2005 model year problems

[halsyknox]

I'm looking into getting a 2005 low mile 911 (around 20k). Some of the posts on the forum say to steer clear of 2005 because of inherent problems. Are 2005 997s something to stay away from? Would a good low mileage 2004 996 be better or a higher mileage 2006 (I like the looks of the 997 better than 996)? Also, what are the warranties that come with the cars and has anyone got an extended warranty? Was the extended through Porsche or independent company? Thanks for any help

[malves533]

I'm looking into getting a 2005 low mile 911 (around 20k). Some of the posts on the forum say to steer clear of 2005 because of inherent problems. Are 2005 997s something to stay away from? Would a good low mileage 2004 996 be better or a higher mileage 2006 (I like the looks of the 997 better than 996)? Also, what are the warranties that come with the cars and has anyone got an extended warranty? Was the extended through Porsche or independent company? Thanks for any help

I bought a 2005 997 back in August with 25K miles. I did purchase an extended warranty from my credit union, just in case something major failed on the car. My warranty covers me up to 90k miles - cost me about $1500. Put about 4k miles on it and havent had a issue (keeping my fingers crossed). I believe the biggest issue with the MY2005 is the IMS failure (not an expert but have seen several posts about this issue); I plan to do more frequent oil changes and keep up on the maintenance of the car, also a website recommended using 5W30 oil rather than 0W30 (anyone have any ideas about this?)

[phillipj]

Like any first model year the 05's have had their issues. Mostly with engines. Porsche had it's worst engine build year in 2005. You would be better off getting and 06. Porsche made improvements to the IMS (and other areas as well I think.).

I personally would step up to the 997 rather than a 996.

And yes try to get a Porsche warranty. I have seen several low mile 06 "S" Carreras for around $50k.. The base Carreras even lower. Now is a great time to shop for a car.. If you find one at a dealer I'm sure you could work out a deal (with a warranty..) They really want to move their used inventory with the 2010's coming in.

If you find one at a private party look into a warranty company called "Easy Care". Of all the 3rd party warranty companies they seem to have the best reputation. Here is the link... http://easycare.com/benefits/products/vehi...rvice-contracts.

Be patient and look around. I have an 06 and it's an awesome car. Try to find one with the Sports Chrono and the PSE. You'll be glad you did..

Good luck!

Edited December 2, 2009 by phillipj

[dphatch]

I'm looking into getting a 2005 low mile 911 (around 20k). Some of the posts on the forum say to steer clear of 2005 because of inherent problems. Are 2005 997s something to stay away from? Would a good low mileage 2004 996 be better or a higher mileage 2006 (I like the looks of the 997 better than 996)? Also, what are the warranties that come with the cars and has anyone got an extended warranty? Was the extended through Porsche or independent company? Thanks for any help

I bought a 2005 997 back in August with 25K miles. I did purchase an extended warranty from my credit union, just in case something major failed on the car. My warranty covers me up to 90k miles - cost me about $1500. Put about 4k miles on it and havent had a issue (keeping my fingers crossed). I believe the biggest issue with the MY2005 is the IMS failure (not an expert but have seen several posts about this issue); I plan to do more frequent oil changes and keep up on the maintenance of the car, also a website recommended using 5W30 oil rather than 0W30 (anyone have any ideas about this?)

I believe 5W 40 was the recommendation as that weight was the only one approved in 2005. 0W 40 was added in 2006. Both oils are approved weights for these cars depending upon ambient temps where the car is driven. The problem with the 5 W 40 is that it can be hard to find at your local auto parts store. For me the 0 W 40 is easier to get and recommended in my colder climate.

As for the IMS failure issue, while the issue gets lots of press on these web sites, I'm not sure what the actual percentage of failure rate is for these cars. My guess is it is in low single digits. Problematic if it's your car that's one of the statistics but still a low number. I do agree the warranty is an excellent way to protect yourself from the problem and at $ 1,500 was very cheap insurance indeed.

[halsyknox]

Thanks for the replys. Is the IMS failures across all engines or just one in particular?

[phillipj]

All engines.. But understand that most people thay have 05'2 have had no issues.. But I wouldn't touch and 05 without a warranty...

[bjereb]

Have an 05 MY with no problems. Would go with a 997 over a 996. Porsche historically improves the model year after year.

[ghollett1]

997 have lower overall maintanence requirements then 996, more power and much nicer/better quality interior.

[Loren]

997 have lower overall maintanence requirements then 996, more power and much nicer/better quality interior.

Sorry, I can not agree with that statement.

Maintenance is the same - power differences are minor and interiors are not much different in quality. Design differences - yes, but quality no.

[geoff]

997 have lower overall maintanence requirements then 996, more power and much nicer/better quality interior.

I have an '05 997 that is my wife's daily driver. Despite all the items noted in prior posts on first year problems, the car has been problem free, and compared to a friend's 40 anniversary 911 (996), the interior seems to be put together a little better in terms of how things fit.

In 2005, Porsche upped the oil change interval from 15K miles to 20K miles. I've never seen anything official saying Mobil 1 is rated for 20K miles. The Mobil 1 Extended Performance (which isn't available in the right grade for Porsches) is rated to up to 15K miles on the Mobil 1 web site, but nothing is stated about mileage rating for regular Mobil 1. I have changed the oil about every 7K miles. Interestingly enough, Porsche seems to have quietly changed some of the maintenance interval requirements for the 996 (e.g., oil from 15K miles to 12K miles), making the 997 appear to have even lower overall maintenance requirements. See http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesands...nanceintervals/ and then click on the link to download the PDF for the maintenance intervals. You can see the 996 and 997 maintenance requirements right next to each other. And then in 2008 the maintenance requirements were greatly increased. Draw your own conclusions...

[Loren]

Yes, Porsche changed from 15,000 miles on the 996 to 20,000 miles on the 997-1 and then back to 10,000 miles on the 997-2.

Read some of the problems Mercedes and Toyota have had with long oil change intervals and engine damage caused by sludge. Both have had class action lawsuits.

Whether you drive a Toyota or a Porsche I don't really think you want to go too far or too long between oil changes.

[Hamad]

Yes, Porsche changed from 15,000 miles on the 996 to 20,000 miles on the 997-1 and then back to 10,000 miles on the 997-2.

Read some of the problems Mercedes and Toyota have had with long oil change intervals and engine damage caused by sludge. Both have had class action lawsuits.

Whether you drive a Toyota or a Porsche I don't really think you want to go too far or too long between oil changes.

What are the recommended time and/or miles to avoid this?

[Loren]

I change my oil at roughly half the recommended interval. Not because I want to waste money but because my car is driven hard and then may sit for a week or more. So moisture and contaminates are your oils enemy. It is very cheap insurance (IMHO) to change your oil before the recommended schedule.

[number9ine]

997 have lower overall maintanence requirements then 996, more power and much nicer/better quality interior.

Sorry, I can not agree with that statement.

Maintenance is the same - power differences are minor and interiors are not much different in quality. Design differences - yes, but quality no.

Loren's right, the quality is even for 996 and 997, and everything else is close. Aesthetically, some prefer the 997's interior and exterior as it has more ties to "classic" 911s than the 996 does. I like the way both look.

The base (non-full-leather) 996 interior materials feel like a step down in quality as compared to the base 997, even though assembly is drum-tight and everything holds up well. Cover either one in full leather and they're both very comfortable places to be.

The OP should get the best possible car he can for his money. If that money buys a 997, I say go for it because they'll be younger and a bit more powerful if you opt for the S. If not, you can't go wrong with a 996. Everything else is down to personal preference. Things like IMS failures are relatively uncommon and no one has hard numbers on failure rates, but it's been known to happen on 996s and '05 997s before they changed the IMS design. Get a PPI and warranty to reduce potential failure modes and associated costs.

Mark

[geoff]

Yes, Porsche changed from 15,000 miles on the 996 to 20,000 miles on the 997-1 and then back to 10,000 miles on the 997-2.

Read some of the problems Mercedes and Toyota have had with long oil change intervals and engine damage caused by sludge. Both have had class action lawsuits.

Whether you drive a Toyota or a Porsche I don't really think you want to go too far or too long between oil changes.

15K miles is what my '01 Boxster maintenance manual says for an oil change (and 60K miles for the fuel filter, etc.). If you look at the Porsche maintenance summary PDF referenced in my earlier post, Porsche magically changed the maintenance intervals for a number of items relative to when the cars were new (more frequent maintenance now). Which tells me either there are two sets of recommended maintenance intervals and someone used a different one from what we were all originally told, or Porsche was overly optimistic in their original maintenance schedules and found it was causing higher than acceptable failure rates

[RFM]

There exist a list, concerning the maintenance intervals, it has to do with the fuel quality. Some countries, as North America and others, use minor fuel quality than West Europe, that's why they have changed the intervals, at least according to the memo.

[utkinpol]

I'm looking into getting a 2005 low mile 911 (around 20k). Some of the posts on the forum say to steer clear of 2005 because of inherent problems. Are 2005 997s something to stay away from? Would a good low mileage 2004 996 be better or a higher mileage 2006 (I like the looks of the 997 better than 996)? Also, what are the warranties that come with the cars and has anyone got an extended warranty? Was the extended through Porsche or independent company? Thanks for any help

Here and on rennlist and just this week on 6speedonline there is constantly somebody who has '05 car and engine failure due to IMS bearings. So if you really like that '05 car - get it with CPO warranty. Nevertheless, just in that last week case guy did not have warranty and got his engine replaced by Porsche and had to pay just $3K for labor costs - which is a lot too but less than $20K for new motor.

If I were you (as I were last summer) - I would pass on any '05 car. In the beginning of 2006 all 997 engines started receiving single row IMS bearing that has less issues with lubrication compared to original double row bearing in earlier models. Based from 3 different forum activities I have not yet seen a single complaint from owner of MY '06+ car related to IMS failure. There is no guarantee of that, but, fact is fact - there is nobody yet on 06+ car who would get this problem.

So - when I had a chance to get better optioned 05 C2S I went with 06 C2. It will cost a bit more but I think it will worth it. Also, try to get a CPO car if you can.

Edited December 30, 2009 by utkinpol

[utkinpol]

Yes, Porsche changed from 15,000 miles on the 996 to 20,000 miles on the 997-1 and then back to 10,000 miles on the 997-2.

Read some of the problems Mercedes and Toyota have had with long oil change intervals and engine damage caused by sludge. Both have had class action lawsuits.

Whether you drive a Toyota or a Porsche I don't really think you want to go too far or too long between oil changes.

What are the recommended time and/or miles to avoid this?

There is simple rule of thumb - change your oil every autumn each year just before it gets colder. At least. If you track your car you know that you need fresh oil between every new set of track days.

Buy set of Rhino ramps ($30), oil pan ($20), then get mobil 1 5w50 or similar oil and do it in your own garage. oil filter can be ordered online from suncoastporsche.com or other place.

It is very simple, really.

As of how to avoid issues - listen to engine, if hydraulics gets cloged you will hear it. Key thing here is not to ignore sudden change of engine sound. If valve lifter gets stuck you will hear it, it will knock quite loudly. Just do not ignore it.

[halsyknox]

Thanks for all the replys. I found a 2006 with 10,000 miles in my price range. Build date was 3/06. It also came Porsche Certified. So far I feel good about the purchase, but I've hardly been able to drive it, the weather around here has been crap.

[berty987]

The 2005 MY cars had the single row bearing on the IMS , only the early M96 engines had the double row bearing (found on the 986/ 996). If you read the LN engineering website on their IMS replacement kit , it soon becomes clear that porsche have been redesigning both the IMS bearing and IMS seal at an alarming rate. IMS failures on later cars are not unknown , though looking at the post 2007 issue on the boxster (with hte introduction of the M97 engine used on the cayman ) there seem to be much fewer cases with the larger single row bearing fitted to cars of this age. Conversely the early 986 boxsters with the double row bearings seem to have fewer issues too. Bear in mind that the boxster and 911 share this componet on both engines. I've yet to see all the data but its interesting that the 3.8 l S model 911 uses a similar M97 designated engine to the Cayman and Boxster 3.4 which seem to exhibit fewer IMS bearing issues.

The early boxster 987 and 3.6 L engines in the 911 (997) and previous generations of the 911 (986) all use the M96 variant engine.

Is it possible that the M97 engine or later M96 units in the 911 after 2006 use the revised bearing and IMS support found in the M97 of the cayman which appear more reliable ?

There is no definitive reason for IMS failure , some put it down to the lubrication in the bearing being washed out by the low vis oil , others suggest its due to sludge and acidity from short journies and extended oil intervals. There are suggestions of faulty assembly or manufacturing tolerances too. The shaft support is also prone to failure where the thread ends on the spigot , porsche introduced a larger spigot and revised bearing as of 2006 to address this.

I dont think there is any reason to avoid buying a 997 in favour of a 996 due to concerns with IMS failure (to me the risk is the same) , but agree a later car (post 2006) is less likely to exhibit IMS issues , due to the revised larger spigot and bearing. Experience based on the cayman and boxster suggests this modification went some way to improving IMS bearing/ shaft failures but still didn't cure the seal issue. Whichever car is purchased (even a post 2006 model) I would advise a warranty is a sensible addition. Parts and labour are expensive on these cars and with the added complexity of newer cars there is more to go wrong. As an example rear suspension arms cost in the region of 600 Uk pounds to replace, radiators 300- 400 and other parts similar money. Its relatively easy to end up with a repair bill over 1000 pounds (1500 USD) even outside of main dealer prices and labour rates.

[PAULSPEED]

LN engineering website

Sounds like you like this site.

Could you post the url for this site?

Paul

[number9ine]

Porsche had it's worst engine build year in 2005.

Cite your source, please. Although the general consensus is that '05 997s with the old bearing design have more IMS failures than '06 and up, it seems everyone's opinion is based on second- and third-hand tales, along with the occasional first-hand post here.

I'd love to see some hard numbers, as we all would. Otherwise, I'd suggest a statement like yours above is pure conjecture. My '05 runs like a beast, and I have CPO should it break.

Mark

[355bhp]

My '05 runs like a beast, and I have CPO should it break.

Mark

Mine too, and it's been doing so for 42,411 miles.

[jca3]

LN engineering website

Sounds like you like this site.

Could you post the url for this site?

Paul

Here's two good links:

http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

http://www.flat6innovations.com/saving-an-...ne-ims-retrofit

[number9ine]

My '05 runs like a beast, and I have CPO should it break.

Mark

Mine too, and it's been doing so for 42,411 miles.

Amen! Just watch out for potholes. :)

I got my car with 9900 miles on it and it's a tick over 14k now. I have some catching up to do...