Check Engine Light & fuel sensor

[fullbirdmusic]

I'm new to RennTech and this site is great! Thanks for this community.

So, I have a 2005 Cayenne S that I bought from the US (I'm an American living in Germany - Stuttgart, actually - go figure!) and picked it up last week. On Thursday after I filled the tank, the Check Engine light came on. I took it by the Porsche Center here in Stuttgart and they found out that my gas cap wasn't fastened tightly. It was the 2nd time I got gas, and I've used a car before....so I'm wondering how that happened.

Anyway, since they cleared the fault on Thursday, I was driving around on Saturday and the light came on again. I hadn't filled the tank since then, but I checked the gas cap anyway with no issues. So I didn't drive it until today when I went back to the shop and they said there is a defective fuel or vapor sensor (my German is very good, but there are still some words that fail me, so I'm not 100% sure of what exactly it is, but I'm 95% sure) and that it would need to be replaced. He couldn't tell me off the top of his head what it would cost and he didn't really have time for me because I didn't have an appointment, but does anyone have an idea of what this should cost?

I'm in Germany at the Porsche Centrum where they build other models (albeit not the Cayenne) so the parts will be there, I'm just curious what exactly could be broke and a general idea of what to expect on Thursday when I get it fixed. Thanks for any help!!

Again, I really appreciate this community (since I'm a brand-new Porsche owner!) and plan on being a productive contributing member here. Thanks again!

Wes

[odix]

I have an '04 Cayenne S and kept getting the check engine light. Replaced the gas cap (bought new from Sunset for $25) and the problem went away... If the problem is as the German dealer states then ask for the part number and you'll be able to get some pricing from the web as well as service costs. It may be worth a shot to try a new cap though. And if you have your own code reader you can confirm it's another issue.

And congrats on your new ride.

[fullbirdmusic]

Thanks so much for the tip! Where can I get a code reader and what are they called?

I'll have to call them and tell them I want to try a new fuel cap and see what they say. I'll probably just order one, but it won't arrive here before I get the car in the shop. He said that I could drive with the light on because it's not hurting anything, so maybe it can wait until I try the fuel cap.

Thanks again!

[odix]

The Porsche reader most folks on Renntech recommend is: http://www.durametric.com (I don't have one yet but plan to purchase soon.) Cayenne-specific: http://www.durametric.com/content/porsche-cayenne-955.aspx

Enthusiast Package option 1 should cover what you need -- $287.

It pays for itself -- and you may be able to locate a person in Germany that will allow you to borrow one. And also be sure to have the dealer show you what his Porsche code reader states -- it may well be a defective fuel or vapor sensor.

Good luck!

And PS -- it would be awesome if you take your Cayenne out on the autobahn and give us a report on that and life in Europe with a Cayenne; top speeds, how it handles at speed, gas prices, how many Cayenne's you see-- are there more S's or Turbo's or basic Cayenne's, etc.

Edited November 30, 2009 by odix

[fullbirdmusic]

Great - thanks for the link!! I'll have to check that out. I'm going to ask the shop what the error codes are when they hook up the machine.

I'm planning on making a video of my Cayenne on the Autobahn as soon as possible. I've met some other folks on Twitter that want to know about it because they want to switch from Volvo or something similar, so I'll definitely do that! Living in Stuttgart (Porsche headquarters) there are a TON of Porsche vehicles rolling around here, but not so many Cayennes, ironically. It might be because those are made in Leipzig and not here. The Cayennes I do see are mostly the S models.

Since I got the car last week, people have been rubber-necking non-stop and staring at the car. Driving a Porsche here in Europe is almost more prestigious than driving one in the US and I was wondering why everyone was staring at me until I remembered what I was driving!! :-o In Stuttgart it's about what you drive, what clothes you wear, and wear you live. Unfortunately, I can't afford to "keep up with the Joneses" on every front, but I sure do love driving the Cayenne and would have one whether I lived here or not. I'll probably be a Porsche driver for a very long time... :)

I'll post the video somewhere in the forum once I've got someone to hold the camera when I'm up to 100+ mph - my wife is pregnant, so she's out!!

[pcst]

Cayenne-specific: http://www.durametric.com/content/porsche-cayenne-955.aspx

Enthusiast Package option 1 should cover what you need -- $287.

Jesus, the price went up $347, $60 over night.

[Loren]

Cayenne-specific: http://www.durametric.com/content/porsche-cayenne-955.aspx

Enthusiast Package option 1 should cover what you need -- $287.

Jesus, the price went up $347, $60 over night.

No there are two options:

Option 1 -- $287

* 1 Durametric Diagnostic cable that plugs into your computer's USB port at one end and the following cars on the other end:

1996-1998 Porsche 993

1997-2004 Porsche Boxster(986)

2005-2008 Porsche Boxster(987)

1999-2004 Porsche 911 (996)

2005-2008 Porsche 911 (997)

2003-2007 Porsche Cayenne(955)

2006-2008 Porsche Cayman (987)

* Software CD

* Installation instructions

* Future software updates

* High quality, blow-molded storage case

Option 2 -- $347

This option includes the round OBD II connector for the older Porsches. (BTW... Porsche does not even sell this connector/cable any more so this had to be custom made)

Choose this option if you have a Porsche 928, 944S2, 968, 964 or 1994-1995 Porsche 993 with a round diagnostic connector. This kit also supports Porsche Boxster (986 and 987), Carrera 911 (996 and 997), Cayman, Cayenne, and/or 1996-1998 Porsche 993.

[fullbirdmusic]

Well, there was a vapor sensor that needed replacing and the gas cap. In all, I think it was $100 total including labor.

The Porsche Centrum here in Stuttgart is great - very professional and it's fast as all get-out getting parts. And the prices are actually comparable to other outlets. The thing that's killing me though, is the exchange rate - but that's another can of beans!

Thanks for the tips!

Wes

[fullbirdmusic]

I got the darn check engine light on again. You know what I think it was? When I start the car in place and let it run for just a few minutes only and then turn it off, if I don't take out the key after turning it off the CEL comes on. That's exactly what I did when I was washing and waxing this weekend.

Can anyone verify if this is normal? I live in Germany, but have a US spec car. Seems like such a silly problem. Thanks!

[odix]

I'll replicate what you did and let you know if I have the same problem -- if the CEL comes on my '04 Cayenne S. Was the vehicle warm from earlier use? Also, what's the ambient air temperature where you did this (wash and started)?

[RFM]

What kind of error you looking for, under any conditions, if you do not have the exact code (mentioned) Have i missed something?

[fullbirdmusic]

No, not missing anything. Here's the background and info I got today from my wife:

1. Last weekend I started the car in the driveway while I was polishing and waxing for just a few minutes. It was maybe 65deg F, about 15 deg C, I think. Turned the car off and left the key in it. Went back an hour later to start the car, and the CEL was lit. No other changes to the vehicle other than just sitting with the key in the ignition.

2. I've done that before with the exact same result, but there was an actual problem - gas cap needed to be replaced.

3. Had the car read out today (my wife did) and unfortunately didn't get the error codes. BUT - they were for the spark plugs and ignition coils (??). Light is out now, but the guy who read it out said it will probably come back on. Car is in need of a minor inspection/tuneup as it's at 88,000km.

My questions is this - are the ignition coils (I think that's what the guy called them; my wife doesn't remember that kind of stuff very well) expensive? I was going to make an appointment already this week for a tuneup/inspection at a friend's shop, so now I'm definitely not going to stall on that. But what is the danger of driving it now with spark plugs and new coils being needed?

Sorry for the confusion! :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by fullbirdmusic

[RFM]

I understand that the CEL is caused by misfires, however it does not explain that the CEL is lit after standstill with the key in the ignition, unless it is a coincidence. I would check the car with a PIWIS tool, especially the potential misfires and replaced the coils and plugs ASAP. The rest of the maintenance list can be done later on inclusive the serpentine belt at 90.000 Km. Take note that a belt replacement is not on the list, only a check, you must ask it by yourself and is very important to prevent issues.

[claudior]

No idea about the ignition coils pricing but I do remember having to replace almost ALL of them on mine (thank Lord, under warranty). On the 2006 V6s (the one I had) there was a design flaw where water accumulates somewhere on the top of the engine (thanks to the angle AND to the fact Porsche never imagined such thing would occur) and your coils get toasted. It could be the same on the V8s. This was only fixed from what I heard on the 2007 models.

As soon as my warranty was over (Jan, 2010) got rid of the car. Too many issues (nothing major other than the coils) on a car that I got brand new.

So got a Boxster instead. :-)

CR

[odix]

Glad to read the gas cap resolved your earlier problem -- I remember that from another post of yours.

I ran my '04 Cayenne S in the driveway to mimic your situation and no CEL -- but if your engine if off and the key is turned to the right one notch to power the accessories you'll have the steady CEL light (not flashing) -- but I'm not sure if that's what you mean. You also may simply need drive around at decent speeds to give the system time to cycle off the CEL. Stationary idling with a slight tailwind can flummox exhaust systems. Also use/consume high octane gas.

Search this site for coil pack info -- I think that's what you mean by ignition coils -- pricing is not bad and you can possibly do it yourself. Replace all eight at once -- and ideally spark plugs at the same time. I recall seeing step-by-step photos. I had my coil packs replaced last month but the vehicle is under CPO so no charge. The dealer said it's a common issue with early-model Cayennes (V6 and V8 but they see more V8's in with coil pack issues -- which may be because there are more S's and Turbos around than V6s) and not a big deal. What the dealer says mirrors what folks on Renntech say; coil pack are flawed by the new ones are better. I also have coil pack issues with my stock '03 VW GTI.

A few weeks after my Cayenne coil packs were changed I had the 60k (miles) service completed which included new plugs all around. All is well. When you search the coil pack issue be sure the replacement part numbers are most recent spec. Since you are in DE I'm sure you'll have access to the newest stock. You're at 55k (miles) so you can have the 60k service done early -- and most of what is needed to be done on the Porsche 60k service list you can do yourself. I had mine done at the dealer because under CPO they fixed other stuff. I posted info on the 60k service in another thread here on Renntech. Your friend's shop can do all of the 60k service components themselves. Loren posted the official Cayenne 60k checklist.

I have not heard or read about the coil pack issue being related to water issues that claudior noted -- but it has been a very rainy season in Northern California so who knows, that may play a part in why my coil packs cracked/failed. But in Porsche's defense, with all the testing and off-road prowess the Cayenne's had how could water have been an oversight? I think the coil pack problems are/were specific to the housings themselves and are heat-relaetd, not water but who knows? And the Cayenne is an amazing rain vecicle. I have 19" 275/45 Vredestein Sessanta's and they are stunning tires in dry and rain (not snow or cold) -- and it's truly amazing how stable and comfortable the Cayenne is on freeways in absolute pouring heavy rain.

As to driving with blown coil packs -- not an ideal thing to do. You can foul more than the plugs. That said, I had to drive 150 miles back to my home town after the miss-firing started. I kept the RPMs low and did not go over 55/60mph on the freeway to limp home. All coil packs were changed (two of the eight were cracked) and then the 60k service was completed. Dealer found no further issues and since then plenty of miles from city to freeway to fire roads no problem.

Edited March 25, 2010 by odix

[fullbirdmusic]

I understand that the CEL is caused by misfires, however it does not explain that the CEL is lit after standstill with the key in the ignition, unless it is a coincidence. I would check the car with a PIWIS tool, especially the potential misfires and replaced the coils and plugs ASAP. The rest of the maintenance list can be done later on inclusive the serpentine belt at 90.000 Km. Take note that a belt replacement is not on the list, only a check, you must ask it by yourself and is very important to prevent issues.

Right. I think it was a coincidence with the CEL. Incidentally (and somewhat intriguingly) the CEL turned on like that under the same circumstances at an earlier time - but there was a real exhaust system fault there, so nothing fishy going on. The dealer said that it's ok to drive until I can make it in for its 60k mi / 90k km service. It hasn't relit - if it does, it will be done sooner than later. I just don't have the time to make it in there before 2 weeks or so. Good thing is, I only have about 10km to work, so no heavy driving anyway. I'll replace the belt. Since I bought this car from an unknown previous owner, it's safer that way - thanks for the tip.

No idea about the ignition coils pricing but I do remember having to replace almost ALL of them on mine (thank Lord, under warranty). On the 2006 V6s (the one I had) there was a design flaw where water accumulates somewhere on the top of the engine (thanks to the angle AND to the fact Porsche never imagined such thing would occur) and your coils get toasted. It could be the same on the V8s. This was only fixed from what I heard on the 2007 models.

As soon as my warranty was over (Jan, 2010) got rid of the car. Too many issues (nothing major other than the coils) on a car that I got brand new.

So got a Boxster instead. :-)

CR

I think this issue is probably just the 60k mi service is coming up, and they just happened to go bad. But I'll have my buddy look and see if he sees anything like that out of the ordinary. Thanks for the tip!

PS - I'm gonna stick w/ my Cayenne ;-)

Glad to read the gas cap resolved your earlier problem -- I remember that from another post of yours.

I ran my '04 Cayenne S in the driveway to mimic your situation and no CEL -- but if your engine if off and the key is turned to the right one notch to power the accessories you'll have the steady CEL light (not flashing) -- but I'm not sure if that's what you mean. You also may simply need drive around at decent speeds to give the system time to cycle off the CEL. Stationary idling with a slight tailwind can flummox exhaust systems. Also use/consume high octane gas.

Yes, this is exactly what happened. But when my wife took it to get it read-out, the guy said that those items needed to be replaced. They weren't the same faults as when the fuel cap needed to be traded out. FYI - the US spec vehicles (according to the Porsche Centrum here) have the CEL connected to an air sensor in the fuel line. If too much air is leaving the system, it causes the fault. This is supposedly not the case on the Euro-spec vehicles. FYI.

Search this site for coil pack info -- I think that's what you mean by ignition coils -- pricing is not bad and you can possibly do it yourself. Replace all eight at once -- and ideally spark plugs at the same time. I recall seeing step-by-step photos.

I did exactly that and did find your posts and that exact info - it was really helpful. As well as the maintenance checklists - this forum is really great. I appreciate all the info-sharing, photos, and file uploads! Really worth it.

As to driving with blown coil packs -- not an ideal thing to do. You can foul more than the plugs. That said, I had to drive 150 miles back to my home town after the miss-firing started. I kept the RPMs low and did not go over 55/60mph on the freeway to limp home. All coil packs were changed (two of the eight were cracked) and then the 60k service was completed. Dealer found no further issues and since then plenty of miles from city to freeway to fire roads no problem.

I don't think they're blown, really. Unless only being blown causes that fault. Too bad I don't have the fault number. Next time I'll have to remind my wife to write them down - I only sent her there because she's 9 mos. pregnant and the car was SUPER clean and they're always more willing to help her than my ugly mug :-)

I'm definitely going to go in-depth on the 60k maintenance on not skimp on anything here - gotta a boy on the way! Any day now... :clapping:

Thanks for the outstanding info everyone. :renntech: