say this is the best site/forum I have seen yet. The Audi forum I belong to is a joke - nice to see an active and helpful community!

Todd

[number9ine]

No immediate plans to track it - geez.....does State Farm cover racing damage?

Probably not. Google "track insurance" and check out the pca.org website to check out coverage. For a typical DE event it's $2-300. Don't do something silly like asking State Farm on the phone, you probably don't want that in their call notes. An informal conversation with your local agent is best.

My wife is supportive and I would never choose the car over her. She asked tonight if she would be able to drive it.....Ummmm how do I answer this? Any advice :)

My answer would be: Heck yes! Ride along and watch her grin. The cars are meant to be driven and I'll give anyone a shot in the driver seat of my car as long as they can drive manual. Worst case is she catches the bug and you need to work some overtime...

Found a CPO for about $28, tip, 19" wheels, no Bose, no xenons but leather and heated seats etc. Great service records and new tires, front rotors and pads and the 40K service was already performed. Think this might be the one - going to look at it this weekend. I have a strict budget for the monthly payment and what APR I will accept. Yes, I would kill for this beautiful little car now but will wait if the deal isn't right.

Gotta say this is the best site/forum I have seen yet. The Audi forum I belong to is a joke - nice to see an active and helpful community!

Todd

Go drive it and see how it feels, some P-car dealers will let you drive alone depending on their comfort level and insurance. Go top up, top down, get the RPMs up, take it on some twisties. Get on the brakes hard when no one's around, you want a pedal with firm initial bite and progressive action. Listen to the car, there will be some squeaks from the top over bumps but all you should hear otherwise is motor. Check for underbody leaks, excessive wear on the interior/exterior, etc. It's usually not possible that anything other than a bumper cover is re-painted on a CPO car from the dealer, but you can ask them to run over it with a paint meter while you watch.

If you like to hear your music with the top down, Bose is a big help and it's expensive to substitute if you don't get it. Leather and full leather are different, the latter covers door cards, dash, and a few other areas. Newer base 987s have a top grain leather that isn't as nice IMO as the smooth nappa-style leather they use in on the upkit models. The top grain stuff is in my VW wagon and while it wears well and smells OK, it's no comparison to the leather in my 911. Xenon lights are nice to have, but they've spoiled me on the halogens which work 95% as well. A hardtop is a plus if you can find one. it's quieter than the softtop and less susceptible to wear in bad weather.

28k buys a lot of Boxster, shop around. For that money you could be looking at some nice 996s (prev. generation 911) with similar mileage, so why not drive one for the sake of comparison? The Boxster's more neutral and "tossable," the 911 more powerful. Drive a 986 and 987 S and non-S, the older model should be a $4k+ savings and is still a lot of car.

Think about the 18s if you get into a 987, the 19s have a harder ride and are mostly for aesthetics. I recall reading something, maybe in Panorama, about a Porsche engineer who worked on the 987 and was quoted as preferring the 18s for handling. Tires are more expensive on the 19s so you save a bit of coin too.

:renntech: I learn something new every time I log in.

Mark

[danieldolin]

+1 on the BOSE being a must if you enjoy listening to music with the top down... Make sure you try out the radio on your test drive to make sure you can hear the music with the drop top. I found it hard when I drove one w/o the BOSE.

I ended up with a 2007 CPO 987S this past summer and hardly any regrets... other than the fact that it is now in the garage leaving me with a monthly payment and my daily driver out in the snow this winter!

My wife does not understand it either... the only good thing is that she is accepting of it as long as she still gets the other side of the garage :clapping:

Go for it, it is a great car and you will enjoy... Maintanance should not be bad as long as you do not abuse it... My local dealer will change the oil for $150 out the door, and that lasts for the year... minor and major maintaince as scheduled are a bit more expensive, but that is only every 2 and 4 years...

Get a late model CPO like I did and you should have a warranty that covers everyting for the next 4 years (make sure you check the in service date, a 2007 may not have been sold until 2008 etc...) that way, besides the scheduled maintanace, it will be payed off before you have to shell out any major expenses for repair...

Edited December 22, 2009 by danieldolin

[stephen wilson]

I would definately let your wife drive the car ( If she knows how to drive a manual transmission! ) . My wife didn't really "get it" either, until she drove the car, then her comment was, " it is sweet! "

Of course, there are limits, I didn't let here take her mom to breakfast with it. I couldn't bear the thought of her parking it at a Bob Evans!

[jlamb]

I would definately let your wife drive the car ( If she knows how to drive a manual transmission! ) . My wife didn't really "get it" either, until she drove the car, then her comment was, " it is sweet! "

Of course, there are limits, I didn't let here take her mom to breakfast with it. I couldn't bear the thought of her parking it at a Bob Evans!

Be careful the car will hook you right in,,, so what. If you can afford it, want it, and can afford to keep it up, do what NIKE says, "Just Do It". I did. Always wanted a Porsche since I rented a 944 in 1983 for my honeymoon in Hawaii. Got the bug then and have had it ever since. Two kids in college. a mortgage on a new home, 2 other small car payments, and a appetite for speed that needed to be feed after 24 years. Went out bought a new 09 Boxster S, paid cash, got a killer deal, and thus far the car has been pretty sweet to me. A couple of oil changes, front marker lights were loose, tires need better balancing, some radio issues, but nothing major. Who needs a radio when you have the finely tuned exhaust of a Porsche singing in your ears. I'm a year into it now and have absolutely no regrets. If summer doesn't get here soon I'm moving to Florida just to drive.

By the way insurance was a minimal addition to the family plan. All that said it really is a luxury and should be treated as such. Don't be fooled, repairs will pop up and be relatively expensive compared to the average car. If you want it for winter driving you will need winter tires, (more money). winter conditions will also led to sooner repairs as well If you feel OK with all that then join the club. PCA does have some good listings on line for comparison if not purchase. I haven't regretted one second, when I'm not driving it I spend stupid amounts of time reading Porsche books and forums like this one. Then I go stand in my garage and stair at it for an hour or so. Yes I'm sick, but I'm happy. PS and so far my wife doesn't drive it :D